TAXES FONCIERE AND HABITATION

[Angie]

Can anyone tell me please if there is a way of checking whether we are paying the correct amount of F&H taxes, similar to the "Bands" that operate in the UK. Neighbours of ours had a new house constructed by the same company as us, both completed within a month of each other just over 4 years ago. Their property is 250m2, ours 136m2; however we have 2 acres more land but this is only agricultural. Our taxes are roughly the same - surely this can't be correct? The area is very rural but the annual taxes we ae paying seem very high - we had hoped to retire to France in a few years but our pensions wouldn't even cover the current monthly F&H tax bill!!

[AnOther]

To understand how the taxes are worked out I suggest you have a read here, you will see why comparison with UK's council tax bands is pointless.

http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/local-property-taxes/fonciere/

You are joking about your pensions not covering the monthly bill aren't you [blink]

 

[Pickles]

[quote user="Steve"]Their property is 250m2, ours 136m2; however we have 2 acres more land but this is only agricultural. Our taxes are roughly the same - surely this can't be correct?[/quote]

 From your comments, in your case the house would appear to be a second home: therefore you are not entitled to any reduction in TdH or TF. If your neighbours actually live in their house as their principal residence, then they will probably be in receipt of reductions that are not available to you.

Regards

Pickles

[minnie]

If either house has a pool then the taxes for that one would be much higher than the other.

[idun]

I think that over the years many have boasted on here about tiny bills for these taxes and they probably are still paying little.

However, in many parts of France these bills were always huge bills. In many places there seems little rhymn or reason as to how they are calculated and sometimes people manage to get reductions, big or little, and sometimes they do not.

As was said, second home owners pay more, you are not in the french tax system and these local bills and the national tax system link up for reductions and family size counts for a lot too.

We always paid a lot for not only these bills and our water was always expensive too. That is how it is in France I'm afraid.

My problem is that I cannot get them to take the money for our last bill, they refuse catagorically to have it, but as I don't trust them, am stuck with this amount in my bank waiting for them to change their minds.

Just seen your other post, have you got this sorted out now?

[suej]

 

[quote user="Pickles"]

 From your comments, in your case the house would appear to be a second home: therefore you are not entitled to any reduction in TdH or TF. If your neighbours actually live in their house as their principal residence, then they will probably be in receipt of reductions that are not available to you.

Regards
Pickles
[/quote]

 

 

I recently went to the Impots office to check that our house was registered as Residence Prinipale. The fellow I saw confirmed that it was and that this has an effect on the amount charged for Taxe d'Habitation but not on Taxe Foncière. I was a bit surprised because I previously had thought that the Secondaire/Principale status did affect both taxes.

Can anyone clarify please?

 

 

[AnOther]

Read the link I posted earlier, it explains all.

9.2.3. Tax Relief (Foncière)

There is an exemption from the tax for certain groups, although the net is not cast as wide as that of the local residence tax.

The following groups are granted relief from the tax:

• Persons over 75 years of age on 1st January, provided they meet the income criteria;
• Registered disabled persons irrespective of age in receipt of l'allocation aux adultes handicapés (AAH);
• Persons in receipt of l'allocation de solidarité aux personnes âgées (ASPA), or the l'allocation supplémentaire d'invalidité (ASI);
• Persons over 65 years of age on 1st January, and less than 75
  years, are entitled to a reduction of (at least) €100 in the amount
  payable, provided they meet the test of resources.

[suej]

 

 

 

Thank you AnOther, that does indeed explain it and tallies with what we were told. The man we saw did in fact spend some time clicking around the pages relative to us and checked on various things before telling us it made no difference to us. He didn't explain in much detail( probably because it was 10 to midi by then) but what you've posted clarifies it all. Thanks

Sue

[Angie]

Thanks everyone for your replies. No, I didn't expect the comparison to be the same as the UK council tax system but wondered if there was a similar way of comparing (i.e Band A, B etc. linked to value of property and location - otherwise it would be pure guesswork wouldn't it?). Yes, our house is a second home and our friends' is their permanent home (neither have a pool); however it is the calculations that are the same not what we actually pay - I do realise they get a reduction because it is their principal residence but wondered why a house that is almost twice the size as ours (with 2 more bathrooms than us) would be assessed as having the same taxes/rental value. Unfortunately AnOther I wasn't joking about our state pensions barely covering the taxes - combined they are in excess of 300 euros per month!! We would certainly need more than the 100 euro reduction on reaching 65 years of age.

