Oops

[idun]

Actually I hadn't paid that much for my sandals, they were in the sale and I had paid about 70€ and considering they lasted 10 years, well, they don't owe me anything. And I don't mind paying more for good comfy shoes, never have, I believe that they are a good investment.

So we have ascertained that both of us do not parlez-vous terrible well. And I too am a great one for studying human nature, and yet, we both have come to very different conclusions about the way french people behave re customer service.

Good for you, if you don't encounter regular rudeness, it simply isn't my experience and I cannot change that.

[alittlebitfrench]

I have to say Idun that people in the Loire Valley are cool. Moving to France. Skiing vs rudeness. It is a tough choice.

I was once in a queue for a ski lift many years back and there was this big 40 year old (ish) bloke that that barged his way through the queue with his skis trampling on anyone in his way. Someone shouted out ' I bet he is Parisian'. He replied 'nope, from Isére'.

[YCCMB]

Here's what I mean.

Recently, we needed a new part for our swimming pool. It's part of a bit of French-manufactured kit, and nothing is available other than from the manufacturer.

Their website is singularly unhelpful, and in order to get information regarding even the simple matter of where to get the part, you have to contact them, either by phone or using the contact form on their website.

So, I used the contact form. I asked them if they could let me know details (details) of their distributors in the area close to me, or if, indeed, they had any distributors in SE England, with details (details).

I got a swift reply - good. It said "We work with XYZ in Saintes"

No address, no phone or email details, just the name of the company.

So, I responded, asking for contact details (which is clearly asked for in my original email, and very swiftly I got a reply with those details.

All good, but why should it take a separate request from me to get the bleedin' obvious?

Or there was the time I paid the taxe d'hab, by cheque, to Lille, on time, and then got a demand with the majoration for non-payment. So I rang the Tresor. And they said they hadn't received payment, but not to worry, just send a new cheque direct to them and cancel the first one. Forget the majoration.

Did that, and a few weeks later, got a cheque back from the Tresor. After doing a bit of maths, I calculated that they'd received BOTH cheques, banked them and helped themselves to the majoration. So I rang them again. I explained that they were going to end up finding my first cheque would bounce, and that as a consequence they'd end up with my payment LESS the majoration, because they'd already refunded the difference, so they'd end up with less than the full amount.

" Why don't I just destroy your cheque" I suggested, "and then, when the cheque bounces (for they would not take my word that it would, despite me having cancelled it at their suggestion) you will end up with the full amount from my second cheque?"

"No, we can't do that. You must bank our cheque and then send us a new cheque for the difference. But first, we must all wait until our system advises us that your first cheque has bounced"

Eventually, they did agree to do it my way, and I would never criticise them for poor customer service, just a trenchant inability to think outside the box and a clear lack of any sort of communication.

Underscored when I popped in there several months ago to advise them of a change of UK address. I asked, for I have learned to ask, how I would know that the post-it note that the woman behind the counter wrote the details on, would find its way onto our dossier and that it had been pris en compte. I asked politely and in my Very Best French, and I got the Gallic shrug, and "You won't know" " So what shall I do? " I asked.

I was advised that I should wait until the time I thought the bill might arrive, and then make enquirers if it didn't. FGS.

Not long after, I mentioned it to my mate Martine, who works for the Impots, and she said "Oh, it's nothing to do with the Tresor, you need to tell the Impots". So I did, by email, from the UK, and got confirmation that all was hunky dory by return.

Yet at no point did the woman at the Tresor e ear proffer that information. And don't tell me she wouldn't have known.

Generational my posterior.

[alittlebitfrench]

Hmmm

But this is my problem.

My OH is French and we live a normal life in France. So does all of my Ohalfs extended family....and lets be clear there are a lot of them. LOL. So does all of our friends.

Nobody talks or complains 'in mainstream France' of such problems. Why do such problems only seem to happen to Expats ? Some of whom speak fluent French.

I don't get it. This is my point in terms of communication.

[Gardengirl]

albf, such things don't only happen to 'expats'!

