Frederick Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 "Do what the French would do " says MP http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/9857577/MP-hints-at-ban-on-EU-meat-imports.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I hope the French government has the sense to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I think its all spiraling out of control now, its getting boring and everyone needs to get back to basics because dealing with this is no rocket science and at the end of the day the blame lays in a lot of different places.Somebody in one of the papers today quoted from a farmers website that in the UK during January the average price per kilo for cow ready for slaughter was around £3.50 or perhaps £3.80, somewhere in between. It seems to me that somebody, well the supermarkets, is making a lot of money. Prices are driven my consumerism, if beef becomes to expensive then people will buy a different product.If I was in position to change things I would first ban the import of food to the UK containing processed meat and processed meat in its base form for making meals in the UK. I would ensure that UK farmers got a decent price for their product probably by controlling the difference between wholesale and retail value, possibly cost plus 30%. hoping that prices won't fall so much but rather farmers got more. This would entice more farmers to produce quality beef and other meats without the need to 'cheat'.By banning the import of processed meat we could see perhaps a drop in unemployment because they will have to create factories in the UK to make ready meals and expand those already here. This all means we get traceability of our meats, people know they are getting whats on the box and it is a quality product. Farmers would also get more and we have less unemployment and in general is what I would call a win, win scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Its poorly thought out knee-jerk bollox. It all comes down to money in the end - the end consumer WILL NOT support the price increase that would arise if EU imports were banned. The UK can not meet demand for meat with UK sourced animals at current prices - thats why meat is sourced elsewhere. The profits the farmer sees are so small, they can not take a hit and reduce prices and the supermarkets sure as hell will not reduce their margins, so prices MUST go up. Consumers are already stretched thin by the economic climate and a large hike in the price of processed foods would be a disaster.There are plenty of people talking about this on various forums...."well, I only buy fresh meat from my local butcher blah blah blah...." Good for them, but the reality of UK (and France really) is that a vast percentage of the population live off processed meals.Besides, I would guess that Britain does not have the infrastructure or stock levels to meet such a sudden hike in demand for meat, There would likely be a delay of at least a year before stock levels on farms and production facilities could be up to speed...what do we do in the mean-time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 [quote user="dave21478"]Its poorly thought out knee-jerk bollox. It all comes down to money in the end - the end consumer WILL NOT support the price increase that would arise if EU imports were banned. The UK can not meet demand for meat with UK sourced animals at current prices - thats why meat is sourced elsewhere. The profits the farmer sees are so small, they can not take a hit and reduce prices and the supermarkets sure as hell will not reduce their margins, so prices MUST go up. Consumers are already stretched thin by the economic climate and a large hike in the price of processed foods would be a disaster. There are plenty of people talking about this on various forums...."well, I only buy fresh meat from my local butcher blah blah blah...." Good for them, but the reality of UK (and France really) is that a vast percentage of the population live off processed meals. Besides, I would guess that Britain does not have the infrastructure or stock levels to meet such a sudden hike in demand for meat, There would likely be a delay of at least a year before stock levels on farms and production facilities could be up to speed...what do we do in the mean-time?[/quote]I think that perhaps you are being a little optimistic in thinking the UK could be selfsufficient in meat production in just a year. Talking to some of my neighbours who are in meat production it would take at least two years for them to double production and many farms just don't have the grazing and the capital to invest in order to do this. An increase in cattle means an increase in Barley and other food stuffs which would also go up in price so I just don't see it happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 South America the USA and Australia I imagine would be happy to export more beef to the UK to make up the shortfall .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 yeah, and who pays the transport costs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I agree with some of Daves earlier comments and reiterate what I said about consumers driving prices and quality even.I am mindful of Jamie Oliver and his 'mate' with the long name of River Cottage fame. They were going on about free range chickens and trying to get people to buy them rather than the much cheaper battery chickens. All well and good if you can afford them but there was no thought about the struggling young family with a couple of kids who could buy two (or more) battery chickens for the price of one free range one and have some change.Its the same with these meals. We can buy a fresh made lasagna from the supermarket that feeds four for about 3 Euros. If you bought fresh ingredients (they charge 13 Euros a kilo for fresh minced 'in front of you' beef in our supermarket) and then added in the time, my most expensive ingredient, it would be double or treble the price. Some eat them because of price and others because they are time savers. When your retired you have all the time in the world, you can grow your own veg and spend hours cooking but for those of us who work these type of meals are very convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 [quote user="dave21478"]yeah, and who pays the transport costs?[/quote]Makro in the UK sell rib eye steaks from Brazil .....I buy them and very nice they are so there is a trade with Brazil to provide beef .There was a bigger trade until the EU clamped down on it according to this ; http://www.eblex.org.uk/markets/news-brazil-beef-marginal.