NORTHERN IRELAND

[hakunamatata]

What on earth is going on?  Is it all going to go to pot again?  Very sad news about Northern Ireland. They say it is only a very small minority who are causing the trouble, but they say that about Afghanistan as well, The world has really gone mad, why on earth can we not all live happily together? 

[Iceni]

Hopefully with Martin McG against them those responsible will soon be looking for kneecap transplants.

John

[hakunamatata]

[:D] I cant say what I would like to do to him! I would be banned! How he has the B**ls to stand there and pontificate I really do not know

[Frenchie]

Sad news about Northern Ireland indeed.

I was surprised no one had commented.

 

[Ron Avery]

Maybe too many people have commented already.  Some of the comments and opinions, mostly from the 24 hour news media seem to me to be trying to make sure that these murdering  scum achieve their objectives in the name of a "story".  These scum want to destroy the fragile peace between the communities and stir up religeous hatred which in turn they hope will bring down the power sharing government.

Makes you wonder just who has anything to gain by these actions as it has appeared to cement the resolve to continue the peace and prosperity of NI, at least within the NI government.

 McGuiness has the balls to stand up and condemn these murderers because he happens to be the elected deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland and his stance should be welcomed not condemned.[:@]

[RicandJo]

I spent 4 years as a soldier in N. Ireland during the period when the IRA were actively shooting down helicopters and the current situation deeply saddens me.

I sincerely hope there will not be a return to the bloody tit for tat murders we have seen in the past, but it is very very easy to slide down that slippery slope.

[hakunamatata]

It amazes me how easily people forgive and forget. We have released the majority of the gunmen back into society and the leaders of the IRA McG and Adams are now sitting in parliament.  It beggars belief but thats ONLY my opinion.[8-)]

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

 McGuiness has the balls to stand up and condemn these murderers because he happens to be the elected deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland and his stance should be welcomed not condemned.[:@]

[/quote]

Oh the joy of a short memory (not a dig at you Ron)[:)]....................so prevalent in todays society.

It seems that in politics no-one is allowed to remember or quote the recent past anymore.

[Framboise]

Likewise its ok for muslim protesters to jeer and heckle soldiers returning from Afghanistan, yet they get police protection from other protesters supporting the soldiers.

NI has always been simmerring even through "Peace".   It only takes the action of a single errant figure to ignite bad-feeling again and this is what inevitably happens.

McGuinness.  The proverbial Poacher-turned-gamekeeper, but  I doubt he can keep a lid on this escalating out of control for all his empty words, and will Bliar return all his accolades for bringing "Peace" to NI.   Also doubtful. 

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Framboise"]

Poacher-turned-gamekeeper, but  I doubt he can keep a lid on this escalating out of control for all his empty words, and will Bliar return all his accolades for bringing "Peace" to NI.   Also doubtful. 

[/quote]

Does it really stick in your throat that peace was achieved in N, Ireland through the efforts of a labour government and others from the US , that you have to predict a return to the troubles to belittle those efforts?? 

Lets hope the gunmen don't read your incisive summary of the situation eh???[:@]

[Framboise]

What do you know anyway?     Oh sorry, you  are The Expert in Everything are'nt you?

And as to "predict", how many times throughout the history of The Troubles in Ireland has this all kicked-off again through the actions of a small group who do not want "PEACE" of any sort, let alone one brokered by the US and labour????     Proven point in question here, all quiet for a long time then bang.   Literally.

Yes is does stick in my throat that soldiers (all someone's precious sons) are murdered like this, likewise other people going about their lives, yet the govts blather-on endlessly about acheiving a peace that it is perfectly plain that a hardcore of lunatics do not want as it suits them otherwise.    Its Their Piece of Power - to destroy those who want a peaceful solution.    Rather acheived it haven't they????  [:@]

 

[Quillan]

[quote user="Ron Avery"][quote user="Framboise"]

Poacher-turned-gamekeeper, but  I doubt he can keep a lid on this escalating out of control for all his empty words, and will Bliar return all his accolades for bringing "Peace" to NI.   Also doubtful. 

