UKIP

[Quillan]

True to a degree but as I said it is because the EU needs them, particularly Norway. That aside the EU are not as quick as Gorden Brown in giving away the gold or in this case concessions. Basically you ask to trade with the EU, they say yes and this is what you have to do, take it or leave it. In the case of Norway they just said "tell you what we will leave it and you see that bit gas tap that says On and Off well.......", not a bad position to negotiate from really is it.

The UK on the other hand is in a different boat. Now both Nissan and Toyota build cars in the UK. According to them around 80% of their cars are built LHD for export. Now if you look at one of the links I gave earlier it said 8 out of every 10 cars built in the UK gets exported to the EU, so do the maths. Well that's no big deal if we leave the EU is it, the UK can simply do a deal with EU like Norway except there is a slight problem. The EU will want to protect it's own car manufacturing and the jobs that lay within it especially with EU unemployment so high. Let us also not forget that all the EU countries get to vote on this and they all have to agree, every one of them. Basically I can't see Germany agreeing at all and probably Belgium and couple of others either. The solution for Nissan and Toyota is simply to expand their smaller plants in places like Spain, who would probably jump at the chance of  them creating new jobs and then close the UK factories down. Alternative they could move their plants to one of the new ex eastern block EU countries like Renault have and get workers for £1 per day. Some people say both companies don't really employ hundreds and thousands of workers but they do indirectly. There are companies in the UK that make seat covers 'widgets', 'bits and bobs' that all go in to building these cars. There are the blokes that drive the transporters they move the cars on etc, etc,. All these indirect jobs and companies will go as well and this is just one example.

[idun]

ROFLPMP......... thanks for the laugh Q!

The EU will want to protect it's own car manufacturing[:-))]....... that why french car manufacturers are closing factories in France and opening them in Morocco etc??????

 

[Hoddy]

The trouble is that facts and figures have been misrepresented, misused and massaged to support a particular point of view so often that many people just don't believe any of them any more.

I think that many who voted UKIP are in favour of leaving the EU 'muck or nettles' as we say round these parts.

Hoddy

[Quillan]

[quote user="idun"]

ROFLPMP......... thanks for the laugh Q!

The EU will want to protect it's own car manufacturing[:-))]....... that why french car manufacturers are closing factories in France and opening them in Morocco etc??????

[/quote]

France has been producing cars in Morocco since 1913 and both Peugeot and Citroen have been building cars there for years but these cars are not for the EU market Citroen still make the 5CV there yet it finished production years ago in Europe, bit like the original VW Beetle which stopped being produced in Europe years ago but was still made in South America for years afterwards. French car companies have closed factories in France and have moved their manufacturing to other EU countries like Belgium etc. Just because one factory in France closes and a new factory in Morocco is opened it does not mean that is where a particular model will be made for export to the EU. The biggest joke of all was the popular Peugeot 205, where was it made, Daventry UK, if you look inside it says "Made in the UK".

[NickP]

Keep it up Q and you'll believe it yourself eventually. [:D] By the way I hate to be asking a question in case I get accused of being a bully again, but you said yourself in an earlier post that Renault had moved to Eatern Europe, if that is such a great idea why haven't Nissan and Toyota left the UK and gone down that road already. [8-)] Of course maybe they are waiting for the Scotts to get Independence and join the EU, and possibly the Japs will be flocking to Glasgow with their factories, Hmmm maybe?[I]

[Quillan]

Well Nick I do believe it because I don't rely on the newspapers be they pro or anti the EU, they all lie, bend or omit things to fit their own agenda. I go and find out for myself rather than rely on them and often or not things are not quite what the newspapers say. Unfortunately there are those that take the papers as gospel, can't or won't research things for themselves and become as bigoted as the newspapers in their own very narrow view.

