Haitian adoptions

[woolybanana]

Well, if any of you have followed it over the last few days, the stalled adoption machine which enabled children from Haiti to be adopted by French couples had been unclogged and the couples have been flying out there to get their kids for Xmas. As one mother proudly showed off her very bewildered and shocked but rather lovely toddler, wrapped in tin foil, I had a terrible thought that a puppy is not just for Xmas. Was I so hideously wrong and uncharitable or is the little warning light that clicks in my brain to be heeded?

The problem is that we bananas live in hands and children are rather communal, so that everyone helps out, passes them round, so that even in cases of losing a parent fruit, a young banana is just taken in and things carry on.

Any thought, guys?

[Jay]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

The problem is that we bananas live in hands and children are rather communal, so that everyone helps out, passes them round, so that even in cases of losing a parent fruit, a young banana is just taken in and things carry on.

Any thought, guys?

[/quote]

Yeah - You are looney-tunes

[woolybanana]

[kiss]

[NickP]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

Well, if any of you have followed it over the last few days, the stalled adoption machine which enabled children from Haiti to be adopted by French couples had been unclogged and the couples have been flying out there to get their kids for Xmas. As one mother proudly showed off her very bewildered and shocked but rather lovely toddler, wrapped in tin foil, I had a terrible thought that a puppy is not just for Xmas. Was I so hideously wrong and uncharitable or is the little warning light that clicks in my brain to be heeded?

The problem is that we bananas live in hands and children are rather communal, so that everyone helps out, passes them round, so that even in cases of losing a parent fruit, a young banana is just taken in and things carry on.

Any thought, guys?

[/quote]

Elton John would probably take in any spare bananas. [Www]

[Gluestick]

I believe you are correct, Woolly.

Since certain celebrities jetted to the other side of the World to adopt kids in blazes of media guff and PR, such acts rather set the agenda for others who worryingly, might perceive a kid as the latest "Must-Have" fashion accessory.

Whilst it is obviously a most charitable and laudable act for persons to adopt orphans, is it right to extract young children from their home state, cultural traditions and heritage?

Personally, I fear not.

It seems very strange to me that the Dominican Republic, just next door  has not really been mentioned in this matter.

One would have thought that nation state might present with much greater cultural similarities.

Surely a chance for DR to heal the ethnic rifts and xenophobia and for once, emerge as the Good Guy in the Caribbean?

[Chancer]

Well Wooly you will have also seen the reports of the now grown up Haitian adoptees, most of which are happy and well adjusted although they didnt try to hide the failures.

One thing I did note is that the majority of the adoptive parents were older and professional, having already made their lives so to speak, I reckon that the adopted kids are far more less likely to suffer the trauma of a divorce than most of the sprogs that are pushed out in my part of the world to parents wholly unsuitable for the responsibility.

Gluestick, Haiti is French speaking although the TV channels always insist on sous titrage like the Côte D'ivoire, but yes there are clearly cultural differences, not so important for the young adopted children though.

[Gluestick]

I was aware of the ethnic background to Hispaniola, JRC, having had a bit of involvement years back in both Haiti and the DR.

Speaking a patois version of French, however, is rather different to a completely disparate nation state and culture, however.

Which was very much my point.

[PaulT]

I assume that France has no orphans that require adoption.

[Gluestick]

Indeed, Paul.

It is pretty clear that international disasters foment a weird sort of emotional knee jerk reaction in people, I fear.

Charities which have struggled away trying to ameliorate dire problems for years are all but forgotten and ignored: however, a burst of media feeding frenzy and certain people seem to lose all rationale.

[Gardener]

I did find the speed that alleged orphans were being shipped out to France in the immediate aftermath of the Haiti earthquake earlier in the year very alarming. I thought I may have been uncharitiable for having such thoughts as of course the children need to be safe etc, but  also I wonder now that the dust has settled how many of these displaced children, could have been reunited with family members, if the authorities had just waited a while.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Gardener"].....................how many of these displaced children, could have been reunited with family members, if the authorities had just waited a while.[/quote]

Ay there's the rub.

Quite agree, Gardener.

The road to hell paved by good intentions, perhaps?

[Alan Zoff]

The power of the camera/TV and the hypocrisy of Man.

Millions of innocent people can die, starve or suffer abuse each day, ignored as mere statistics. Inhumane factory farming methods are conveniently brushed under the carpet, something we would rather not know about.

