Quillan Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 This is another absolutely terrible event and yet again one must ask about the validity of American gun laws. I don't think I need say more as the following article says it all really.http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/14/newtown-school-shootings-gun-control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 It is ale=ways a tragedy when children die, especially when it is an unnecessary killing. Guns per se are not the problem - it is the morons that use them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 [quote user="Rabbie"] .... Guns per se are not the problem ...[/quote]The justification of the NRA. This always troubles me.A gun has no other purpose than to kill. So why let anyone whose legitimate purpose does not include a legal permission to kill have one?It isn't as if the USA does not have a well-regulated militia ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 15, 2012 Author Share Posted December 15, 2012 [quote user="Rabbie"]Guns per se are not the problem - it is the morons that use them[/quote]Exactly and it says a lot about America and who lives there, a bunch of moronic immigrants. Strange, if you try and find out about shootings by ethnic groups in America it is very difficult if not impossible to find any native American being involve. I suspect there have been a few but I just can't find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Which is more important in the American ethos: "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" or "the right to bear arms"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 It seems to me it is far too late to change in the gun law in the USA ..There are so many in peoples hands already and they would not be handed in . I can see all schools with doors that have combination locks on to classrooms coming Like the doors to wards in hospitals. But that would not stop the madmen that are known to the staff . I was surprised to read that the guns used were ones bought by the shooters mother the teacher . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 15, 2012 Author Share Posted December 15, 2012 Sadly it's the mentality of the public there or the lack of intelligence, one or other or both. The other day a little girl was shot by her brother who found a handgun in the bottom of a wardrobe in pieces. He assembled it and accidentally shot his sister. The issue is why was it left where a young child could get it, why was the ammunition kept with the gun? They could hardly say the gun was to protect their home as in reality it would probably take several minutes under stress to assemble the gun by which time it would be to late. It seemed to me total stupidity on behalf of the parents. The way I see it is that a gun is like anything else in the house once your used to it and familiarity breeds contempt.I read an American comment about shootings in the UK being in the news. Somebody answered that the reason UK shootings get in the news is their rarity where as in the US there are about 80+ people killed with handguns every week and a lot more injured but to the newspapers it is not so interesting for them.Other than feeling extremely sorry for the victims and their families at the end of the day it's there laws, their 'rights' so who cares. It's their problem and I am just glad I don't live there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I chat on another Forum with a charming lady (no sniggers from WB please) who lives on one of the Great Lakes.A couple of weeks ago she said she had just heard a noise in her 'yard' (I think that is what we would call her back garden) and was taking her GUN out to investigate.That gave me a real 'frisson'This is someone who in most other ways is like the people who post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekJ Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 They lost the plot years ago. Now they have no way of fixing it.Obama (or any other US politician) doesn't have the gonads to legislate and even if they did, they've gone way beyond the point of no return with the sheer volume of firearms available.This type of tragedy will continue to repeat itself year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Sorry - duplicate post. Entered in error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 [quote user="DerekJ"] ... Obama (or any other US politician) doesn't have the gonads to legislate ...[/quote]It isn't Obama's role to legislate. All he can do is propose. Legislation is the role of Congress. And with a substantial majority held by the Republicans in the House, there is no real prospect for any contentious legislation being enacted.Gun control IS contentious. Americans seem to believe that the right to bear arms is a constitutional right. The second amendment was about ensuring the nascent USA had an army, not a means of ... well ... population control.What offends me is the implied belief that the lives of children are less important than an eighteenth century "fix" to ensure that an army could be mobilised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 [quote user="Clarkkent"][quote user="Rabbie"] .... Guns per se are not the problem ...[/quote]The justification of the NRA. This always troubles me.A gun has no other purpose than to kill. So why let anyone whose legitimate purpose does not include a legal permission to kill have one?It isn't as if the USA does not have a well-regulated militia ...[/quote][quote user="NormanH"]a charming lady who lives on one of the Great Lakes said she had just heard a noise in her 'yard' (I think that is what we would call her back garden) and was taking her GUN out to investigate.[/quote]Clearly guns are in the culture and would take some time to remove even if legislation started to head that way. Specifically, in this an apparently sensible family with Teacher - mother, accountant - brother, in a 'safe township area', 3 guns and ammunition were immediately available! And to someone possible suffering mental problems and a temper with these tragic results. If the guns were not so readily available it is just possible the massacre would have been avoided. Surely problems will continue until this gun availability is removed however long it takes to change the culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Gun control is certainly a contentious issue.In terms of the UK, there are more gun related crimes than ever, but handguns are effectively banned, how come the criminals can get hold of them easily?I certainly know where I could (illegally) buy a gun in England if I really wanted to. I suspect most of us have the same knowledge.My own very personal view is that the use of guns is related to the extremely violent 'shoot em up' type of video games that are very popular especially with youngsters. Players are exhorted to 'blow away' the enemy, but no-one actually dies so you stop, re-start and do it all again. Death by gunfire becomes meaningless, it's all a game.Obviously such games do not adversely affect all, or even a majority of young players but I feel they must affect some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 'If the guns were not so readily available it is just possible the massacre would have been avoided.'A definite possibility. When I was five I accidentally shot my best friend. I wouldn't have ben able to if my eldest brother hadn't left a loaded gun lying around.