estate agents

[johnycarper]

Not sure if this is the correct place for this but just wondered why estate agents charge so much in France,we are thinking of moving and when contacted an agent their fees are up to 9%.. This makes a huge difference when you sell and it also makes you think about putting your property on higher to cover the costs,In the uk its only 1.5 to 2% agent fees.

[crack]

you don't pay fees when you sell your house only when you buy.

[PaulT]

I find this buyer pays the fees purely acaedemic - the buyer hands over a bunch of cash, the seller receives a lesser bunch of cash and the agent receives a smaller bunch of cash.

The buyer does not pay the agent directly it is all in the sum handed over to the notaire.

[YCCMB]

[quote user="johnycarper"]In the uk its only 1.5 to 2% agent fees.[/quote]

If that's what you've been quoted, you're being screwed in the UK as well!

[idun]

[quote user="crack"]you don't pay fees when you sell your house only when you buy.

[/quote]

No, as you simply get less for your property as the person who is buying has to pay not only the estate agents fees, but the notaires fees too, which has to be said are mainly taxes. The reason being that people have budgets.

To the OP, I negociated the estate agents fees that they were going to charge our prospective buyers, brought it down quite a bit.

[Alan Zoff]

Whether in France or UK, the answer is to haggle. You can't do anything about taxes but the agent's cut is generally negotiable.

A UK agent has offered me 1.25% through "the shop" or 0.5% for internet site only.

[woolybanana]

Up to 9%? Tell them to get whiffled, not a penny more than 5% and that is far too much. Ripping off JohnnyForeigner.

Start with Leboncoin and see how it goes.

[NormanH]

Sometimes there is a flat fee. A friend paid 5000€ on a sale of 75,000, and I have seen 2500€ quoted on a sale at 30,000.

It generally hovers around 7/8%..

They are both French so nationality has nothing to do with it. If anything English people bargain agents down more since they are used to UK agents' prices.

Of course it is a higher % for lower price properties since the work done and costs of advertsing etc  is not in proportion to the value of the property.

This may be one reason for French agents charging more since property prices are lower overall. Another is the high cost of staff because of social charges

There should be lower costs nowadays with the Internet, but I haven't seen it happen

[Alan Zoff]

Rural properties loved by Brits are a particular problem for agents as they can spend days driving them round the French countryside on sight-seeing trips to see houses that the seller has with perhaps several agents. Someone has to pay for their time. The internet helps buyers to identify possible dream homes but also produces a shopping list of properties for agents to visit with them.

As a buyer, it certainly helps to choose agents that quote all-inclusive prices, as the notaire's fees and taxes can make a big difference. And as a seller, you want an agent who presents the package, including the bottom line price, in a way that is attractive to buyers.  

[mint]

With our house, we know what we would sell it for so the agents just put their own percentage on top.  Seems to vary between 5 and 8%

It seems that nowadays, the sticking point is when people can't get a mortgage.  The agent brought a family around today and she told me that she'd had quite a few clients who had signed the compromis and then, 3 months down the line, they couldn't complete because the finance for the purchase was unavailable.

Of course, if someone needs a mortgage, then that is a genuine reason for a clause suspensive so they can legitimately pull out without penalty if a mortgage is not forthcoming.

We fully realise that these are difficult times and have priced the house accordingly.  In fact, even viewers have said what a bargain it is!

As with much of what goes on in life, a very great deal depends on Lady Luck. 

[Rabbie]

I have seen tables of charges in some French estate agents' windows. These seemed to start at about 9% for very cheap properties and steadily reduce to about 5% on properties over 400,000€. They do seem to much more expensive than UK commission rates but I am sure there is scope for negotiation especially on properties that have been on the market  for some time

[mint]

[quote user="Rabbie"]I have seen tables of charges in some French estate agents' windows. These seemed to start at about 9% for very cheap properties and steadily reduce to about 5% on properties over 400,000€. They do seem to much more expensive than UK commission rates but I am sure there is scope for negotiation especially on properties that have been on the market  for some time[/quote]

How do you make that out, Rabbie?

Surely, if a house has been on the market for a long time, it's one that "sticks" and is hard to sell for various reasons.  So, why would an agent charge less?[8-)]

[Rabbie]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Rabbie"]I have seen tables of charges in some French estate agents' windows. These seemed to start at about 9% for very cheap properties and steadily reduce to about 5% on properties over 400,000€. They do seem to much more expensive than UK commission rates but I am sure there is scope for negotiation especially on properties that have been on the market  for some time[/quote]

How do you make that out, Rabbie?

Surely, if a house has been on the market for a long time, it's one that "sticks" and is hard to sell for various reasons.  So, why would an agent charge less?[8-)]

[/quote]The biggest sticking reason is often the asking price. It would depend on what interest is being shown but given that the house is with several agents I (if I were an agent) would be prepared to reduce my fees if that would result in a sale. After all some money is better than none. In that situation I would expect the seller to reduce their asking price as well.