Here is a little test for you, do a bit of research yourself on why Nissan and Toyota are where they are and why it is currently still not profitable for them to leave the UK. I am sure your more than capable with a bit of effort. [;-)]

Whilst the UK is part of the EU the Scots would have as much a chance of joining s they have waking up and finding rocking horse manure outside their front doors. Bit like if Catalonia should they vote for independence and I am sure you know the answer as to why. [:)]

You a bully, I don't think so, more of a pussy cat really.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="allanb"][quote user="Rabbie"]If you read some of the previous posts you will see that countries like Norway and Switzerland have signed up to follow EU rules without having any say in what those rules are. Doesn't seem to be the ideal situation to me. [/quote]
If you are Norway or Switzerland you can sign up for what you're happy with, and do without the rest – what's not ideal about that?
[/quote]Yes but we are the UK and I can see no great advantage for us if we loose our say in drafting the rules but perhaps you have some fresh insight you can share with us on this.

 

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Quillan"]

Here is a little test for you, do a bit of research yourself on why Nissan and Toyota are where they are and why it is currently still not profitable for them to leave the UK.[/quote]

Please sir, me sir! As I used to work for one of the above, I can answer that, but I bet you a fiver that my answer won't be the same as the one you think you've found in your research.[:D]

[Théière]

Oh don't pick on Q, already fed up with TV the Daily Mail is all that's left

[Rabbie]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="Quillan"]

Here is a little test for you, do a bit of research yourself on why Nissan and Toyota are where they are and why it is currently still not profitable for them to leave the UK.[/quote]

Please sir, me sir! As I used to work for one of the above, I can answer that, but I bet you a fiver that my answer won't be the same as the one you think you've found in your research.[:D]
[/quote]Go on, Tell us the right answer

[Frederick]

 Nigel Forage  some time ago said this would come about     Spain has just asked for E39.5 bn bank bailout .

http://seriouslyspain.com/spain-requests-e39-5bn-eu-bank-bailout-after-mariano-rajoy-insists-not-needed

[Quillan]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="Quillan"]

Here is a little test for you, do a bit of research yourself on why Nissan and Toyota are where they are and why it is currently still not profitable for them to leave the UK.[/quote]

Please sir, me sir! As I used to work for one of the above, I can answer that, but I bet you a fiver that my answer won't be the same as the one you think you've found in your research.[:D]
[/quote]

Oh all right go on then, could be a gold star in it for you and you get to go home early on Friday if it's right. [;-)]

[Quillan]

[quote user="Frederick"] Nigel Forage  some time ago said this would come about     Spain has just asked for E39.5 bn bank bailout .
http://seriouslyspain.com/spain-requests-e39-5bn-eu-bank-bailout-after-mariano-rajoy-insists-not-needed

[/quote]

and meanwhile the UK has had over £420bn of 'funny money' made out of thin air.

[Frederick]

and meanwhile the UK has had over £420bn of 'funny money' made out of thin air.

    We are Aaaalll Doomed a tell ye !  We are Aaaaal Doomed !

[allanb]

[quote user="Rabbie"]Yes but we are the UK and I can see no great advantage for us if we loose our say in drafting the rules but perhaps you have some fresh insight you can share with us on this.[/quote]

That seems to me a strangely one-sided way of looking at it.  As I see it, we wouldn't make rules for them and they wouldn't make rules for us; that's not necessarily a bad exchange, unless you have great faith in the Brussels rule-making process.

A couple of things to bear in mind: one, other countries need the UK as a customer, just as the UK needs them; two, rules that are good for both sides can still be made by treaty, as they were long before the EU was invented.

 

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="Quillan"]

Here is a little test for you, do a bit of research yourself on why Nissan and Toyota are where they are and why it is currently still not profitable for them to leave the UK.[/quote]

Please sir, me sir! As I used to work for one of the above, I can answer that, but I bet you a fiver that my answer won't be the same as the one you think you've found in your research.[:D]

[/quote]

Oh all right go on then, could be a gold star in it for you and you get to go home early on Friday if it's right. [;-)]

[/quote]

I have to go to work now. Friday is my day off anyway, so not a big incentive. Basically Nissan Sunderland has survived because it certainly was - and almost certainly still is - the most efficient and cost-effective production facility of any in the group outside Japan. As such, it is able to manufacture at less cost than even those in countries where wages and overheads are significantly lower. So there. It exists because it makes economic sense to Nissan for it to do so.

[Quillan]

Only half the answer Betty, you forgot the 'why it's there and how did it get there' bit.