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Ah, but, Quillan, you see..that's the key word, right there: "convenient". I don't think our parents would ever have used the word. My mum generally cooked from scratch every evening, although I do remember a bit of a hiccup when those disgusting Vesta meals came out, and a curry with sultanas in it (why) was briefly all the rage and terribly exotic. Back then, the supermarket was a novelty.I've managed to hold down a full-time job and yet cook from scratch most of the time, in spite of 10-hour days and an hour's commute each end. Price may be a consideration, I absolutely agree. However, I frequently think about the cost of what I put on a plate for two of us, and as a rule I'm pretty confident I can feed two people for two or three quid quite easily and without recourse to ready meals. In fact, I'm often quite shocked at how much "prepared" food can cost.It's funny...my eldest son called me this morning from Morrison's as he was doing his shopping. He's a student, as is his GF, and he was buying food for the two of them to prepare a roast for when she comes back from working in a local pub. They were going to be having pork loin, roasted vegetables and roast potatoes (he was telling me he was looking forward to trying a method he's seen on TV this week, in the new Michel Roux Jr programme), followed by a home-made apple and raspberry strudel. Quite honestly, if two students with hardly a bean between them living off part-time and freelance earnings, paying for accommodation, transport and the materials they need for their respective university courses in central London, (postgrads, so not in receipt of student loans or subsidies) can find the time, money and enthusiasm to cook a decent meal from scratch, then I'm sure it's not outwith the capabilities of most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 [quote user="Frederick"][quote user="dave21478"]yeah, and who pays the transport costs?[/quote]Makro in the UK sell rib eye steaks from Brazil .....I buy them and very nice they are so there is a trade with Brazil to provide beef .There was a bigger trade until the EU clamped down on it according to this ; http://www.eblex.org.uk/markets/news-brazil-beef-marginal.aspx[/quote]Yes, but rib-eye steaks are a speciality "premium" product that a tiny percentage of the population buys. The problem is with the meat used in the processed foods - frozen lasagne and all the other stuff that sell thousands and thousands of tons every week. Transporting meat on that sort of scale over those sort of distances is not economical. Remember - these are basic, low-cost products that must use low-cost ingredients to remain affordable.Besides....it has turned out that our eastern European chums have been less than honest with what is in their meat product - this is due to them finding it more profitable to throw in low quality meat and pass it off as beef. What is to say that the same will not happen with meat from anywhere else? even from sources within the UK? Like I said at the start - it is all about money, and someone always gets rich at the expense of the consumer. If throwing some horses into the mixer is an easy way to make even more money, then there will always be someone with scruples low enough to do exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 [quote user="You can call me Betty"].......... then I'm sure it's not outwith the capabilities of most of us. [/quote]It is though - proper cookery has not been taught in school for decades and there are now second-generation kids in UK who can barely eat with a knife and fork, never mind prepare and cook a meal. Sadly, a plate of oven chips and chicken nuggets eaten with their hands in front of the TV is normal meal time for an awful lot of people, and they are now raising children who think the same way.Its not just low income people either....When I was at university a girl in the halls from an affluent background decided to cook some pasta. She put the dry pasta in a pot and put it on the cooker. Wrecked the pot and set off the fire alarm. She was 18 years old and had never, ever cooked anything beyond toast in her whole life. She wasnt the only person like that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 This is what happens when the EU allow all these Eastern European "types" to join the club. What else would you expect from them, honesty and fair play ????And if the poor say they cant afford properly reared food (all battery food should be banned IMHO) then they will have to cut down on their cans of larger so they can pay more for their meals. I suppose they could just eat less, this may actually do some of them good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 [quote user="ebaynut"]This is what happens when the EU allow all these Eastern European "types" to join the club. What else would you expect from them, honesty and fair play ????And if the poor say they cant afford properly reared food (all battery food should be banned IMHO) then they will have to cut down on their cans of larger so they can pay more for their meals. I suppose they could just eat less, this may actually do some of them good. [/quote] Yeah! Keep Britain for the honest Brits, even if they are too stupid to eat proper food, and drink lager all day [6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 [quote user="dave21478"][quote user="You can call me Betty"].......... then I'm sure it's not outwith the capabilities of most of us. [/quote]It is though - proper cookery has not been taught in school for decades and there are now second-generation kids in UK who can barely eat with a knife and fork, never mind prepare and cook a meal. [/quote]I'm not completely disagreeing with you, dave, but I can say that both my boys (yeah, boys) - 26 and 22 - learned to cook at school, and the younger one went on to qualify as a chef alongside his "A"levels, having developed a passion for food and cooking during his classes at secondary school. Neither of them were the "I learned all my cooking skills at my mother's knee" type, because I didn't have the luxury of the Laura Ashley lifestyle nor the patience to clean up the mess from small boys making stuff in the kitchen. I don't know where things stand now with regard to cookery being taught in schools, but personal experience seems to suggest it was still on the curriculum within the last decade.There are, undoubtedly, people who can't (or won't) cook. Are they in the majority? I don't know. My younger son