SAVE YOUR WINTER FUEL PAYMENT

[krusty]

British Expats in France Cyprus and Spain have been given notice, that as from September 2015, they will no longer be eligible to claim Winter Fuel Payments from the British Government.

We have been sent a possible loophole in the Statutory Instrument, the piece of legislation that the British Government has used to take away the Winter Fuel Payment.

There is a parliamentary technique which is rarely used to halt the implementation of the Statutory Instrument, otherwise known as a (prayer). It has to be activated within 40 days of the tabling of the Statutory Instrument.

In order to have a chance of overturning the Statutory Instrument, the clerk must receive a large number of submissions, then action may be taken to stop the implementation.

http://www.cyprusexpat.co.uk/blog/read/id:5627/british-expats-in-cyprus-may-have-found-a-loophole-to-keep-their-winter-fuel-payments

[idun]

Ah come on Krusty, you have moved to Cyprus. The government in the UK is doing some terrible things to people at the moment, and those who chose to move to what should be a very mild all the year round and usually is, really want a heating allowance that was brought in to help pensioners living in the UK where it does get cold.

Shaking head, dear me!

[andyh4]

But equally Idun, this is a French Forum and as you well know, as a former resident of RA, large parts of France end up being a lot colder than anywhere in the UK. Some pensioners actually do need this money. If it is such an issue, then it should become means tested - for all.

[idun]

I moved to the Alpes when I moved to France, did I know that it would be colder than the UK......... well, I'm not the brightest spark around, but I did. AND that we would have been responsible for keeping our home warm, no matter the age.

I could have moved to somewhere warm, and would I have said that someone should have paid for my aircon? Because that is the other side of the argument, because once you move to somewhere really warm, ie Cyprus, where the winter temperature is what I could call 'summer' in the north of England, then I feel that the michael is being royally taken as much as it would be if I had moved to some little village up near an Alpine glacier with very cold winters.

As I keep droning on, no one makes us leave the UK. We chose, so get on with one's choices and stop expecting stuff that was done for our native shores and not even mention the extreme warm or cold, wheresoever else we chose to live. WE CHOSE!

As I said, things have been cut back a lot in the UK, with horrible malicious and malevolent ministers like IDS aided and abetted by his side kick SW, then it is a wonder work houses have not been reopened. So swanning off to one's Alpine retreat or island haven will never wash it with me.

[woolybanana]

Well, work houses for those who do not get and keep jobs might be a good idea, until they learn that welfare is only for people who need it.

However after that piece of Normanesque vitriol, my reason for trying to keep the fuel allowance is simply that the government lied about the winter temperatures in France in order to get their way. As most already know, they included the figures from the DUM DUMS which made the average in France very much warmer.

Not that I am convinced that we should have them anyway.

[CSV]

[quote user="idun"]We chose, so get on with one's choices and stop expecting stuff that was done for our native shores and not even mention the extreme warm or cold, wheresoever else we chose to live. WE CHOSE!

[/quote]

I think you're missing the point. You could never have claimed the allowance, because when it was introduced, people already living abroad were not entitled to claim.

But people resident in the UK were entitled to claim if they moved abroad, after they had been paid at least once. Now , for whatever reason, they are seeking to cut costs and people who were once entitled no longer are.

Excerpt from House of Commons Library : Winter Fuel Payments update

                                                                       Standard Note: SN06019

                                                                       Last updated: 1 November 2013

                                                                       Author: Steven Kennedy

                                                                       Section Social Policy Section

6.1

Winter Fuel Payments for people resident abroad

The Winter Fuel Payment was not originally payable to people resident abroad, but following

discussions with the European Commission the Government accepted in 2002 that it came

within the scope of EC regulations on the co-ordination of social security systems and was

therefore “exportable” within the European Economic Area (EEA). 31 So people who qualified

for the Winter Fuel Payment in Britain could continue to receive it if they moved to another

EEA country. However, they could not claim it for the first time if they were already living

abroad. In 2011-12, 74,685 persons resident abroad received a Winter Fuel Payment.

Almost half (33,815) were in Spain, followed by France (18,155), the Republic of Ireland

(7,155) and Cyprus (5,420). In total, £12.8 million was paid to people resident in other EEA

states in 2011-12. 32

[woolybanana]

I claimed it for the first time living abroad

[vette]

Me too. This year is my second year of receiving it after having lived here for 9 years!

[Jay]

[quote user="idun"]....... well, I'm not the brightest spark around............

[/quote]

Well you said it, I don't think anyone would dispute that.

Nobody forced you to move to the North of England. I'd bet you would not refuse £100 to help with your fuel costs even if you lived in Cyprus. In any case it doesn't look particularly hot there at the moment, I imagine krusty will have his heating on.

http://www.cyprus-weather.org/

There is an e-petition to sign for those who think we should retain the WFA. http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/73297

[idun]

idun said 'well, I'm not the brightest spark around'.....

obviously I am not the only one. The allowance is £200, even 'I' know that! And it goes up after a certain age.

[Jay]

[quote user="idun"]idun said 'well, I'm not the brightest spark around'.....

obviously I am not the only one. The allowance is £200, even 'I' know that! And it goes up after a certain age.

[/quote]

Is that so? Well I only get £100, perhaps you are not always right.

[suein56]

[quote user="Jay"]In any case it doesn't look particularly hot there at the moment, I imagine krusty will have his heating on.

