It's hunting season...again !

[alittlebitfrench]

Hunting season has started and with that comes Brits living in France throwing their toys out of their prams because Chasseurs are crossing their 5 hectares of land shooting anything that moves.

So do you accept that as French culture and ignore it or do you complain ?

Tough one this.

[Harnser]

I can't say that I regard the armed inebriated morons who seek to liquidate all living creatures wherever they go as "French Culture".

Do you?

[woolybanana]

Oi, little bit of French, don't get it so wrong. Many, many French people would be more than happy to get rid of the barbarism that is hunting in this country but can't be bothered to fuss or have been abused into keeping their gobs shut.

In many rural communes the mayors are farmers or closely associated with the agricultural lobby and often the FN and do their damndest to keep the thing going.

How to get rid of it is not to give in to the hunting lobby as Sarkozy did, but to tax the hunting licence significantly, tax guns and ammunition and limit the season as well as what can be shot.

But with Marine round the corner, noone is gonna do that, so the horror will continue.

An please stop making vaguely nasty attacks on the Brits who do not like hunting or who have to put up with it on their land. They deserve support, not snide comments!

[alittlebitfrench]

Oi, woo ly ban ana, I have not made any nasty attacks.

I have spent the last ten thousand years trying to stop the French from eating Foie Gras. In that time I have managed one person.

Don't get me started about hunting.

I have come to accept that it is a cultural thing in France. Eating Foie Gras at any given celebration, as well as hunting is part of French life. Whether you like it or not.

Should you just accept it , protest or not move to France in the first place. These cultural traditions are going to continual regardless.

[Gluestick]

Surely, private land in France is precisely that?

The proprietor seems to enjoy the right to ban hunting on their own land and the common practice seems to be putting up notices advising this.

See here:

Common land is somewhat different.

[Gardian]

I must admit that initially (over the last ten years) I have been very much opposed to the hunting that goes on regularly around here for the 5-6 months or so.

Having said that, I was always of the view that if you join a club (i.e move here) then you are to some great extent obliged to live by the rules of the club.

Having said that, I don't like it one little bit, but sangliers (see my other posts) are a big problem in these parts. The very very local ones seem to have moved away and the local chasse seems to be as unsuccessful as ever.

Long may the balance continue !

[YCCMB]

Yeah.. Of course, complaining about hunting and disliking it is a completely *British* preoccupation, and all the French love and embrace it as part of their "culture"

Hence this article, no doubt.

http://www.francetvinfo.fr/animaux/huit-francais-sur-dix-souhaitent-l-interdiction-de-la-chasse-le-dimanche_1833383.html

[alittlebitfrench]

That is a poll of 1011 people. Is that a larger enough poll given there are 60 million people living in France ? Are the results biased by people voting from cities who don't understand adequately about the countryside and rural pursuits.

Decathlon at this time dedicates about 3 aisles (including Paris) to our Chasse friends so I am guessing it is more popular than that.

The question is, if you buy a house and land in rural France do you just accept that the chasse may enter your land or do you try and protect your rights. Similarly if you don't have land but feel threatened when taking your dog for a walk on a Sunday do you complain ?

Given those hunting have grown up in the area and have probably done so all their lives is it really wise in terms of 'integration' to annoy them.

I am guessing these people can make your life a misery if you upset them.

[andyh4]

A carefully selected group of 1000 could well give a good indication of the views of 60 mil. - within a couple of per cent either way.

Of course the careful selection is the key with balances between

men and women

townies and woolybacks

right and left wing

and a representative age profile and ethnic profile.

Whether this survey has achieved that I could not give any idea. But even a poorly chosen random sample is likely to be right within 5-10% - so whether it is 80% against or maybe only 70%, the message is clear.

[Chancer]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"] Given those hunting have grown up in the area and have probably done so all their lives is it really wise in terms of 'integration' to annoy them. I am guessing these people can make your life a misery if you upset them.[/quote]

 

Its never wise to annoy a man with a gun!

[Pierre ZFP]

It was reported in the local news this morning that a woman was sitting on her own terrace when she started bleeding profusely from her face.

She was stabilised then taken to Belgium to have a bullet removed.

It turns out she had been shot by one of three hunters nearby who were subsequently detained by the police and the guns confiscated for tests.

This was in Luxembourg but it could have been almost anywhere. Every year we hear of hunters shooting themselves and their friends, this is the first time I heard of a 'civillian' being shot.