But put a camera on a calf stranded on the ice and which is being blown by a helicopter to "safety" (i.e. until it's time for the abattoir), and half the free world wants to adopt it.

[YCCMB]

Probably you didn't see the documentary on UK TV a couple of nights ago: "Haiti's miracle baby". It followed the story of a baby girl found abandoned (unintentionally) at a hospital hit by the 'quake, and eventually brought to the UK by a British surgeon for life-saving surgery. Having lost a huge lump from her skull, and also lost an arm and having severe burns to her leg, she would not have survived without his intervention. After the operation, a search was mounted to find her family and eventually her mother was located. The charity involved brought her mother to the UK to be reunited with her daughter. Her mum had (IIRC) three other very young children. It was agreed that the baby would remain in the UK until fit to return. In the interim, whilst the baby was being looked after in the UK, the surgeon and a French colleague returned to Haiti. The mother and her three children were living in appalling conditions with no electricity, an open sewer outside their tiny shack, and more raw sewage everywhere around the area in which they lived. The local hospital had few drugs, was reusing intravenous drips for more than one patient, and was also fairly full of orphaned children, some suffering from obvious mental problems caused by the distress of what they had been through, coupled with conditions that I haven't really seen since the plight of Romanian orphans was highlighted. Both surgeons agreed that in the short term it would be impossible for the baby girl to return to Haiti, given the terrible conditions and her ongoing medical needs. Her mother (separately and quite independently) was thinking along the same lines. The charity involved was supporting her and her 3 other children, in particular by paying for them to go to school - which seemingly would have been unlikely without their intervention. At the end of the documentary, it was stated that no final decision had been taken regarding the baby's future or long-term care. She was still with a foster-family in the UK.

The surgeon was particularly upset and concerned that something he'd undertaken out of a knee-jerk reaction to an immediate medical need had lead him into something outside his sphere of knowledge and certainly far outside his comfort zone. He was clearly moved and appalled by the scenes on his return to Haiti, and he had subsequently been working in Afghanistan, which he said was much better equipped and so on than Haiti.

I guess the point is that although Haiti was, prior to the earthquake, one of the poorest countries in the world, help has either been very slow in coming, or has barely scratched the surface of what is required to restore some sort of order to the country. There are still enormous risks, and I would imagine children and the elderly are especially vulnerable to disease with insufficient medical facilities to cope with current, let alone future needs.

The above tale is a good example of all the right things being done - including making all possible efforts and successfully reuniting a lost child with its family.......but in doing so, the people concerned, all acting with the best possible intentions, have opened a can of worms. I don't believe there is a "right" answer, but I wouldn't decry people who are willing to adopt a child from Haiti.

[Gluestick]

Having been somewhat involved with certain charities, over the years, I remain hugely cynical; from personal experience.

Right now some 1.2 billion people live in absolute poverty, health poverty and on the edge of starvation.

The USA has demonstrated how it is impossible to act as the World's policeman: the rest of us now inherit the net result.

Similarly, despite such once worthy organisations as World Bank, UN, WHO etc., the West continues to strip the Third World of capital and resources: thus the real battle is between charities wearing their hearts on their sleeves: and major Western globalised conglomerates: and duplicitous government.

Charity begins at home: or ought to: and whilst child poverty, deprivation and malnourishment is rising rapidly in UK, Personally, I believe that ought to be a primary focus.

It isn't media-exciting enough, of course, when compared to a second rate celebrity jetting off to the jungle to "save" kids or elephants.

Meanwhile, the largest single business in the World and a major component of British and US industrial manufacturing and exports is the arms trade.

Presently major Western corporations, desperate to save a few pennies, are offshoring various processes to India: which enjoys awesome levels of corruption, wealth and simultaneously horrendous poverty, malnutrition, lack of real human rights and endemic disease.

To me, this is hugely disingenuous.

One charity I do much respect is Médecins Sans Frontière.

Good analysis of Haiti's problems Here:

[Gardener]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]The above tale is a good example of all the right things being done - including making all possible efforts and successfully reuniting a lost child with its family.......but in doing so, the people concerned, all acting with the best possible intentions, have opened a can of worms. I don't believe there is a "right" answer, but I wouldn't decry people who are willing to adopt a child from Haiti.
[/quote]

Apologies for the selective quoting, but I wonder if any British family living in France willing to adopt an Haitian child would be prevented from doing so, if they didn't speak French well enough, even if they could offer that child a home, love , security etc.

