Bloo*y school buses

[Chancer]

There is only one that I  cross regularly and I always slow to a virtual halt and look both ways as well Wooly, its a minor road and the left turn just before it is now a stop so I am not travelling fast but even in the other direction I stop, not defying anyone but its human nature to sneak a peak unless you are a smartphone user crossing the road.

 

There are a few PàD's locally that because they are an acute angle I have to take my priorité blind whilst muttering Inshallah.

 

I havn't looked at the détails of the crossing but what often happens is that in traffic a long vehicle like a bus will cross before he has enough length ahead for a safe exit, the traffic stops and a tragedy occurs.

 

Iknow if I were in charge of Young passengers I would look both ways and ahead to make sure the exit was clear.

 

Another possibility is the old "un train peut en cacher un autre", the "en" always seems malplaced in that phrase.

[nomoss]

There is quite a well balanced report here [url]https://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/accident/accident-de-car-dans-les-pyrenees-orientales/collision-mortelle-a-millas-les-differentes-versions-autour-des-barrieres-de-securite-du-passage-a-niveau_2516849.html[/url]

Following the obvious route from the school to Saint-Féliu, the bus would have been coming from the right in the picture, having turned left onto the road only 25 metres from the crossing.

EDIT: It is quite obvious from the remains of the barrier on the right of the picture, the one on the carriageway that the bus should have been on, that something hit it, indicating that it must have been at least partly down.

I can't believe that dash cameras are not compulsory on public transport, especially on school buses, which should also have interior cameras.

[andyh4]

I tend to agree about the damaged barrier. The only slight reservation I have is that it looks as if the flashing light post has been hit and could it be that the barrier was damaged at the same time? Presumably this by the coach being dragged by the train. Where the remains of the barrier are will be important in the investigation methinks.

[Chancer]

Even ignoring that most witnesses seem to have said the barrier was down even those who say it was up said that the bus stopped on the crossing, that is the most telling thing.

 

Horrific as it is to see the bus cut in half those who survived owe their lives to that.

[nomoss]

On further comparison of the newspaper picture in the link above with the view on Google Earth, it now seems to me that the twisted metal to the right of the picture is the remains of the signal light structure, not the barrier, and that the barrier and its base is completely gone.

One relevant comment I read said that the barriers are "held up by an electric current", presumably via an electromagnet, so that if the power fails they automatically fall down under their own weight, which seems a very reasonable design.

A local resident said that sometimes the barriers were down with no warning lights showing and no train coming, which suggests that there were occasional power failures causing this.

Makes me wonder if, in such a case, people made a large detour to get beyond the crossing, or whether some who used it regularly got into the habit of crossing between the barriers when they were obviously down due to a power failure.

It is a pretty straight line on each side of the crossing, with a visibility of at least 150 metres in the direction from which the train came. At 80 km per hour (22 metres per second), which was a reported train speed I saw (probably its maximum), it would have taken the train 6 or 7 seconds to cover that distance, plenty of time to get over the crossing, although most people woulñdn't cross if they saw a train that far away. Just observing.

[Harnser]

A witness who was on the bus following behind the one that was hit by the train has said:-

Clarisse was aboard the bus that followed the one that was mowed down by a TER Thursday, December 14 in Millas (Pyrénées-Orientales) and therefore attended the accident. "We were getting off the bus and that's when we saw that the train was coming in, the gates were not lowered, there was no flashing light and the train hit the bus. noise.

https://actu.orange.fr/societe/fait-divers/accident-de-millas-une-collegienne-temoigne-de-la-collision-magic-CNT000000UbP5m.html

[Pommier]

https://www.facebook.com/alain.franchi.3/videos/1304885296325041/

[nomoss]

As some people have pointed out in the comments, it is not in France, and there is a a guard for the crossing.

He opens his door and emerges just as the train is passing, presumably starts to close the gates (too late), then re-opens them after the train has passed, goes back inside and shuts the door.

If you look closely and pause the video a few times, you can see him operate the control on the side of the hut, on his right.

He was probably sitting in his hut to keep out of the cold and didn't see the train coming because of the fog.

So it is almost certainly not even an automatic crossing, and the guard simply failed to close it in time.

Take care. There are many fake videos and fake witness statements circulating about this accident.

[Chancer]

All we can say with certainty about that video is that it was not ANOther driving the vehicle [:D]

[nomoss]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]I don't see the point of your post Wooly.

Nobody knows what happened here.

