General Politeness

[Chrissie]

OK, so we play in golf competitions, and usually we don't play well enough to win anything.  No probs!  But as a matter of courtesy we go to the evening prize-giving and applaud the lucky s**s who have....

Now in the UK ( well, ooop north where we came from) this is generally a matter for almost-silence, so we can all hear who got how many points and who they are and give them a resounding round of applause (while saying out of the corners of our mouths "Who???...!!!"    But here, oh no, it's everyone talk (really loudly), and only clap someone you know well, and stuff the rest!  Rather sad, I think.

Am I weird (or just old fashioned?)

Chrissie   (81)

[SaligoBay]

Don't know, Chrissie, maybe sport brings out the worst in French people.

My French neighbour's son used to do judo.  She said she was absolutely horrified the first time she went to see him in a competition.  She said the other mothers were absolute savages, no interest in fair play or may the best man win, they were screaming "Kill him!" (among other things!) when their sons were doing their stuff.

Now where did I read recently about the French football team not being a team, just 11 individuals, was it on here?

 

[Cjb]

Didn't the English have a habit of smashing up European Cities and abusing and attacking the locals when we lost (or even won) football matches?

The French team may well be 11 individuals, but let's not forget the last time we won anything was 38 years ago, whilst the French have won the world's two most prestigious trophies within the last 6 years.

Don't get me wrong, when England play France it's England I'm cheering for, but I wouldn't go to an England away match due to the trouble that a significant minority of our travelling supporters create (I appreciate there was relatively little trouble at Euro 2004, but we did have to issue more than 2000 banning orders to limit the trouble and even still we saw rioting in the streets back home).

[SaligoBay]

Unreal, JCB, are you always this aggressive, or have you been overdosing on the testosterone tablets?!  

I was going to put a P.S. on my post saying "please don't let this degenerate into a pointless well-it's-even-worse-in-England thread" but then I thought no,  because we're mostly pretty reasonable adult folks, and beyond the level of that knee-jerk thing.   Clearly I was wrong! 

If you read the posts again without your self-righteous blinkers on, you'll find it's actually nothing to do with who wins how many football matches.  Must be a Bloke Thing, eh?

Now take the blinkers off, and insert a sense of humour somewhere.  Even a small one in suppository form would be better than nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cjb]

"Don't know, Chrissie, maybe sport brings out the worst in French people."

My post was simply in response to this and the comment about the french team being a group of individuals rather than a team.

Surely it's valid to comment on the fact that sport doesn't always bring out the best in the English either. I'm not seeing this as an English/French issue, it's just that I feel that when we make comments about the French and how they're not like "us", I feel that it's only fair to remind ourselves about our own people and how we can sometimes be perceived.

I really can't see that as being overly aggressive. Or are we all supposed to conform to one shared idea/belief??

[Russethouse]

Yep - the Brits have had some problems with trouble makers at continental matches, I believe those issues are being tackled.

But where did the French ever get the expresion 'esprit de corps' ? If ever there was a group of people who lack it, it must be they, a thought which I have had confirmed by several French friends, who admit that their order of priorities is me, myself and I. No wonder the French football team was described thus.

CJB, before you start -of course its a generalisation but this IS my experience, it may not be yours!

[Miki]

JCB, here exactly is the point that I tried to make before.

More experience on this site would have shown you that SB, has her tongue permanently in her cheek and is a well educated lass who enjoys a bit of fun. No one else came bounding in to decry her purely innocent posting as they know her. She even tried to tell you so in her 2nd reply but no, you felt she must be further told about the error of her jesting post.

Look at it like this, you don't rush in to a strange pub and start screaming the odds, well I wouldn't, not where I hailed from I always preferred the hooter in the middle, eye either side of that and an ear on each side, rather than end up as a bad copy of a Picasso 

Surely one gets to know the locals, sees how the land lies and then hopefully start up a bit of a chat and away you go, there not exactly how you might see it but anyway, it is what I and perhaps many others would do. Then of course get stuck in !!!

SB is a goodun and doesn't deserve such a stupid attack, goodness me, all she knows about soccer is David Ginola and other muscular hunks and probably doesn't give 2 hoots about soccer or its fans just the legs will do and head will do, oh and perhaps other little things.........

 

[Russethouse]

Little things ?

(well we can all dream.........)

[Pantouflard]

Now, I'm new to all this but I'm having difficulty understanding the unwritten rules. I've got a bit of time on my hands at the moment so I have been all nerdy and followed up some of the nuances.  What I can't understand is why everyone (well a few) jumps down cjb's throat as soon as he makes a point.  Granted they seem to be a bit contentious, but no more than many other responses, so why him (or her)?  I know there was a little spat going on on another thread but that seemed 6 of one & half a dozen of the other.  Is there some history I've missed?  Do tell. 

[SaligoBay]

[quote]Little things ? (well we can all dream......... )[/quote]

You beat me to it, Gay, I was going to tell Miki that little things are of no interest to me.