[/quote]

Does it really stick in your throat that peace was achieved in N, Ireland through the efforts of a labour government and others from the US , that you have to predict a return to the troubles to belittle those efforts?? 

Lets hope the gunmen don't read your incisive summary of the situation eh???[:@]

[/quote]

Er Ron get your facts right please. The Mitchel report was requested by John Major and most of the work was done by him and Thatcher. The "Framework Documents" which were a direct result of the Mitchel report were written under Major but Sein Fein or more to the point Adams and McGuinness deliberately delayed the signing until after the election in 2006, they signed an unchanged copy in May 2006 (under the New Labour Government, Blair was the co-signature). This framework set down how the destruction of the IRA weapons would be carried out as well as the the withdrawal time span for troops to be removed and of course the setting up of a proper NI parliament.

Until the Mitchel report except for the visit to Belfast by Bill Clinton the then US President in November 1995 the US had no involvement other than to allow fund raising activities to take place in the US (Noraid) to arm IRA terrorists. Strangely they never offered in all this time to mediate or put peace keeping troops in to Northern Ireland.

By many the real reason the IRA/ Sein Fein went to the peace table was because of the famous incident where the two off duty army guys got surrounded, removed from their car and physically beaten to death and ripped apart, limb from limb by a massive mob. It was taped and shown on worldwide TV and was undefendable. This resulted in the funds raised by Noraid to virtually dry up, the intial result was for the IRA to step up its bank robbery, drug running and prostitution operations which in turn meant they lost face with the catholic community in Ireland. It also became more difficult as bank by then had far better protection so basically the IRA ran out of money.

[Ron Avery]

Don't entirely agree  wth your assessment of why Sein Fein went to the negotiating table, but the fact remains that they did.  There was of course a lot a lot of work done prior to 1997 to allow the Agreement to be signed in 1998 behind closed doors and invoving all sorts of mediation that we will know nothing about for manty yreras to come.  The actual peace agreement and devolved power was achieved through the work of many people including Major, Blair, Mo Mowlam, Mitchell and Bill Clinton, not to mention a lot of soul searching and bravery by the Unionists like David Trimble and Sein Fein's leadership, all of whom were seen to be traitors by many in their respective comminities.

What matters now is that there is a fragile peace and a return to some kind of normality in many parts of Northern Ireland, nobody will believe that all the hatred and hurt of the last 30 years and before will be forgotten in a few years by those who were affected, or that the desire for a united Ireland has vanished.  However the Irish people both sides of the border are not stupid enough to be led into a return to daily bombings and murders just because of the acts of a handful of murdering lunatics.  It really angers me to read and hear so called intelligent people predicting these shootings are the start of the "Troubles" all over again. 

[hakunamatata]

Lets hope its not the beginning of another outbreak of violence, but they never handed in all the guns and even if they had, look at the UK.  We were licensed firearms holders using our guns for target shooting and competition, which, incidentally won the Uk several medals in the olympics, but we had to hand them in and they were, we were assured, melted down for drain covers etc.Look at gun crime in the UK now They wrote off a good sport and where did it get them? So the IRA guns are still in Ireland. illegal guns at that and obviously in the wrong hands again.  The Taliban are, they tell us. in the minority but look at the devastation they are causing. Come on Ron everything in the garden is not rosey.

[Framboise]

And today the people of NI stood up and showed that YES they are fed-up with violence rearing its ugly head again in the name of long-held sectarian hatreds, but in the exact same broadcast they also gave airtime to some delinquent who stated that the deaths of those men was "Good..........." and that he intended to join the IRA himself to continue the job in hand.    Great news.   Its is the likes of this lout who do not give peace a chance and why this violence happens.    It feeds on predjudice and contempt for the fellow man such as shown by a gormless thug enjoying his chance of infamy on tv - his chance to be a hard man in front of the world.