What is your problem with school buses ?[/quote]

Our problem with school buses is that the last time our kids rode on one (not in France), they returned to the house describing what fun everyone on board had when the driver stalled the bus on a (steep) hill, and got all the kids out behind it to push-start it.

Definitely the last time for us, in any country.

[BritinBretagne]

[quote user="nomoss"][quote user="alittlebitfrench"]I don't see the point of your post Wooly.

Nobody knows what happened here.

What is your problem with school buses ?[/quote]

Our problem with school buses is that the last time our kids rode on one (not in France), they returned to the house describing what fun everyone on board had when the driver stalled the bus on a (steep) hill, and got all the kids out behind it to push-start it.

Definitely the last time for us, in any country.

[/quote]

Now I understand. One bad memory so everyone who does the same job is tarred for live. Unbelievable!

[nomoss]

Not tarring anyone, it's just our choice.

However, living, as we do, on a main road 250 metres from the local college, we see school buses passing our house regularly, as well as on the nearby roads.

In my opinion the habits of some of the drivers leave a lot to be desired, and since one cannot choose which bus/driver is in charge of one's children I would still make the same choice.

[Chancer]

Unbelievable or too unreal to believe?

 

Is there a subtle distinction between them?

[NormanH]

The latest development:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2017/12/20/01016-20171220ARTFIG00143-accident-de-millas-les-enqueteurs-interrogent-de-nouveau-la-conductrice-du-bus.php

[nomoss]

The authorities don't seem to be shining in their treatment of the families

[url]http://www.rtl.fr/actu/conso/millas-les-familles-ont-ete-totalement-abandonnees-selon-l-une-de-leurs-avocates-7791563970?utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_medium=&utm_source=Newsletter+Quotidienne+Info[/url]

[Chancer]

Aside from the cost of putting CCTV on all passages à niveau it would cost a cup of tea and a bun to put a dash cam in all the rams, you can buy them for €11 delivered from China.

 

Most lorry drivers put them in their cabs even if they are employed and will transfer them from one vehicle to another, they do this to protect themselves from blame where there are no witnesses, cash for crash scams, migrant attacks etc, if I drove for a living especially a bus or a train I would use one all the time.

[Jonzjob]

I have just found this bit of video and I wonder??? Just 2 seconds earlier would have made all the difference to that driver and pax me-thinks.

Have a little gander at the one that follows too.

[andyh4]

As pointed out about 4 pages ago JJ this is not France and it looks very much like a manually "controlled" crossing.

[nomoss]

This seems to be the most recent information. It does not look good for the bus driver.

[url]http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2018/01/19/01016-20180119ARTFIG00052-accident-de-millas-l-enquete-accable-la-conductrice.php[/url]

[Chancer]

son avocat, Me Jean Codognès, indiquait au Figaro avoir mandaté ses propres experts. «Ce qui nous intrigue, c'est à quel moment le train a freiné et à quel moment le conducteur de la locomotive a appuyé sur le frein d'urgence, expliquait-il. Il y a des choses à vérifier là-dessus car les relevés techniques sont un peu brumeux.»

 

That just about sums up the incompetence of the overpaid avocats and experts that flourish in the French legal system.

 

The train would have taken a mile or more to stop, even Trump's Tweets show more signs of intelligence and common sense, more needless pain for the families of the victims.

[BritinBretagne]

Do you have a source for your information or is that just your opinion against the Frenchman’s?

[andyh4]

Well I don't now if it would take a mile to brake from the reported 80-90kph but it would have been a very substantial distance. Steel wheels on steel rails do not stop like rubber on tarmac.

This was brought home to me when they were preparing for the last TGV speed record just before the Ligne Est was opened. On one of the practice sessions they had the unit wound up to around 500kph. A piece of loose ballast from the track was dislodged and bounced up severing the compressed air brake pipe. This caused the brakes to go into emergency application. The TGV came to a stand 15000 metres further down the track - yes that's right 15km and with full emergency braking.

As Chancer suggests just an attempt by a stupid lawyer to get his client off or at least spread the blame.

[nomoss]

[quote user="BritinBretagne"]Do you have a source for your information or is that just your opinion against the Frenchman’s?[/quote]

What exactly do you gather the "Frenchman's" opinion to be?

All I read is that he thinks the records are "a bit foggy"

Not much of an opinion to agree or disagree with.

[nomoss]

As some on here seem to have no idea how long it takes a train to stop, here is a short video

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8LWD2NGMoE[/url]

[alittlebitfrench]

I find this an uncomfortable thread to read.

Stop speculating. Kids died here.