Canvas Parachutes

[Hoddy]

People in these parts are getting ready to commemorate the deaths of a number of local people who were shot by the Nazis who were trying to head to Normandy. The same group which committed the atrocity at Orador did some pretty foul things around here too.

This is really just a tiny point of interest. One of them mentions canvas parachutes being used by the British and Americans who were being parachuted in to help the resistance. I had thought parachutes in those days were always made of silk or some other very lightweight material. Are there any experts out there ?

Hoddy

[Will]

I'm pretty sure that WW2 parachutes were all made of silk. It was only after the war that alternative materials were used, and these were usually lightweight but very strong man-made fibres.

[DerekJ]

[quote user="Hoddy"] The same group which committed the atrocity at Orador did some pretty foul things around here too.

This is really just a tiny point of interest. [/quote]

Don't know about the parachutes but the "same group" were Das Reich and I can recommend the book Das Reich:The March of the 2nd

SS Panzer Division Through France by Max Hastings.

[url]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Das-Reich-Division-Military-Classics/dp/0330509985/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277229351&sr=1-1[/url]

It covers their journey from Montauban to Normandy and includes their atrocities at Gabaudet, Tulle and Oradour (amongst several others).

Edited: To correct typo on the word "Oradour" as so kindly pointed out by pachapapa.   

[Russethouse]

I thought they were made of silk too - somewhere I have an silk map of France which I'm told was given to those being parachuted into France in case it got wet!

Interesting use of parachute material here:

http://www.thejewishpress.com/pageroute.do/37658

[Anton Redman II]

A very positive posting about times which those of us who are goy find very hard to look at or remember

[Hoddy]

I have the Hastings book, but it's nearly thirty years since it was first published. When stories are told in the local press of what happened to cause a particular memorial stone to be where it is, I translate them, print them and put them into the book at the appropriate page.

At least people are beginning to tell more resistance stories and to recognise the role paid by the Spanish republicans in this area.

Hoddy

[Quillan]

RAF aircrew escape maps for the bulk of WW2 were printed on silk. The silk used was silk that failed quality control for paracute manufacture. With weight being a major factor for both paratroopers and aircrew plus its ability to be be folded very tightly in to a small space and being lightweight along with its strenth made it an ideal fabric for parachutes. It was not till towards the end 1944 when Rayon was used to make parachutes it having the same characteristice as silk, slightly stronger yet the most import part being it was man made which ment that it could be manufactured in the UK. The majority of silk used in WW2 allied parachutes came from the US so it was an added advantage that a subsitue could be fabricated in the UK which ment that it didn't have to take up valuable cargo space of trans atlantic ships. It is therefore quite probable that the Rayon parachutes could have been mistaken for another fabric but it did not look anything like canvas.

[DerekJ]

[quote user="Hoddy"]I have the Hastings book, but it's nearly thirty years since it was first published. [/quote]

I had to buy a secondhand copy through Abe Books about a year ago as it was out of print but they've just reprinted it.

[Quillan]

As a side issue we have a local American hero buried down here in France, a Lieutant Swank, whos grave is located by the side of the road a few km's south of Limoux. You can read more about him, his mates and what they got up to using the link below.

http://www.ossog.org/france/peg_kohn_05.html

 

[Pickles]

[quote user="Hoddy"]One of them mentions canvas parachutes being used by the British and Americans who were being parachuted in to help the resistance. I had thought parachutes in those days were always made of silk or some other very lightweight material. [/quote]

The material that the silk parachutes was packed into was, I think, canvas - as was the transport bag. Although it was used for early parachutes, canvas is too bulky and heavy for general use.

Regards

Pickles

[pachapapa]

As a mark of respect I would commend the correct spelling of Oradour.

I feel that there has probably been a problem in french communication.

The A-4,A-5 and A-6 containers for principally small arms delivery were made from canvas, used by GIs delivering from North Africa.

If anyone interested I'll pop up a website.

[pachapapa]

Off topic but intrinsically interesting, the delivery of 16554 pigeons to france.

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/philippe.chapill/Container%20pigeon.htm

[Gluestick]

At the beginning of his career he was a minor participant in a project that helped develop parachutes using nylon rather than imported Japanese silk

 

Bill Pittendreigh

 

During World War II, all nylon production was earmarked for the war effort.  The military used it in 3.8 million parachutes, a half a million airplane tires, and for an uncounted number of glider tow ropes, flak vests, and blood plasma filters.