Good point about the "me, myself, I", or "chacun pour soi" as TeamedUp once put it.  Understanding that goes a long way to being able to deal with the peccadilloes of rude fonctionnaires, shop staff, etc.

But golf!!  My dad was invited for a round of golf with a Dutchman a couple of weeks ago.  I sent him off with a hat on his head, a bottle of water, and 70 euros in his wallet, thinking ha ha it was more than enough for a day out.

Silly me - one round of golf, with the purchase of 3 golf balls, 67 euros!!    He said it was a very nice course, but still, at that price he won't be doing it again!  He didn't even have enough money left for something to eat at lunchtime, poor old soul!

Ah well, at least he can educate people back home about how France isn't as cheap as you think it is!  

 

 

 

[Will]

I thought the title of this topic was 'general politeness'? Even Miki has been the epitome of good manners. So I too was disappointed to see yet another 'let's knock the English' contribution.

I happen to feel quite insulted by these things, I'm proud to be English in the same way that the French are proud of their nationality, and I know that by saying that I'm likely to be marked down as a BNP or UKIP supporter rather than the liberal-minded individual I really am.

[Teamedup]

We are talking abut apres golf here aren't we.  Not le foot, or any sort of sport where rowdiness is often associated with it.

So I would have been perturbed by this too.

[Russethouse]

Pantouflard, cjb is in love, with his wife, his in- laws and France......lovely, but he seems to be out of love with anything British and hasn't worked out yet that you can love two (or more)things or places, much as you love two, or more children, (loving the newborn doesn't mean you love the existing child/children any less)

Of course I could be wrong, and I am sure he will say that I am, but thats the impression I get from his postings

[Pantouflard]

Thanks for that Gay.  I've just relooked at his last 50 posts (said I had time on my hands!) and whilst there are some which possibly fit your description they don't seem to stand out particularly from other posters. 

I suppose in this case it was a bit crass but I still think there is a tendency to gang up.

[Cjb]

I often look at this site with my wife. I'm English and she's French. We've both lived in one another's native countries and have a great fondness for them. It seems to me that on LF one can say what the hell they like about the French and yet people are up in arms at the slightest criticism of dear old blighty. Surely, one of the great advantages of living abroad is that it not only teaches us a great deal about a new country and culture it also makes us reflect upon the culture of our native country.

As I see it, there are around 10 posters on this site who seem to think it's their private playground. Upset one and you'll upset them all. Regardless of this I'll happily post my opinions, whether or not they are to the liking of all members. I try to avoid making personal comments and stick to the subject matter rather than passing comment on the poster themselves.

I've grown used to being called a snob, egotistical, "a silly little man" etc..... and don't let this get to me, as after all, I don't know the people that post these messages and they don't know me.

I'm proud to be British, despite what some may think, but that doesn't mean for one second that I'd relent from criticising Britain if I felt it was justified.

Of course everything isn't perfect in France, far from it. The bureaucracy is a nightmare and here in (06) manners are slightly different from those that I was used to in England.

In all honesty, I take my hat off to those who have sold up, moved to France and made a success of it. By having a French wife I have been undoubtedly spared many of the challenges that they have had to face.

As Voltaire said "I may despise you for what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it."

[opas]

Regarding the original post about general politeness,I have come to the conclusion that it must be a french thing to talk over `bits` that in the UK wouldn`t be acceptabe, a few examples being; Last Rememberance day the Opas clan did their usual duty(as per UK standards) and listened to the speaches for the war dead as did a lot of our neighbours......but some ,in their own little worlds ,drove speedily past in their deisel cars,so nothing could be heard....where were they going on a bank holiday that couldn`t have waited 10 mins or gone earlier!

Then you have the Christmas concert at school,of course it is a get together ,see people you havn`t seen for a while,but you wait while after the `spectacle` has finished...not the french mums,had to shhh them all the time....me the only English mum there ,didn`t go down too well¬

Then the new years bash at the Mairie.....yap,yap yap,all through his speach,ok ,they have probably had the same one for years ,but he was providing their daily intake(and more) of booze and food.

could go on but I would sound racist,I`m not I love France and have some nice friends here but......

[SaligoBay]

Full marks to Opas for getting us back on topic.

In a country where little politenesses are adhered to, lots of bonjours in the boulangerie and all that, it is indeed a surprise to have a load of mums yakking through a children's theatre performance.

Has anyone got any sensible insights into this little phenomenon?

btw, is Chrissie still with us?

[JohnM]

I can only comment on the annoying habit of talking during Theatrical performances. This is certainly not just a french habit. I have experienced it far too many times in the UK. Particularly in the overture of musicals (Despite seeing the show a number of times, I don't think I have ever really heard the opening of Blood Brothers without some prat bleating on about some trivial matter). I blame the TV. In the home it's OK to chat, f**t, cough etc, as and when the fancy takes - people forget (or don't care) that those same activities may spoil somebody elses night out when in the theatre / cinema.

