Gluestick Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Not at all a good decision!Think of my lost profits!And in any case, the plant would have been obsolete by 1991: and we could have gone again!Pah![:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 [quote user="Gluestick"]Not at all a good decision!Think of my lost profits!And in any case, the plant would have been obsolete by 1991: and we could have gone again!Pah![:)][/quote]Greed is a terrible thing.It would have been killed by maintenance costs by 1985 (at the latest)MSF were designed against a 25 year life, then you do a life extension programme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Nawh!Same kit as was being used in all HM's nuke subs, cruise liners, brackish water wells in Southern Sain and best of all, Saudia.Anyway, I could live with a 4-5 year project re-cycle time.Bearing in mind that the feedstock was straight from the harbour, saline, and RO dumped 40% straight back, whereas MSF leaves serious deposits and RO only needs membranes replacing periodically, the HP pumps servicing and the sand bed filters renewed.Plenty of sand and plenty of energy!And all those lovely spares and service charges too!As Gordon Geko said, "Greed is good!"[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassis Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Is this " Bickering Thread" like a word association test?Feel free to disgaree.Apples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Apalls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinfrance Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 [quote user="cassis"]Is this " Bickering Thread" like a word association test?Feel free to disgaree.Apples.[/quote]Away man It`s a boys club. They can keep it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassis Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Aye, but where can they keep it? Pears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Blowing Bubbles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 [quote user="Gluestick"]Nawh!Same kit as was being used in all HM's nuke subs, cruise liners, brackish water wells in Southern Sain and best of all, Saudia.Anyway, I could live with a 4-5 year project re-cycle time.Bearing in mind that the feedstock was straight from the harbour, saline, and RO dumped 40% straight back, whereas MSF leaves serious deposits and RO only needs membranes replacing periodically, the HP pumps servicing and the sand bed filters renewed.Plenty of sand and plenty of energy!And all those lovely spares and service charges too!As Gordon Geko said, "Greed is good!"[:D] [/quote]Gluey,RO plantsare fine for very small installations and are ok for brackish water and cool“blue” water. (ships and submarines). In high TDS, inshore, warm water they aremuch less viable. In particular, the Gulf has a high probability of oilcontamination which, as you know, is instant death to membranes. Coupled with aTDS of 45,000+ means your sand filters just don’t do it. Hence theneed for DAF units, flocculants, DMF units and cartridge filters all to get theright SDI for membrane inlet, plus of course the associated expensive chemicalpre-treatment, including knocking out the chlorine which is necessary to stopthe beasties growing in the sea water inlet. The bestrecovery ratio on sea water is c.40%, we are working on 38% so, at best, youare rejecting 60% of your inlet flow. Its better than MSF / MED admittedly butit comes with a very high risk and pre-treatment cost.Serious deposits from MSF ??????? Its brine, OK, its 60,000++ TDS but RO plants rejectbrine also, plus the reject chemicals, backwash debris etc. MSF plantsin particular and MED to a lesser extent are pretty bomb proof and don’t needany more specialised maintenance than is normally available in any powerstation environment. How muchbetter to use a thermal plant (MED these days) where your station overallthermal efficiency is high because you are extracting waste heat in the gasturbine exhausts that could otherwise be, well, wasted ! Particularly if youintegrate the plant with a back pressure steam turbine. Argue yourway out of that one!!!! [:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Joshing aside, Steve, there are still a lot of RO plants running/going in.Whilst this outfit do list MSF (in addition to other technologies), it does not appear as an app. on their ME project list.................here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I agree GS, there are. My own major projects are a 5 migpd and a 3 migpd SWRO installation, both by CH2MHill, they are cheap to buy and hence offer short term (IMHO) advantages. I dont believe they are the "silver bullet" for water plants, at least not for 'less than clean' sea water.The plants on the list are, in the main, quite small, particularly in comparison with my recent 2 x 8 migpd MED units by SIDEM. Anything less than 5 million a day is small these days (hotels and ships apart). I consider my 3 migpd plant a bit of a side show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I say chaps, just like to remind you that this is the bickering thread. You two seem to be getting on far too well.Innit [6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Not only that, Cat, they are talking esoteric boys' toys which I, for one, do not understand a word of. Isn't there somewhere in the rules about posting in such a way as to prevent others from joining in? If there isn't, I think they should invent one.Come on, Gluey and Steve, knock it off, will you?[:P]Come out and play, or even fight, but don't be mean and keep it all to yourselves, hein? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Anyway, speaking (as they were) about water...I'm awfully glad that it's just started raining again. I just love the rain, we don't get nearly enough of it, it cheers me up no end every time the sky darkens and the distant rumble of thunder makes the windows rattle.Oh look! Lighteni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 You re right sweet17; let's bicker between gals !!!! [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Cat, you're a cat, remember? You're not supposed to like the rain. You'd best come in through your cat flap or you'll be struck by that lightning and it would serve you right for pretending you like the rain, OK?As for you, Frenchie, you'll have to bicker in English as the only remotely rude thing I can say in French is Va-t-en! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayJay Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 [quote user="Cat"]Oh look! Lighteni[/quote]Well Cat, looks like the lightning struck! [blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Gee, yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 [quote user="sweet 17"]Cat, you're a cat, remember? You're not supposed to like the rain. You'd best come in through your cat flap or you'll be struck by that lightning and it would serve you right for pretending you like the rain, OK?[/quote]Cat was trying: problem is her electronic cat collar which only allows Cat in was badly affected by static: and stopped working! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Who you laughing at fish-face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 No one, Guv.In was just chasing meself![IMG]http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i278/Michaeleff/cat001.gif[/IMG] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 [quote user="sweet 17"]Not only that, Cat, they are talking esoteric boys' toys which I, for one, do not understand a word of. Isn't there somewhere in the rules about posting in such a way as to prevent others from joining in? If there isn't, I think they should invent one.Come on, Gluey and Steve, knock it off, will you?[:P]Come out and play, or even fight, but don't be mean and keep it all to yourselves, hein?[/quote]Not boy's toys at all, girls can play too.A leading figure in the desal world is a woman, Lisa Henthorne, she is also "chairperson" of the World Desalination Association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassis Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 [quote user="powerdesal"]I agree GS, there are. My own major projects are a 5 migpd and a 3 migpd SWRO installation, both by CH2MHill, they are cheap to buy and hence offer short term (IMHO) advantages. I dont believe they are the "silver bullet" for water plants, at least not for 'less than clean' sea water.The plants on the list are, in the main, quite small, particularly in comparison with my recent 2 x 8 migpd MED units by SIDEM. Anything less than 5 million a day is small these days (hotels and ships apart). I consider my 3 migpd plant a bit of a side show.[/quote]Here's a water plant. Better than a crummy 8 migpd MED water plant. Pah! [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Flat_floating_on_water_plant.JPG/800px-Flat_floating_on_water_plant.JPG[/IMG] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 [quote user="sweet 17"]Come out and play, or even fight, but don't be mean and keep it all to yourselves, hein?[/quote]No probs, Sweets.Wot yer wanna fight about?[blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 [quote user="cassis"]Here's a water plant. Better than a crummy 8 migpd MED water plant. Pah! [/quote]Rarely have water lillies in the hotter bits of the Gulf States, Cassis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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