 

http://www.cha4mot.com/p_jc_dph.html

 

Nylon: Invented Wallace Carruthers

 

Company: Dupont:

 

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/nylon/nylonv.htm

 

Early Parachutes:

"John Hampton's parachute was made of canvas over a framework of whalebone ribs and bamboo stretchers, attached by a copper tube to a small wicker basket".

 

http://www.bpa.org.uk/about-us/history-of-the-sport

 

[Salty Sam]

It's quite possible the reference to 'canvas' parachutes wasn't too far out.

Cargo parachutes were made of cotton, and extensively used for airdrops of equipment.

Interestingly, the correct spelling is Oradour Sur Glane, not to be confused with Oradour Sur Vayres located further south. A school of thought suggests the German troops responsible for the massacre actually made the mistake of hitting the wrong 'Oradour'.

 

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Salty Sam"]

It's quite possible the reference to 'canvas' parachutes wasn't too far out.

Cargo parachutes were made of cotton, and extensively used for airdrops of equipment.

Interestingly, the correct spelling is Oradour Sur Glane, not to be confused with Oradour Sur Vayres located further south. A school of thought suggests the German troops responsible for the massacre actually made the mistake of hitting the wrong 'Oradour'.

 

[/quote]

Whilst rayon,cotton,nylon and silk were used for parachutes by " Air Operations".

Whilst cotton is used for making canvas.

Whilst canvas was not used for parachutes by "Air Operations" in WWII.

Even the most hirsute french peasant is likely to be able to identify cotton, linen and canvas sheets.

[pachapapa]

Link to a description of an A-5 american package made from canvas. These were regarded by the french as inferior to the british equivalents and frequently broke on impact.

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/philippe.chapill/Gaine%20Type%20A-5.htm

[pachapapa]

Same site details of parachutes used for containers and packets.

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/philippe.chapill/les_parachute_de_largage.htm

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

Whilst canvas was not used for parachutes by "Air Operations" in WWII.[/quote]

Really, from which authority are you quoting this time ?

You may wish to visit this link; [URL]http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/geronimo/index.html[/URL]

and scroll down to the article;

"STAND IN THE DOOR!" (Intelligence Bulletin May 1946) 

[quote user="pachapapa"]

Even the most hirsute french peasant is likely to be able to identify cotton, linen and canvas sheets.

[/quote]

As they so obviously have done in the OP's first post.

[IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/2v3t447.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/6ss66r.jpg[/IMG]

British Issue cotton parachutes from WW2, packed in it's own Canvas carrier and designed for cargo use.

[Hoddy]

Thanks for all the interesting replies.

As for the Max Hastings book, my copy is also an old one bought from ABE. The point I as trying to make is that people seem to be talking more openly these days about what happened and these stories won't be in the old book or the reprint.

Thanks again to all.

Hoddy

[pachapapa]

I had included cotton in a previous post:/

Whilst rayon,cotton,nylon and silk were used for parachutes by " Air Operations".

Whilst rayon,cotton,nylon and silk were used for parachutes by " Air Operations".

BUT NOT CANVAS PARACHUTES§§

[Gluestick]

Methinks Pach is trying to make a point: hope he's got his parachute for when he jumps out of the window in frustration.......

Not a cotton one though............

[powerdesal]

During a 'past' life I was a Flight Commander at the Parachute Support Unit (RAF Hullavington - as was) and never ever came across reference to canvas being used for heavy or man drops, not even for brake parachutes. Canvas bags  of course but for canopies - forget it. They couldn't be packed and wouldn't deploy.

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

I had included cotton in a previous post:/

Whilst rayon,cotton,nylon and silk were used for parachutes by " Air Operations".

[/quote]

My apologies Mr P.

I have since cleansed my monocle and thrashed myself with a birch twig. Unfortunately the words; "rayon,cotton,nylon" when written as such, all blend together. Whereas if written; "rayon, cotton, nylon" I may have spotted your observation earlier.

Thank you for drawing this to my attention.

[Pierre ZFP]

Forgive me if this is slightly off-topic but I remember my father telling me of the time he was shot down over Arnhem.

I clearly remember him saying that as he neared the ground, a lot of people came running across the fields to him.  Not knowing if they were friend or foe, he took his revolver out and waved it about. It wasn't much use as he was never issued any bullets!  So, it seems that the people were friendly, Dutch resistance.  The women took his parachute as it was highly prized being made of SILK.  My Dad reckoned it would soon be made into knickers!  The revolver he gave to the resistance who passed him back to British lines.

Back in England, the first thing that happened was that he was placed on a charge and faced a Court Marshal.  The offence?  Not being in posession of his side arm!