 

[Jirac18]

So after the stunning victory at the Ryder Cup are we to assume that at the after match dinner and presentations everyone was sat nicely and quietly apart from Thomas Levet (France's sole team member) who must have been ranting and screamin "kill him" at Hal sSutton the USA captain and rudely talking over everyone else!

It takes all sorts I guess. There are rude people and impolite people whatever the arena. Generally I don't find the French any less polite than the British. Apart from queuing that is but thats been discussed before.

Any way whilst on a midly golf related topic - WELL DONE EUROPE

 

 

[Catalpa]

<< In a country where little politenesses are adhered to, lots of bonjours in the boulangerie and all that, it is indeed a surprise to have a load of mums yakking through a children's theatre performance.

Has anyone got any sensible insights into this little phenomenon? >>

I've no insight, just further confirmation. Our village had it's usual summer fete day last year and booked a comedian / impressionist to round off the event. The UK contingent in the audience had never been more conspicuous. Scattered around the 200 attendees were pockets of intent British faces turned towards the stage, realistically probably only understanding a tiny part of what he was saying. Everyone else in his audience got on with the serious matter of drinking, gossip and catchup. The comedian didn't seem phased at all. I suppose it is just a culture thing.

Carole

[Blackadder<IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Blackadder<BR>Keighley and Creuse]

It takes all sorts I suppose

My 70 odd year old father (very much the old school and brought me  up that way, I'm 38)

was in Normandy with his whole family a couple of years ago (thats his son and two daughters and assorted husbands wives and kids) H e took his sport mad 11 yr old grandsons to watch a local footie match and they all clapped and cheered every good play and commiserated the poor play. They had a great FREE viewing and at the end of the match both teams, thats 22 players for the mathematically challenged filed past them shaking hands and saying Merci Monsieur.

My dad doesn't speak a word of french but was moved to tears and had to sit down in a quiet corner for a while to 'pull himself together'

The lads both stand on the terraces every week and cheer and chant their local side, Huddersfield Town, stop laughing. Both are grand lads and are being brought up to be polite and to respect people, not just 'elders'.

I used to ride a Police Horse at Leeds Utd matchs, 40,000 people, 200 yobs, Thats 0.5% Of course the media hypes up the yob side because it wouldn't sell a paer with a headline of 39800 people behaved yesterday.

I'm rambling but, take as you find. Don't pigeon hole folk and get on with your lives, never mind 'you're along time dead' You are a long time alive!

[Miki]

................40,000 people, 200 yobs, Thats 0.5% Of course the media hypes up the yob side because it wouldn't sell a paper with a headline of 39800 people behaved yesterday.

BA,

Without meaning just to pick a morsel to dissect, I have to say, you really do mirror my thoughts on "thugs dressed as supporters" in soccer.

I have watched and played football since knee high to a shin pad and it has always been the same. The tiny minority you mention, are the ones who really do not have a clue about tactics, players, history of the game or even the very team they claim to "support", so more or less Zilch !

As Cloughie (RIP "one" off wonderful man) once said, if these thugs had no football to watch they would just find another sport to latch on to.  True soccer fans (the other 99.5%) are no threat or mean no harm to anyone or anything, they are simply lovers of the game and as you state :

"Read all about it, 39.800 behaved impeccably today at Chelsea" yes, you are right,  it wouldn't sell one extra copy even!! 

You put it well BA.

 

[Iceni]

TTBOMKAB I have only watched 13 professional football matches (9 of which were in London in 1966) so do not pretend to know much about it so will risk asking a stupid question of B/adder - how many police were deemed necessary to control the 200 yobs ?

John

[Blackadder<IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Blackadder<BR>Keighley and Creuse]

Thats a tougher question to answer than this topic started as....

Leeds v Blackburn Rovers. 8 Police Horses, 4 dogs and say 60 officers.

Leeds V Man Utd.  24 Horses, 6 or more if poss dogs and upwards of 200 foot bobbies. All away from normal policing. It gets my back up. The bobbies have to patrol both the fans and also the car parks to try to stop car crime. The car parks are private affairs and people pay 3 or 4 quid to park on an old slag heap or similar. The collector of cash beggars off at 3.01pm with his hard earned cash leaving the bobbies to patrol. Same goes for the players car park, all those lovely £80k cars etc get looked after. The club pays a grand total of 'zilch' for all this policing outside the ground. They only pay for police inside and with stewards thats a far reduced number to years ago. It's a tough call for bosses tho' if it all turns pear shaped and they decided to send too few bobbies.......so they tend to over egg the pudding somewhat.

Meanwhile back on the mean streets of the rest of Britain...theres a deficit of bobbies cos there all at the footy!

Thanks, now I 've got that off my chest.

[Cjb]

Perhaps a little more expensive than hushing up the french at a golf soirée! Dare I say that us Brits (despite our Queensbury rules) should perhaps retreat within our glass houses and leave the stone throwing to someone else.

Proud to be British, but trying to keep my eyes wide open. Perhaps some of us are attracted to France by our rose-tinted glasses and then after a little while away don those very same glasses when we reminisce about dear old blighty.