As to the gun issue, there have been more shootings since guns were removed from licenced holders than before.   What does this demonstrate?    It shows that it is not the licenced guns doing the damage but illegal weapons (except for Michael Ryan of course) - so could it be that the naughty gang members did not hand their weapons in the amnesty?   Shame on them. And as for melting the confiscated weapons down.....................  a lot of the rarer ones are probably sitting in the police armouries  rather than being reincarnated as manhole covers. 

 

 

[hakunamatata]

Framboise, you sound like you used to be a shooter, we were a good lot[:)]

[Framboise]

My OH is, but yes I do happen to be a good shot and I can use some practice.....................................[kiss]

[Dog]

The major reason Sein Fein finally after very very lengthy talks agreed to end hostilities was because the UK government paid them off. During the 'talks' for example they were being paid £1000 a day expenses no wonder the talks dragged on and on.

Now others think perhaps it's their turn to get to the trough.

In Eire three years ago I met some very militant IRA who had lost friends to the UK military and were ready to give me a good battering just for my accent. I had to assure them that the dead wouldn't be brought back through violence and that many in UK think that Ireland should be returned to the Irish.

[ali-cat]

[quote user="Dog"]

The major reason Sein Fein finally after very very lengthy talks agreed to end hostilities was because the UK government paid them off. During the 'talks' for example they were being paid £1000 a day expenses no wonder the talks dragged on and on.

Now others think perhaps it's their turn to get to the trough.

In Eire three years ago I met some very militant IRA who had lost friends to the UK military and were ready to give me a good battering just for my accent. I had to assure them that the dead wouldn't be brought back through violence and that many in UK think that Ireland should be returned to the Irish.

[/quote]

Dog.  Sinn Fein being the richest political party in Ireland, it is unlikely that Stormont expenses swung the argument.  More likely being rewarded by greater political concessions than they managed to achieve through decades of violence.

Many in the UK (sic) may think that but it is not in their gift to expel a population that is an integral part of the UK.

The Irish republic has had independence since 1921.  The majority of the population in NI are British and are happy to remain part of the UK.  Northern Ireland now has a devolved power sharing assembly.  What more needs to be given back and what excuse remains for continuing violence?

Any solution that ignores the fact that there are two traditions is no solution at all.

Mr Cat

 

 

 

 

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

I think these people are only doing it because they enjoy violence. Really, if NI was under Irish rule, would their lives be much different? I don't think so. If they want to be under Irish rule, why don't they move a couple of hours south? Then we can all live peaceful lives.

But I don't think they really want that. If NI did become part of Ireland, then they would have to find some other reason to go around murdering and blowing up people.

It certainly used to be about a united Ireland, but with globalisation and the EU, each country is pretty much the same now (at a basic level). I think their fight is out of date.

Just live your lives fellas. There's far more important stuff to worry about than this.

That's my take anyway.

R.

[Framboise]

Just like the spotty, ill-educated oik intervewed last night on Sky who declared the soldiers deaths as "Good" and his intention to join the ira, the violence and membership of such a mob brings a kind of FAME to these people, one they are reluctant to give up no matter what.    For what other reason would such a lout ever achieve airtime on global news, certainly not for contibutions to World Peace a la Bliar?     It was his 15 minutes of fame. 

Unfortuntely membership of these "organisations" gathers these deadbeats under a cunning leader who manipulates them to commit atrocities in the name of a Cause, indeed a cause that the majority of folk want no part of yet have it foisted upon their communities regardless.     Maybe the tide has finally turned?  Only yesterday a large number of ordinary people came out onto the streets to show that these wicked deeds are NOT what Ireland wants or needs and they do not want them committed in "Their name" thanks very much.     Yet I wonder if the lot who plot and scheme violent acts take a blind bit of notice of the demands of the people it claims to represent?   Somehow I think not.