[mint]

OK, Rabs, now I understand.

One of the agents told me that she couldn't reduce her fees because she is an independent working for a company and she is obliged to stick with the fee structure!

Not sure that I buy that.  Might say something that of the 4 agents (excluding myself) who is "on the case", she is the only one who hasn't brought any clients to view.

Still, with the generous fees, you'd only have to sell 2 or 3 houses a year to earn a living?

[idun]

 I must say that our estate agent was not very happy when I said I wanted their charges to be reduced but accepted it and then did a few dirty rotten tricks on us, some of which we swerved, others cost us money..... may he rot!

[Lehaut]

Discount immobilier in Pontorson charge 3.95% as their standard rate, been around for years. Helped a friend sell his house with several agents in the area. The estimates of the selling price was about the same. He had to drop 30,0000 on the 140,000 price for a quick (3month) sale.

[mint]

Lehaut, did he then have to pay the agent's fee from the 110,000 that he received?

This is no idle question as I have received on offer and I just want a quick look ("comparison" is too stupid a word in this context) at the percentage of the drop?

Thanks.

PS:  nice little place Pontorson which I always thought was an unusual name for a French village.

[idun]

 sweet17, it is usual that the buyer pays all the fees including the notaire, so in this case the vendor should have got their 110.000€.

[mint]

Ah, thank you, id, for reminding me of that.  Still, no harm in establishing whether agent's fees were included or not in the price.

I am not in any great rush.  The house has been on the market less than 3 months and those months include Christmas and the New Year which you can't really count.

Interesting times for us but I am having to look at emails very carefully as I am getting a couple of very strange ones, including an offer from Paris where the person has never seen the house and one from Canada from someone wishing to give me a quarter of a million to donate to 3 charities of my choice![:-))]

[Gardengirl]

I bumped into a neighbour in our apartment block yesterday and was told they (he American, she English) are thinking of selling up, as they rarely manage to spend time there. They are planning selling privately and save what he was quoted as 7% with a local agent, as apartments sell very well in our block - although they are rather more expensive than others in our town.

It will be interesting to see what happens if they do decide to sell via an agent. The last one I know properly about here sold in September; it had been on the market through estate agents for a couple of years, with little interest. The English couple finally changed agents and it sold within a couple of weeks to an English woman who had missed out on another apartment locally. Their original agents were Sothebys, who have a branch in town, which I would have thought would only take on expensive properties - of which there are many around our area. They only showed maybe half a dozen people around the apartment - I certainly wouldn't have left it with them that long. I've met people at our gate who've come along to ask if apartments are available both to rent or to buy, so there's a lot of interest.

It sounds from what I've written that most owners in our block are anglophones; but we're only about 10 couples out of 52 owners, the rest being mainly French, but with Swiss, Belgians etc too.

Sweet, good luck with your prospective buyers - if that works out as an adequate offer on your house; as you say, it's not been on the market for long.

[mint]

Thank you, GG, for the good wishes.

This is becoming an interesting time for us.  Would have sold within 2 weeks but we had  problems with neighbours but those, whilst not entirely sorted, are now much more contained.

It was a real shame as our house suited the people who wanted it down to the ground (literally) as they were keen on our terrain for their small flock of sheep.  Oh, to have sheep to keep the grass under control![:D]

Perhaps I should get hold of some sheep myself and let them come as extras to go with the house?[:D][:D]

[Lehaut]

Sweet17, the buyers paid the agents commision on the lower price. In the end it was not sold through the Pontorson agents, but through a local Notaire who was also advertising the property.

[mint]

Thank you for clarifying that, Lehaut. 

I have just put the phone down on a woman who came with the agent, then subsequently emailed me direct through the leboncoin site.  I explained that I couldn't deal with her direct as she'd come via the agent and that any negotiated price would have to make allowance for the agent's fees.

She said, but I never engaged the services of the agent and we didn't sign a bon de visite.

I ask you![:-))]  Not sure if she was devious or stupid......

After all that, the agent sent an email with a list of all the things that they thought needed to be done on the property and their offer.  I wrote back very sweetly, as befits my name ([:D]), and said simply that the offer didn't merit discussion, cordialement, etc.

[andyh4]

[quote user="idun"][quote user="crack"]you don't pay fees when you sell your house only when you buy.

[/quote]

No, as you simply get less for your property as the person who is buying has to pay not only the estate agents fees, but the notaires fees too, which has to be said are mainly taxes. The reason being that people have budgets.

To the OP, I negociated the estate agents fees that they were going to charge our prospective buyers, brought it down quite a bit.

[/quote]

But that is making an unfair comparison Idun. In the UK the buyer has land registry fees and both sides have conveyancing costs.

[mint]

One main observation which is self-evident but which I, for one, tend to lose sight of is this:

The agent works for the interests of neither seller nor buyer but for his or her own self-interest.  There, just said that as a reminder to myself as I dare say nobody else needs reminding.