If any children were discovered to have parents . close relatives alive, how willing would the adopted parents/ government be to actively ensure the child was reunited? The speed of these adoptions hasn't sat well with me at all.

[YCCMB]

Feel free to quote me as selectively as you wish, although I am struggling to see what the part of my post you did quote has to do with the point you go on to make.

[Russethouse]

Charity begins at home: or ought to: and whilst child poverty, deprivation and malnourishment is rising rapidly in UK, Personally, I believe that ought to be a primary focus.

 Thats a good idea - lets streamline the adoption and fostering process to make them more efficient and effective, cut out some of the beaurocracy and find a way to decide on good potential  parents quicker/and or invest in better education so fewer children fall through the net.

[Richard51]

[quote user="Gardener"]

Apologies for the selective quoting, but I wonder if any British family living in France willing to adopt an Haitian child would be prevented from doing so, if they didn't speak French well enough, even if they could offer that child a home, love , security etc.

[/quote]

My niece (living in Western Canada) adopted a little girl from Haiti.  My niece doesn't speak French.  She started to adopt her little girl before the earthquake but the process was accelerated after the disaster - not least because all the adoption records were destroyed and the country simply didn't have the infra-structure in place to continue with a formalised process. 

Re the point about looking after your own - I think there is very little real poverty in the UK.   The EU ( and hence the UK Government) defines poverty as 'living on less than 60% of the median income' and absolute poverty as 'living on less that 50% of the median income'.  This means half of the children in London, Wales or Manchester are living in poverty. This is not poverty but being marginally less well off than your peers.  In a review of the current measures of poverty (survey by Save the Children) such things as not having a laptop or internet access, not having a TV, sharing a bedroom with a same sex sibling, not having an annual holiday were suggested as measures to define poverty.

If the government really wanted to address the plight of disadvantaged children in the UK they would invest in interventions that actually had a long term impact rather than constantly focussing on minimising the cost for that year or for their tenure of government.

Mrs R51

[Gluestick]

Shades of Disraeli (perhaps) Mrs Dick: Lies; damned lies: and statistics.

Just simply because a family unit has a certain average income, it does not necessarily follow that an equitable proportion of same is allocated to dependent children.

What is called now, generically, "Food Poverty"amongst a large number of British kids is an inescapable reality: there is copious research tabulating cause and effect.

Such As:

"Not having a laptop" we can probably discount: since the epidemic rise in illiteracy would make such rather redundant.

My own baptism of fire in the core realities of deprivation some few years back were startling and sobering, simultaneously.

I am presently involved in a new charity which will feed people: in Britain. In a town redolent of Aston Martins, Porsches, Jaguars, BMWs, large mansions, yachts and the rest.

With the rapidly growing economic problems the need is increasing.

[Richard51]

An expert in poverty as well Gluestick?

Mrs R51

[Gluestick]

No.

A human being with a deep concern for my fellow man: and one who has, over the years been involved in various social and charitable initiatives.

Since we are on the cusp of a new year, let's hold back the snipes and sarcasm and see what we can do for our fellow man, eh?

[Richard51]

It is very difficult to remain objective with yet another bizarre dabble into the web, again disguised as research.

By definition, food poverty in the UK is not what I would describe as the real poverty referred to previously in the thread, which is I believe more to do with not having anything at all to put through the mouth.

I'm not cynical about charity as such, but I am just a little cynical about people who publicise there involvement.

Mr R51

[Alan Zoff]

Sorry for going off at a bit of a tangent but I'm glad your earlier post reminded me about Medicins Sans Frontieres, Gluestick. An admirable charity and one I have overlooked of late.

They upset a former colleague of mine when we were jointly administering the estate of deceased client who had been generous to a number of charities. My colleague thought them rude because, unlike several of the big UK charities, they were not constantly sending gushing letters of thanks and requests for further information. I made the point that I had more time for a charity that was focussed on spending the inheritance to help others, rather than paying expensive administators in prestigious London offices to write often needless letters to executors, but my colleague remained unimpressed. I am still asked occasionally to suggest worthy causes and your post has prompted me to make sure MsF are included in future.

[YCCMB]

There's good and bad in everything, I guess. I once flew on an internal flight in Africa . Can't even remember where from and to, but the bloke in the seat next to me struck up a   conversation. He was working in a freight company and was telling me all about shipping containerloads of cigarettes to Somalia or Sudan. Apparently (according to him), the cigarettes were being bought by people working for MSF and used as a means of supplementing their income. An odd choice, I thought.