Amongst our many French friends and neighbours I can barely think of anyone we know well and see often who doesn't have these things happen. Now they are from all over the country, Paris, Nantes, Dieulefit etc etc as well as locals, so that's quite a body of complaints of bad service.

I've heard tales of bad service from post offices, banks, electricity companies, shops etc etc that they have experienced, both where they used to live as well as here in the Gard.

I haven't come across much bad service in France myself; even the staff at the impots and post office seem helpful. My husband says it's because I have many years' experience of working with children with problems and their parents ..........

However, I had a recent awful experience when I accompanied a Dutch friend to a funeral director to sort out formalities. Her husband had died suddenly the night before, yet this man was totally unhelpful and unsympathetic towards this poor woman who was in shock. I can't put a review on Trip Advisor about him, but many, many people around here now know not to use a certain funeral director!

[YCCMB]

Perhaps they do, but you can't understand them, ALBF. Or maybe they've just all been ground down by it to the point they can't be bothered anymore.

BTW, my best friend since the age of 11 has lived and worked in France since 1976. She married a Frenchman, has 3 children and two grandchildren and a vast extended family. We're close and we talk. They live in Fontenay/s/Bois, in the 'burbs. She has worked in France since she first arrived. We see each other often. She tells me the same stuff I've just told you.

Maybe it's just you? Perish the thought.

[alittlebitfrench]

I understand everything Betty.

[Patf]

When all else fails, I resort to Geordie - 'es a funnien, wor albf. [;-)]

[alittlebitfrench]

[quote user="Patf"]When all else fails, I resort to Geordie - 'es a funnien, wor albf. [;-)]

[/quote]

Danke sehr...

[Chancer]

Nobody talks or complains 'in mainstream France' of such problems. Why do such problems only seem to happen to Expats ? Some of whom speak fluent French.

 

The vast majority know no different and are completely used to being treated as a thief the minute they walk into any shop or business (not my words but that of my best respected French friend)  - TBF that is definitely a peculiarity of where i live and the people are so proud of being rude, unhelpfull and hostile, Picard they call it, I would be ashamed, when I meet exceptional people, normal people to you and I complement them on their open-ness they always end up saying "good lord, don't go thinking I am a Picard, I'm originally from XYZ often the Pas de Calais only 10 kms away.

 

A neighbour recently said to me (my translation) "to give you an idea of in which measure i no longer feel Picard, i actually admire what you have done and think you deserve the success you are finally having, I am not jealous of you" he went on to say that he was ashamed to be Picard.

 

Now he is in his 60's and until 3 years ago had never been on a plane, boat or train, now his eyes have been opened and he is changed (spoiled) forever, for the better I am glad to say.

 

100% of French that I have met that have lived abroad complain about French Customer service, in fact they are the biggest critics.

[YCCMB]

What's ever so slightly amusing to me about this is that I'm being addressed as if I am either

A) An old fart with a bad attitude (I'll take that, BTW, but I'm generally quite nice and pleasant when dealing with bad service, for reasons which will become clear in a mo)

B) Unfamiliar with France, the French way of life and doing things, French culture and the Feench psyche ( I guess the accumulation of 30-odd years of either living in France, working in France, working for French companies and with French people must have been a complete waste of my time and theirs)

C) Recognised every time I open my mouth as a stupid foreigner who deserves a hard time because I'm a stupid foreigner.

All this is particularly amusing, as my last job was working in Training and development, where amongst other things, I had to design and deliver a training course which was rolled out to several hundred people, and which I wrote in English (as requested) but was subsequently required to deliver off the cuff in French (because it turned out that the French executives I was dealing with couldn't understand English). The subject of the training course? It was customer service. I got a thank you from a bloke called Carlos Ghosn. I think he works in mainstream France.

[idun]

I'd been in France for 19 years when I joined this board in 2000, and I reckon you would have loved all the rose coloured specs posts ALBF....... I did not. And those who wrote them did not appreciate my comments, which were purely based on my nearly two decades in France.

I have stayed in Le Mans, that is around your area isn't it? Maybe the rose coloured specs posters were not wrong in having a go at me...... if........ there is some little enclave of incredible loveliness. I just know what it was like where I lived.