studied food science and works in the food industry, and I know that quite a few of his friends (yes, on the same course!) couldn't cook to save their lives. You'd think they would be the sort of people who might, though, wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 [quote user="nomoss"] Yeah! Keep Britain for the honest Brits, even if they are too stupid to eat proper food, and drink lager all day [6][/quote]If that's what you think then it's just as well that you live in France then my friend, as you would be very disappointed to find out that it's possible to eat in better and more diverse restaurants any day in Britain than in France. But hey; you carry on living in your ignorance and paying through the nose for boil in the bag food and overpaying for cheap wine I'm sure you'll die happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Well neither of my boys learned to cook in french schools up to the age of 15. Then the eldest went to cookery lycee, so he learned there, although he already knew how to cook. We watch french tv, it isn't just immigrants who buy all these preprepared meals in France, it is french people. And those who have a bit more money, go to a traiteur and buy ready made meals. Not every french person I know is a good cook, by any means!And oven chips and chicken nuggets......... as opposed to rice and fish fingers or chicken nuggets that is so common place as a children's meal in France. And sometimes just a plate of pasta. People work and do long hours in France, and have the devoir and activities to sort out and then feed the kids and all the other stuff and get them to bed, it is no wonder that people buy ready meals, of whatever sort. Maybe on a weekend or a day off, they'll cook and some do not cook much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 [quote user="nomoss"][quote user="ebaynut"]This is what happens when the EU allow all these Eastern European "types" to join the club. What else would you expect from them, honesty and fair play ????And if the poor say they cant afford properly reared food (all battery food should be banned IMHO) then they will have to cut down on their cans of larger so they can pay more for their meals. I suppose they could just eat less, this may actually do some of them good. [/quote] Yeah! Keep Britain for the honest Brits, even if they are too stupid to eat proper food, and drink lager all day [6][/quote]Perhaps if more of them moved to France, they could save money on lager. Or wine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 The old-fashioned Home Economics lessons that used to be taught to all boys and girls was abolished under the reforms of the conservative party in the 1980s on the grounds that it did not make the pupils more employable.I've always thought it a great loss, not just because of the cooking part but because of the nutrition and hygiene which were important elements of it too.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 [quote user="NickP"][quote user="nomoss"] Yeah! Keep Britain for the honest Brits, even if they are too stupid to eat proper food, and drink lager all day [6][/quote]If that's what you think then it's just as well that you live in France then my friend, as you would be very disappointed to find out that it's possible to eat in better and more diverse restaurants any day in Britain than in France. But hey; you carry on living in your ignorance and paying through the nose for boil in the bag food and overpaying for cheap wine I'm sure you'll die happy[/quote] Who told you we lived on boil in a bag food and cheap wine?I must be more careful who I talk to, although, of course, being completely unable to speak any foreign languages, and pi$$ed most of the time, the list of possible culprits is small [:D]See, I resisted the impulse to be rude back[:-))]I must be getting better at conversing with idiots - Oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 It would appear if the ban on horses on Romanian roads to comply with EU traffic expectations and regulations started in 2008. Given the hundreds of thousands of horses they have had to slaughter it does not take much to work out they have found a way to deal with two problems ... Reduce the risk of traffic accidents and dispose of the horses ... I expect to read soon that the consumption of horse/beef mix has been going on for a very long time .http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1578965/Horses-left-to-starve-after-Romania-bans-carts.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Well nomoss, probably the same type of people who told you that Brits don't eat proper food, but as you say you don't speak the lingo and are always pi$$ed, maybe the idea of normal life is outside your understanding? [:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 [quote user="Hoddy"]The old-fashioned Home Economics lessons that used to be taught to all boys and girls was abolished under the reforms of the conservative party in the 1980s on the grounds that it did not make the pupils more employable.I've always thought it a great loss, not just because of the cooking part but because of the nutrition and hygiene which were important elements of it too.Hoddy[/quote]Oh how I agree, while its true at the time I could not see the point of knowing how to feed my elderly mother and a troop of Boy Scouts something nutritious I now realise that those lessons and questions were probably the most useful. Bring back Domestic Science or Home Ec and eventually things will improve.For the record my Bulgarian friend regularly sends British food home including cooked meats.......not horse...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I will admit to having a bee in my bonnet about the loss of Home Economics.It wasn't just learning about food groups, and the importance each of them has and simple and appropriate cooking methods. Also, and almost equally important, was basic hygiene. This was particularly true in our school which always had over 40% of children from ethnic minorities many of whom thought that running a cold tap on a plate for a long time rendered it clean and that it was OK to pour melted fat down the sink. Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 My personal feeling is that obesity levels would go down if we taught people how to cook, and nutrition at school. Because whatever you do, we all need to eat, and eating well is not difficult if you are given the right tools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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