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ceour de Lion II Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 [quote user="DerekJ"]They lost the plot years ago. Now they have no way of fixing it.Obama (or any other US politician) doesn't have the gonads to legislate and even if they did, they've gone way beyond the point of no return with the sheer volume of firearms available.This type of tragedy will continue to repeat itself year after year.[/quote]Sadly, I think you are right. It's so ingrained in the culture. Banning guns wouldn't stop these extreme idiots carrying out their evil attacks, they'd find a way of obtaining the weapons. Drugs are illegal, but it's still very easy to get hold of them if you really want to.The laws in many states certainly need tightening up. The NRA is the big problem, and I believe the only way forward is slow reeducation. I still have no issue with handguns for home use only as a means of protection against intruders, but there is no reason why anyone should need to own one of these bloody great big automatic weapons. The answer is, there is no easy answer, and it is going to take a long time for this type of thing to be stopped, if indeed it ever could be. I live in New Jersey, and the gun controls here are very tight. If other states adopted the same laws, perhaps we'd see less of this sort of thing, but I have a feeling we wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I caught part of a R4 programme this morning, which talked about gun availability now as apposed to the days of the 'Wild West'. It was claimed that in those days, guns were not as easily available as now, which really surprised me.This story is just awful; those poor children shot dead in their primary school, who had their whole lives ahead of them. One woman said that the school already had taken steps to keep unwanted people out - but I suppose that as the son of one of the teachers (who hadn't put in an appearance that day - she had been shot dead by her son!) he would have been allowed straight in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 [quote user="Hoddy"]When I was five I accidentally shot my best friend. I wouldn't have ben able to if my eldest brother hadn't left a loaded gun lying around. [/quote]My goodness Hoddy - that must have been appalling for everyone involved. I hope all involved recovered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Well, it was only an air gun and they were much less lethal in those days.I still have a vivid recollection of my mother's reaction when I went into the kitchen and told her that I shot Barbara. I suppose luckily for all concerned I hit her earlobe, which although it bled a lot, wasn't serious.For me the worst part was that my brother was thrashed for it when I felt I was to blame.It could have been very much worse.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Wow... lucky for Barbara (although I dont suppose she thought that at the time). What a scary thing to happen for all of you and thank goodness it was just an earlobe... and your poor brothers bottom... actually poor all of you.Greyman said there have a been a few stories in the recent past where children have found loaded guns and killed family members... I would be terrified of having a gun in the house... more so with young children around. Although my friend's husband (a farmer) has a gun and he says the fear is all in the mind... but wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world without guns... although I'm sure people would find other ways to kill and maim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 From some source or another that I cannot remember it was stated that in the cowboy films showing the firing of guns in to the air for no apparent reason did not happen - they were too poor to waste them.There was a programme on the other day about Bonnie and Clyde. Thier end came with being ambushed, on their way to a meeting, by a posse. The car absolutely riddled with bullets. It seemed an orgy of gunfire to kill two people whereby just a few shots would have sufficed. The gun an everyday item for use.Perhaps though it is only certain States where the problem is - as RII says New Jersey has strict gun laws.However, it would seem that in the US the pro gun lobby is so powerful that the massacres will keep on happening.RII how is the US press reporting this, I wonder if it is with the horror of the UK press or just as sensationalist news.I suppose the size of the US needs to be taken in to account in any statistics and therefore these should be on the basis of per x number of the population rather than the number for the whole population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I certainly know where I could (illegally) buy a gun in England if I really wanted to. I suspect most of us have the same knowledge. powerdesal.---------------------------Speak for yourself. I have no idea of anywhere I could get a firearm-should I need one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I was speaking for myself.Perhaps rather than say 'most of us' I should have said something on the lines of ' no doubt there are some others amongst us that have the same knowledge'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Unfortunately, it's this kind of moronic, blinkered, macho, egocentric attitude that the President (whoever he may be) and Congress would have to contend with in order to make significant change.[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=O0B_UZNtEk4[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 Sad really Betty, very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 CH should be aware of the phrase 'Be careful what you wish for' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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