[bixy]

That cannot be right - €3600 per annum? For our house - 6 pieces principales taxes foncieres is €275 per annum. Are you sure that isn't the annual figure?

Patrick

[AnOther]

It does seem extraordinarily high.

Unfortunately (yet again) a poster has chosen not to reveal their location in France so we are unable to judge if that could possibly be an influence.

[Pickles]

[quote user="AnOther"]It does seem extraordinarily high. Unfortunately (yet again) a poster has chosen not to reveal their location in France so we are unable to judge if that could possibly be an influence.[/quote]

If the OP is within the bounds of a large conurbation - the one I know most about being Montpellier - then 3600€ per annum for the combined TF and TdH is entirely possible - indeed, quite normal. Unless, of course, you live in Neuilly ...

Regards

Pickles

[idun]

Even in some parts of rural France these bills can be very high.

Go and see them and ask why.

[Angie]

Yes, 3,600 euros per year is what we are currently paying for both taxes.  AnOther, my initial post was to ask if there was a comparison website or banding available to check in France so didn't feel the need to give location at that time.  We are located in Aude at the very boundary with Ariege, edge of a very small village with no services or commerce.  Had we the facilities of Montpellier then perhaps it wouldn't seem so steep!!  Thanks all for your comments and advice. 

[suein56]

[quote user="Steve"]Yes, 3,600 euros per year is what we are currently paying for both taxes.  [/quote]

In that case if I were you I would take Idun's advice and go and ask the powers that be why the taxes are so very high.

Sue

[velcorin]

TF+H vary wildly. We pay EUR 3900/annum for a 3 bed flat on the outskirts of Paris, and EUR900 for a property in Creuse, which is effectively a 4 house lieu dit + 4 hectares. I know people nearby us (Meaux) who pay over EUR 6000 for a 3 bed house.

If it's a new property, and you haven't changed it since the initial assessment, you've got nothing to lose by asking.

[pachapapa]

I was a bit concerned to see that the Taxe Foncière had increased. Investigation shows that the Intercommunalité has increased from 3,24% to 3,40% representing a variation of + 6,67%; similarly the Départment has increased from 12,43% to 12,78% representing a variation of + 5,26%. I am glad to see that the frais de gestion de la fiscalité directe locale reamain the same at € 12.

So this year I will be paying a total of € 61 compared to the € 57 in the fiscal year 2009.

[debbie]

It appears to vary by Region as our tax bill does not show the same increases as you mention; however, we do have increases in other areas.

[robert8n]

Are the levels completely unrelated to income? I mean, if you are unemployed or low income, you may simply be unable to pay.

[lisa]

taxe d'habitation is income related but not the fonciers, if you can't pay tough, and you also get fined for not paying in time! and you still have to pay up , don't think there is a way of not paying.

[idun]

You only pay taxe fonciere if you own a property. It is basically an owners tax.

There are exemptions for certain very specific reasons, but most of us are supposed to be able to afford to pay these taxes on the properties we own.

[robert8n]

Many thanks for that, then I wonder if the house's status matters, ie (assuming income is low) reduction for primary residence, no reduction for secondary.

[idun]

No it doesn't work like that.

Honestly, if a person cannot afford to pay the bills on the property they own, shouldn't they sell it and live somewhere they can afford.

As I said there are exonerations, but they are for really specific things.

[Pommier]

There are never income related reductions for holiday homes, only for main residences.

[robert8n]

"Honestly, if a person cannot afford to pay the bills on the property they own, shouldn't they sell it and live somewhere they can afford."

And if they don't want to move, and cannot pay the taxes, send in the state thugs to evict them and confiscate their property, right? I disagree. All taxation levels should be related to income/wealth.

People who have worked hard all their lives, been responsible, saved and paid for their homes, should not be threatened with eviction when they fall on hard times and cannot pay taxes.