[/quote]

Perhaps he has his heating on today but he probably won't be needing it on on Sunday and next week when the temps will be positively springlike for him.

http://www.cyprus-weather.org/paphos-weather-forecast/

It is just jealousy on my part as it is chilly, blowy and damp here in Morbihan today.

Sue [;-)]

[idun]

No one living at home 'just' gets £100 for the household, for anyone who doesn't realise, all households with a qualifying pensioner,  get a minimum of £200 and once over 80, it is more. That is the way it is at the moment, even when living hors UK.

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/what-youll-get

[Jay]

[quote user="idun"]No one living at home 'just' gets £100 for the household, for anyone who doesn't realise, all households with a qualifying pensioner,  get a minimum of £200 and once over 80, it is more. That is the way it is at the moment, even when living hors UK.

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/what-youll-get

[/quote]

I don't live with UK hors. Who said anything about household? I get £100 and my wife gets £100, totally independent. There again I could live in a care home, who are you to know?. That's what it says on your link as well. https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/what-youll-get

[AnOther]

[quote user="idun"]I could have moved to somewhere warm, and would I have said that someone should have paid for my aircon?[/quote]Funny you should say that because on one of the petition sites (neat move that BTW, running entirely separate petitions and diluting the impact) somebody from Spain can be found complaining quite genuinely that because it's hot in the Summer they deserve a fuel allowance to pay for their aircon - priceless !

[NickP]

Never mind Idun, let's hope they keep the WFA it'll help them pay for the postage to the UK to complain about fat people getting benefits. [:D]

[PaulT]

Was not the payment originally £400?

Now if it was and they can reduce it then surely they can change it so that only those resident in the UK can claim it.

Wonder how worried UK politicians will be by a petition by people who no longer live in the UK?

[idun]

[quote user="Jay"][quote user="idun"]No one living at home 'just' gets £100 for the household, for anyone who doesn't realise, all households with a qualifying pensioner,  get a minimum of £200 and once over 80, it is more. That is the way it is at the moment, even when living hors UK.

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/what-youll-get

[/quote]

I don't live with UK hors. Who said anything about household? I get £100 and my wife gets £100, totally independent. There again I could live in a care home, who are you to know?. That's what it says on your link as well. https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/what-youll-get

[/quote]

Yes, it is household based, you haven't understood that. IF you lived alone, and in all honesty I'm actually surprised that you don't, you would get £200 all to yourself. Now wouldn't that be nice as you appear to appreciate living so independently already. And on that, I'm out.

[idun]

[quote user="PaulT"]Was not the payment originally £400?

Now if it was and they can reduce it then surely they can change it so that only those resident in the UK can claim it.

Wonder how worried UK politicians will be by a petition by people who no longer live in the UK?[/quote]

I don't remember it ever being £400 although there are some very cold weather allowances that could boost it. My Dad, has had £300 a year since he was 80, good job especially these days, he, like my friends' parents who are also over 90 seem to need to live in incredibly hot homes and feels cold when the temperature is below 25°c. Maybe they should move to Cyprus?[Www]

[NormanH]

There always seems to be confusion on this between the Winter Fuel Payment which could be said is intended to help the extra cost of heating in the winter where ever you live,  and cold weather payments which are specifically targeted at cold conditions

https://www.gov.uk/cold-weather-payment/overview

[mint]

Thank you for pointing out the distinction, Norman and you are right, people do seem confused about TWO very separate payments.

I don't think people who live elsewhere than the UK expect cold weather payment as that is a discretionary benefit and, as has been pointed out, you choose where you live.

As far as WFP is concerned, that was brought in because there were some years when the pension increases were very low.  This was back in the days when pensions were pegged to inflation.  I think someone told me that there was a year when the increase was something like 75 pence a week (or it could even be a month, I cannot be sure at this moment).

They then gave WFP as a way to make it up to pensioners and people have come to look upon it as part of the old age pension.  As part of the old age pension, it should, of course, be exportable and it shouldn't matter where you live in order to receive it.

I don't think it's a lot of money to the government but it IS a very handy sum to retired people who can no longer boost their income through work.  It's just plain mean.

Meanwhile a member of the House of Lords can claim over 300 pounds a day just by going through the doors and virtually out again and never even have to speak on anything.

Of course, soft targets are so much easier to hit, aren't they?

[Judith]

All I can say is that our heating bills now (and yes we do live in the sunny south of France!) are much  higher than they ever were in London even allowing for the fact that we do have a larger place here .... OH likes to be warm (a bit like Idun's father and mine) and he always wants the heating on  as he feels the cold.  That's nothing to do with location but purely age ... we are already well down our log store this year ...and it's been pretty mild actually ....

As you say Mint, soft targets indeed.

[krusty]

Wonder how worried UK politicians will be by a petition by people who no longer live in the UK?[

I do not think they will be worried , but we can still vote , and there are lots of us .

[NormanH]

Is this a deliberate red rag??? ....[:D]

[idun]

Ah NH, I'm sure it wasn't really a red rag, but it is true that many posters still have not been in France that long and can take advantage of still voting in the UK.

Whatever the government calls the extra payment for cold weather, 'people' around here at least, still call it winter fuel, because I suppose that is what they use it for, to pay to keep their homes warm when it gets extra cold. As long as it goes into the account, I reckon they wouldn't care what they called it. I know it isn't the same thing, just needed by some.