[alittlebitfrench]

Very true Chancer, especially if the Chasseur's is a Gendarme during the week. Or worst, works in the Mairie.

Going back Andy's point. I think if there was 'I don't care' option in the survey I think that would make the results more realistic. If you ask anyone about the subject the average person seems not to care one way or the other.

Anyway if you eat Foie Gras you can't be against hunting or certainly should not be allowed to vote. That is the way I see it. So overwhelmingly France must be in favour of hunting.

[Patf]

re hunters entering private land: As the last para. in Gluey's link says, to have your land released from free to roam for hunters, you have to apply to the prefecture. I believe it's a lengthy procedure.

Also from Gluey's link laws vary in different parts of France ie in some depts. the Chasse has to apply for free to roam, in others it's automatic. Chris Luck once wrote at length about it, he doesn't seem to be around now.

[YCCMB]

Massive assumptions part 2

If you're British and live in rural France, you must be fervently anti-chasse.

Is that any more statistically accurate or balanced than a published survey?

[Patf]

Here's a couple more links, (if they appear):

http://www.aspas-nature.org/agir/interdire-la-chasse-chez-soi/

http://www.aspas-nature.org/wp-content/uploads/Depliant-Refuge-ASPAS.pdf

The chasse here used to be a bit of a pain, but seem to be much better organised now. The only bit I don't like is when they shoot quail - they tramp the harvested fields behind us looking for them, they nest on the ground. Seems cruel and pointless to me, they're very small, hardly any meat on them, and they do no harm.

[alittlebitfrench]

Good point Betty...never considered that.

I just assumed that given most Brits were against fox hunting that their views would extend to hunting in France. Quite possibly they don't. Maybe Brits are are just against Toffs hunting and working class French killing animals for sport is OK.

To be fair though, I have never seen a thread on a forum where Brits are welcoming the start of the hunting season in France and can't wait to have their land trespassed by alcoholic old blokes with loaded guns.

Got a feeling a 'Massive assumption part 3' is coming. LOL.

[andyh4]

Keep digging ALBF, the more you dig the more of your assumptions/prejudices come out.

1. The poll. I am all but certain that some of those interviewed ill have expressed no opinion. What the pollsters have done with that remains a mystery.

2. What is the link between hunting, which involves guns and wild animals and foie gras which involves domesticated animals and a mimic (arguably cruel depending on how it is done) of a natural process in geese and ducks - which, if they are migratory, gorge themselves prior to the migration and in doing so cause their livers to become fatty.

3. Many Brits living in the country are less anti-hunt than the townies. Is it unreasonable to suppose that such Brits would be more likely to move to the country in France than a French city. Thus the Woolybacks living in France may not be as anti-hunt as you assume. For my own part as a woolyback, I appreciate the need for hunting to control vermin and the desire of hunting to provide food. I don't however subscribe to hunting purely as sport. We are perhaps lucky here in that the chasse are generally well behaved and remain sober. This may be because of the terrain, where a carelessly placed footstep could end up with the individual being several metres or tens of metres further down the mountain than he was expecting.

[YCCMB]

http://france-sans-chasse.org/

https://www.facebook.com/100-000-personnes-contre-la-chasse-Radicalement-anti-chasse-280796372069026/

http://www.collectifdu21septembre.org/

http://anti.chasseur.over-blog.com

Yeah, seems like all French people love the chasse.

[alittlebitfrench]

Some points Andy.

1) "What the pollsters have done remains a mystery" (your words). So in that respect we don't know the credibility of the poll then !! Which I guess makes it as worthless as my assumptions.

2) In terms of your second point, there is a link so far as cruelty to animals extends to food consumption as well. The production of Foie Gras is cruel and so is the shooting animals for sport. You can't be against one without being against the other unless you are hypocrite....IMHO. You are either for or against cruelty to animals. You can't sit there chomping on Foie Gras complaining about the local Chasse.

3) You said "Many Brits living in the country are less anti-hunt than the townies". How do you that ? I grew up in a rural Wilshire village where there were hunts, polo and other such nasty things. Those were the days admittedly when rural country villages in the UK were populated by rural country folk and not Londoners.

I am surmising that most 'Brit townies' move to the countryside in France to get away from their urban living in the UK. You just have to look at Green acres to work that one out.

However, the majority of Brit expats in fact live in 'Ile de France' because they work there. I am guessing they are a balance of country and city folk.

