minnie Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 See link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/offshorefinance/8856287/Expats-should-be-warned-of-frozen-pensions-policy.html While this may not affect us who live in France while UK is in the EU it probably would if we were to come out of it. It may be worth considering signing the e-petition shown in this article. (Not sure if the link will show up in the post or whether it'll have to be copied and pasted into browser.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I agree Minnie, why should there be any difference in pension entitlement if you live in a none EU country? They all paid their contributions just as we have. I have signed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 This has been like this for donkey's years, why is it a story now? Believe me the UK cannot afford to pay everyone who leaves the shores to the far reaches of the planet, no one makes anyone 'leave'. If there was an anti e petition, I would sign it, not doubt about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 But if nobody left they would all have to be paid wouldn't they?Surely it's about simply receiving the benefits the right to which has been earned by the contributions paid.Does it make any difference whether the recipient lives in Twickenham or Timbuctoo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardener Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Of course no one makes any body leave. But it is still wrong that if you choose to retire abroad you are treated differently than if you remain in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 We'll have to disagree on this then, I believe it is far more complicated than just the pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 [quote user="Jay"]I agree Minnie, why should there be any difference in pension entitlement if you live in a none EU country? They all paid their contributions just as we have. I have signed it.[/quote]It's quite simple. It's a historical hangover from the days when expatriates didn't have the vote so it saved the goverment money if they didn't implement pension increases. Not fair but what do you expect from politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I can see an argument that increases are calculated on the basis of the changing cost of living in the UK, and that if you choose not to live there then those changing costs are irrelevant.I wonder if in the event of a recession pensions will be calculated down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 [quote user="NormanH"]I can see an argument that increases are calculated on the basis of the changing cost of living in the UK, and that if you choose not to live there then those changing costs are irrelevant.I wonder if in the event of a recession pensions will be calculated down...[/quote]With inflation in the UK now at 5% Pensions look likely to rise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 [quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="Jay"]I agree Minnie, why should there be any difference in pension entitlement if you live in a none EU country? They all paid their contributions just as we have. I have signed it.[/quote]It's quite simple. It's a historical hangover from the days when expatriates didn't have the vote so it saved the goverment money if they didn't implement pension increases. Not fair but what do you expect from politicians. [/quote]We emigrants still don't, at least not after 15 years away. The only right left to us is to be taxed at source on any UK government pension ....'Expatriates' presumably go back to their 'patrie' when their tour of duty is done, so it doesn't concern them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 [quote user="NormanH"][We emigrants still don't, at least not after 15 years away. The only right left to us is to be taxed at source on any UK government pension ....'Expatriates' presumably go back to their 'patrie' when their tour of duty is done, so it doesn't concern them [/quote]How true. A couple of years ago our government pension did not increase due to zero inflation in the September. They still take our tax though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Without knowing the actual numbers of emigrants involved, (to places outside EU), I still find it hard to believe that it is a significant number, compared to the number of people who remain in the UK, and therefore I can't believe that not paying pension increases to those people who live outside the EU is a major saving, but I DO believe it is very unfair, particularly when many (most?) of them will have paid their contributions. Daylight robbery in fact! They should get a refund! How about a petition for that. [Www]EDIT: And while I'm fired up, how about a refund of my contributions for the 12 years' contributions I paid when the number of years suddenly went down to 30 (I have 42)? If they want to make these charges less of a drain on the economy they should be increasing the number qualifying years, not reducing them! [:@]At the same time these "outside-EU" pensioners are not using any of the other health or social services which they've contributed to and which we see being abused by others every day in UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Ah Sid you did make me smile. Your national insurance is one deduction that covers so many things and your pension is but a part of it and probably not a great part of it. I sort of work it out like this. If the maximum voluntary contributions are £12.60 a week, then I could suppose that that is how much of someone's national insurance goes towards their pension? NI is rather more than that.Have you seen an often double paged french pay slip. Every