Other than that correct, go to the top of the class. [:)] They are possibly THE most efficient plant in Europe and have the least amount of stoppages due to industrial action than any other car manufacturer in the last ten years possibly longer. In short why move it or to coin the phrase "If it ain't broke don't fix it".

[Russethouse]

Q: my Citroen C4 was made in Spain, so exactly what Car industry would the French be protecting ? Citroen also produce cars in Egypt and Brazil

[idun]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="Quillan"][quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="Quillan"]

Here is a little test for you, do a bit of research yourself on why Nissan and Toyota are where they are and why it is currently still not profitable for them to leave the UK.[/quote]

Please sir, me sir! As I used to work for one of the above, I can answer that, but I bet you a fiver that my answer won't be the same as the one you think you've found in your research.[:D]
[/quote]

Oh all right go on then, could be a gold star in it for you and you get to go home early on Friday if it's right. [;-)]

[/quote]

I have to go to work now. Friday is my day off anyway, so not a big incentive. Basically Nissan Sunderland has survived because it certainly was - and almost certainly still is - the most efficient and cost-effective production facility of any in the group outside Japan. As such, it is able to manufacture at less cost than even those in countries where wages and overheads are significantly lower. So there. It exists because it makes economic sense to Nissan for it to do so.
[/quote]

 

On french news tonight, a french net book firm have brought manufacture back to France from China. More efficient, better quality work and less staff to do the same work, actually works out cheaper. Good eh!

 

[Quillan]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

Q: my Citroen C4 was made in Spain, so exactly what Car industry would the French be protecting ? Citroen also produce cars in Egypt and Brazil

[/quote]

Your car, just like the Nissan's and Toyota's is made within the EU so for a start there is no import duty or other taxes other than VAT or equivalent. Cars made in none EU countries will attract import duty etc but then Citroen's made in Egypt and Brazil are not destined for the EU market. So how does Nissan and Toyota get away with it well I am sure Betty will know but it is because something like 70% or above of the cars components have to be sourced and made within the EU and the car has to be assembled in the EU. This is also how General Motors (who I believe own Citroen, if not then they own another French mark) and Ford operate within the EU.

My point really being is that for the UK to trade as a none EU member like Norway not only do they have to abide by particular rules which basically are the same as EU member states but such a deal has to be agreed by all EU member states and there are several states who would vote against the UK. That does not mean we can't trade but it means that our goods would not be so competitive because the price would have not only TVA on top as normal but import tax as well which is very high inside the EU. Of course some companies manage but that is because the cost of their manufacturing is so low and that there is no competition.

[andyh4]

GM own Citroen??

 

I don't think so - unless I have been asleep for a decade or so.  Citroen are part of PSA - Peugeot.

 

The only French marque I can think of that might be within the GM stable is Simca - but I am not sure any vehicle has ben produced under that label for a long while. 

 

Now waits for the auto experts to rush in with the real facts.

 

EDIT  Just checked and Simca is also under the PSA wings

[Russethouse]

Q, in that scenario surely it would work both ways...so our domestic market would increase for Uk built cars because they would be better value for money

[Rabbie]

The real issue with the UK leaving the EU is that it would be a huge step in the dark. Nobody actually knows what would happen if this occurs. The politicians and lobbyists on both sides of this argument are experts in spreading confusion and if it comes to a referendum in the UK I fear the result will depend more on emotional argument than on the facts. Much incorrect information about the EU and the consequences of leaving has been spread by both sides so I fear a rational decision will be difficult if not impossible to reach

[Hoddy]

This is the point I was trying to make earlier Rabbie. I think that many people are having such a hard time that they would be willing to take a gamble on leaving.

I happily admit that my response to the 'shall we stay in ?' referendum was an emotional one. Not because I didn't try to weigh up the arguments logically, but because the information that we had was not conclusive either way. The same thing is true now, people advance the 'facts' which suit their arguments.

Hoddy

[powerdesal]

Back in the 'day', I didn't vote for a current style EU, I voted for a 'Common Market'.

Loss of National Sovereignty, Political Control etc etc is not something that I am keen on.