In terms of France, one of the biggest and most famous hunting areas is 'Sologne' where low and beyond most Parisiens (townies) go to shoot at the weekend because they are generally the only ones who can afford to do so.. Domaines there cost millions.

Keep digging LOL.

[idun]

The chasseurs in my old village were affreux. We became friends with  a couple that moved to the village and he was from a noble family, chateau and all and had hunted all his life. He joined our local chasse and came back vowing never to go again.

His words about them were choice, along with saying that it was carnage, and that they were idiots. The only shooting he did in our region after was with a camera.

Yes, lots of 'accidents'. Their dogs, their fellow chasseurs, and with guns in the house, too many 'accidents' where their family members are shot at other times of the year.

Not good. I would avoid roads near the woods where the chasse were operating, and no way would any of my family or my friends go walking whilst they were at their chosen activity.

edit and they tended to be rather right wing in our village, and I do not like the hunters and neither did my friends, they did not hunt, but some did fish.

[Patf]

Well I don't mind the chasse  - this is a mainly cereal growing area and the sangliers especially do a lot of damage to the crops. They breed profusely too.

And the deer they kill to eat, so not just for sport. And the fox to protect the poultry, which most people keep, and are their main source of food for most of the year.

Most chasse members are farmers.

They have a celebratory meal once a year and everyone is invited. I've never been though, the menu is every course: wild pig!

[andyh4]

ALBF

"1) "What the pollsters have done remains a mystery" (your words). So in that respect we don't know the credibility of the poll then !! Which I guess makes it as worthless as my assumptions. "

Well you had the benefit of seeing the original and I did not. If it said that 80% of those polled were against hunting, then this should mean that the don't know/care group are included in the (assumed) pro-hunting numbers. If they said of those that expressed an preference 80% were against hunting, then we don't know the impact of the don't knows - and yes there might be a credibility gap, but any self respecting poll group would not then publish the figures in that fashion.

ALBF

"2) In terms of your second point, there is a link so far as cruelty to animals extends to food consumption as well. The production of Foie Gras is cruel and so is the shooting animals for sport. You can't be against one without being against the other unless you are hypocrite....IMHO. You are either for or against cruelty to animals. You can't sit there chomping on Foie Gras complaining about the local Chasse. "

One can argue that all captive animal food production has a degree of cruelty attached. I have seen geese being subjected to the gravage. Some is most definitely unpleasant and I think cruel is probably an understatement. However with a small producer I have seen the geese positively craning their necks to get the grain poured into their gullets. I could see no cruelty in this operation at all. This is where I get my (once a year) foie gras.

Similarly I don't see hunting per se as cruel. There are however groups who succeed in making it cruel (IMHO). I see no point in breeding foxes and releasing them to be chased down by a pack of dogs followed by a bunch of riders in fancy dress. (And yes some hunts have deliberately bred and released foxes - incredible though it might sound). However hunting foxes, wild boar and even deer as a pest, I do not see as being cruel, but as a way of rebalancing the environment. This is even more the case if the boar or deer is subsequently used as food. Perhaps our different views in this area just demonstrate the difference between townies (which you have become) and woolybacks (which I have become).

ALBF

"3) You said "Many Brits living in the country are less anti-hunt than the townies". How do you that ? . "

There have been several polls which have shown the differences between town and country folk.

Furthermore there is a group of activists trying to get a repeal of the act banning hunting of animals using dogs. They call themselves the Countryside Alliance - the clue to their origins lies in the first word of their name.

I have to admit to having a rather ambivalent view on hunting with dogs for fox. At school we have a lecture from a senior member of the RSPCA about the problems of foxes and means to control them. Gassing was considered as cruel since you could not accurately estimate the size of a lair. Too much gas and the fox would die a painful death gasping for breath, to little and you could permanently damage the lungs of the animal but not kill it (again cruel). Shooting was better but you ran a real risk of injuring rather than killing the animal with a real risk of slow death by gangrene. Poisoning was difficult because it was indiscriminate and bait could be taken by other animals (stoats and weasels) or by carrion or raptor birds. Traps were equally indiscriminate.

The conclusion back then was that as a means of pest control, hunting with dogs was probably the least cruel effective solution.

The RSPCA is certainly now strongly in favour maintaining UK legislation banning hunting with dogs. I wonder now what has changed, except perhaps that RSPCA membership has perhaps moved to the cities.

I certainly cannot condone chasing animals with dogs as sport, but as a means of pest control, what are we to do otherwise?