last little thing has it's own contribution. My was I in France a long time, paying for what you don't need or use is solidarity. I understand that completely. When we left France I called the SS and asked why unemployment deductions were still being paid and the reply was solidarity. I argued, but you know, everyone rale's, and then just accept and having a moan about taxes and rale'ing is just what people do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 The logic as presented when the change was made was Living in Twickenham you contribute to the local economy and tax base and you money remains in the UK.In Timbuktu you do none of these things. The UK pension system was created on a pay as you go basis and as early as the 1960s Politicians on both sides of the House had identified that pensions could not be guaranteed against inflation. Which as inflation is broadly pension neutral means pensions could not be guaranteed atall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 [quote user="idun"] Believe me the UK cannot afford to pay everyone who leaves the shores to the far reaches of the planet, no one makes anyone 'leave'. If there was an anti e petition, I would sign it, not doubt about that. [/quote]I can't believe I'm reading that comment, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation.I worked, like Sid, for 42 years in the UK. I paid my way and never claimed anything (child allowance excepted). We moved to France to enjoy our retirement and live on only our small pensions.Change the rules, OK, then we will move back to the UK and like all the tens of thousands of foreigners who have descended on the UK from abroad we will demand, and probably get, a house, car, TV and 400+ pounds a week in bloody benefits without making any contribution whatsoever to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I agree 110% Bugsy.I have just been turned down from entering the health system because the new EU regs are are not in force yet.So it's private insurance again in January for 9 mths until I get my OAP.Deep joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I think Anton has it right, the government want to keep the money in the UK. When someone decides to leave the UK, they know the conditions, its up to them whether the pension makes a difference.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommier Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 It seems mean to refuse pensioners the increase in their pensions. OK, they aren't spending the money in the UK, but neither are they using the NHS, tax credits, sheltered housing etc.I don't think people should be penalised for retiring where they choose - and that's normally outside the EU to be with family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I have two friends who have left France today (coincidentally) for good as they can no longer afford to live here (in this case nothing to do with state pensions). They have been told by the local authority where they are going (to stay with a cousin on a temporary basis) that they will be found local authority funded housing. To my mind there is no doubt that if you squeeze people enough they'll just go back and fall on the state to provide for them if the alternative in their chosen country of residence is destitution. As a practical, cynical choice then whatever the morality of the thing, it's surely just cheaper to pay the pension which is due than have to provide state support in other ways, isn't it?Like all governments, the budgets just aren't joined up between departments and this is not properly thought through. So long as you can show the voters that you've saved money by screwing the disenfranchised then you've done your job as a politician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Coops, for me, your post says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnie Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Pommier has hit the nail on the head. By leaving UK, in many cases to join families abroad the expat pensioners are saving the UK government a fortune by not taking up resources such as NHS, Winter fuel, environmental costs etc. We would love to be able to join our only daughter in New Zealand. We have both worked and paid taxes for 40 years each. Yet our state pensions would be frozen if went there as residents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 [quote user="sweet 17"]Coops, for me, your post says it all.[/quote]Blimey. In fact, Sweets, I could talk forever on this subject (and on many others.) Thankfully for the rest of you, on a forum I am obliged to condense my opinions into a couple of sentences per post!(Ooops - that's 22,000 sentences, isn't it?[:-))]) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 But Coops, your friends left France where surely they did get the rises due as they were in an EU country ?. Sorry I just reread it, I see it had nothing to do with their pensionThey may well get a house, but when and what sort, and where ? In this area there may well be a period in a bed and breakfast before getting accomodation and people returning in such circumstances could find themselves at the end of a very long list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 In broad terms if you are not now a drain on the NHS you only become one in the six months or less prior to death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Only problem with that, AR, is that, when I was a mere slip of a girl of 33, a gypsy woman told me I'd live to 93!!![:-))]If her prediction turns out to be correct, I have a fair old wait before I cop it and I'm not sure there'll be an NHS left for me to drain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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