You have me thinking of a dear french friend who talks very loudly most of the time. When we went to London, she was calm,  quietly spoken, almost unrecognisable...... and then we got to Paris on the way home and it was like she turned into the incredible hulk.

[suein56]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]Nobody talks or complains 'in mainstream France' of such problems.  [/quote]

Ahh, but they do, and I have met quite a lot in the 10 years that I have been living here ... it is just that you haven't come across such complaining French people in your mainstream life.

Sue

[alittlebitfrench]

The debate is out about being fluent in French (no reference to anyone just run of the mill fluent type people) and customer service perception.

I am fluent in English but I have not lived in the UK since the mid 1990's. I know how 1990's UK works but not 2015 UK.

At easter we went to the UK. Whilst we were there we wanted to go to London which was 50 miles away. I went to the Station the day before to buy the the tickets. All I wanted was a return for 2 adults and 2 children. Half a bloody hour I was there trying to understand all the different permutations. The lady serving was very rude as she did not understand that I did understand. I was struggling she was struggling and it was a mess. The tickets were overpriced and I had to pay for the car park. Which was another ticket because the machine was broken. The train was not very clean and between woking and waterloo I thought the train was going to fall over. It was like being on a boat.

I stayed clear of the tube as I had no idea how that worked in terms of buying tickets so we walked everywhere. Had a very horrible meal in bag type thing in a pub but apart from that it was a nice day out.

Don't get me started about the local pub near to where I was staying. Even the language has changed. I speak 1990's English and not 2015's English which generally consists of speaking with a false posh accent and saying darling after every other sentence. I was probably the only local there LOL.

I don't have any customer service problems in France and I am not fluent in French language but I am fluent in French....if you know what I mean.

Idun, in terms of glasses mine are blue tinted. Also, I would never recommend anyone moving to France without a proper French cdi contract job and to those retiring only to a large town/city. Regardless to my advice, thousands are moving to France and thousands are moving back again. English people (probably fluent in French) seem only to buy houses of other English people and it is one happy circle of misery.

[Cendrillon]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]The debate is out about being fluent in French (no reference to anyone just run of the mill fluent type people) and customer service perception.

I am fluent in English but I have not lived in the UK since the mid 1990's. I know how 1990's UK works but not 2015 UK.

At easter we went to the UK. Whilst we were there we wanted to go to London which was 50 miles away. I went to the Station the day before to buy the the tickets. All I wanted was a return for 2 adults and 2 children. Half a bloody hour I was there trying to understand all the different permutations. The lady serving was very rude as she did not understand that I did understand. I was struggling she was struggling and it was a mess. The tickets were overpriced and I had to pay for the car park. Which was another ticket because the machine was broken. The train was not very clean and between woking and waterloo I thought the train was going to fall over. It was like being on a boat.

I stayed clear of the tube as I had no idea how that worked in terms of buying tickets so we walked everywhere. Had a very horrible meal in bag type thing in a pub but apart from that it was a nice day out.

Don't get me started about the local pub near to where I was staying. Even the language has changed. I speak 1990's English and not 2015's English which generally consists of speaking with a false posh accent and saying darling after every other sentence. I was probably the only local there LOL.

I don't have any customer service problems in France and I am not fluent in French language but I am fluent in French....if you know what I mean.

Idun, in terms of glasses mine are blue tinted. Also, I would never recommend anyone moving to France without a proper French cdi contract job and to those retiring only to a large town/city. Regardless to my advice, thousands are moving to France and thousands are moving back again. English people (probably fluent in French) seem only to buy houses of other English people and it is one happy circle of misery.[/quote]

Goodness me ALBF what a terrible experience!

For future reference you probably needed a one day travel card for your rail journey to London. This would enable you to use the train and underground in central London zones on the same ticket.

The pub experience, I don't think you can tar all pubs with the same brush.

As for the thousands moving to France and one happy circle of misery comment, what's all that about?!

[alittlebitfrench]

Cendrillion, I was just making the point that fluency (like I am in English) is not always enough to understand how things work. I had bad customer service 'moments' in the UK but that was largely down to me not knowing the system/culture. It does not put me off going, as we are all again at Christmas. Twice in one year. Might catch another train if I can afford it.

Reference pubs, as a 'customer' I am very disappointed that the pool table is now a Chestefield sofa and the fruit machine is now the Sunday newpapers. A glass of Picpoul de pinet is 12 pounds and for that price you would expect them to spell it correctly on the chabby chic blackboard. LOL. What happen to pubs ?

Reference, happy circle of misery. Not all of the thousands moving back to the UK are missing their grandchildren. It is another debate. Or maybe it is the same debate.

[YCCMB]

That's cos you didn't visit mainstream UK.?

[NormanH]

That's cos you didn't visit mainstream UK.?

AAAARRRffff [:D][:P]

[alittlebitfrench]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]That's cos you didn't visit mainstream UK.?[/quote]

In mainstream UK do women walk around in pubs in bare feet ?

Once I was at a motorway service station in France not far from Calais. A young women gets out of a very 'expensive' UK reg car (whilst her partner fills it up) and walks towards the main building in bare feet. All hippy like. I thought to myself you are not going to the loo are you. Please no. According to my OH she did. Yuk. I wonder if she was fluent in French ?

Anyway, I was in the UK in our wonderful local pub and two separate women were in bare feet. Walking about as if it was normal. One was even playing scrabble ????. Since when do people (younger than me !!!!) play scrabble in pubs in bare feet. I am not surprised the dart board has been replaced by a chabby chic blackboard.

We are all going to watch Star Wars at the cinema in the UK when it opens in December. The question is, will we look out of place if we turn up in shoes ?

[NormanH]

I think that the French do their own sort of customer service well, in the small-scale one to one shops and cafés I go to  which we discussing elsewhere.

What they do very badly is the Anglo-American style customer service in businesses such as Orange or EDF and some of the 'stores' such as Conforama.

The personal level is fine, as I found the other day when I used Bla Bla car yet again and the young chap was so concerned for my comfort when he heard I was handicapped that he borrowed his parents' car which was bigger than his own.

However if I had tried to get help from the SNCF  website ...

[:-))]

[idun]

ALBF, so we really have come full circle here. You've been in France for 20 years as I had been (just about) when I first came on this board.

You say you are 'blue' tinted specs, well from my point of view they seem very rose, I do not recognise what you are saying, have not experienced it and it seems it is beyond my whit to even comprehend that this is how your life is in your particular part of France.

And I feel like you are accusing of the likes of me of not acting in a due and proper manner in another culture and not trying to adapt to 'different' ways.

I could write a book about french rudeness and it would be very long. I keep a good humour about it, because it simply is what it is...... although, my have I learnt how to rale when I need to.

You mentioned trouble getting tickets and prices in the UK. Well last time I was in Grenoble, I couldn't manage the tram ticket machine at all, and everyone ignored me until one young man took pity on me and helped. And then the train, Geneva /Chambery very expensive now, gone up well over 60%. In fact many fares I needed were dear.

[alittlebitfrench]

Idun

I could write a book on French Customer service and I could write a book on UK customer service as experienced as someone (not by choice) as a foreigner that is fluent in English.

I suspect it will be the same book translated into two languages.

[Judith]

Anyone who thinks the the London tube is difficult and compares it with the Paris metro for not just buying tickets but also ease of understanding the system and getting around it is definitely in cloud cuckooland. 

I've used them both and know which one works and which one doesn't!

[YCCMB]

U.K. Customer service. Oh, that would be the one where they let you start and cancel all sorts of things online, where you can set up or end a contract or direct debit with a simple phone call. Where you don't have to pay for a recorded delivery letter to subsidise La Poste as well as the company you're writing to every time you want them to do something...bref, where life is made easy for the customer.

Where they care about customer service to the irritating point that whatever you buy and wherever you buy it from, they're onto you with a text or an email before you've unpacked it, wanting you to rate your "customer experience"

Yeah, in your book, when you write it, I can see that chapter being exactly the same for France. Not.

[alittlebitfrench]

Questions Betty.

Why do you have a second home in France ?

What do you love about France ?