French tv via our uk tele?

[nephilim]

We have a uk tele that is PAL only, we have a french video that we have connected an ariel to and can pick up about 5 french channnels but the output is black & white on the tv.

Is there a way that we can somehow pick up french channels via our skybox to get over this problem (sky output is fine) or is there a non contract french satellite system (we just want to buy the box with no monthly cost) that we can get a few french channels that would work on a PAL tv and run along with our sky box. We don't really want to buy a new tv if there is a way around the problem.

The kids wont watch the b/w version and we think it important for them to watch as much as possible to help with the language etc (and us too!).

[Bob T]

Connect the Video and TV with a scart lead and see what happens.

[Gyn_Paul]

[Martin963]

The video to TV via Scart method rarely works,  although you can try.

However,  if you insert certain DVD recorders in the signal path you should (repeat should) get colour as a lot of them (certainly the Philips range) transcode SECAM to PAL.  Again,  use the DVD recorder (bought in France of course,  not the UK) as your "tuner" instead of the video,  and then link to the TV via SCART.   Do check before buying that you can return the item if it doesn't do the job.

There are plans for a satellite "relay" of all the TNT (digital terrestrial TV) channels to bring these programmes to the parts of France that cannot (yet) receive them via UHF transmissions.   There will be a one off payment for a card (thought to be €20 or thereabouts) and "promotional" prices for a suitable box.   It is likely that these broadcasts will be on Atlantic Bird 3,  5 deg west,  and scrambled with Viacess.   You will need a French address as the cards will not be sold outside the hexagon.   With a suitable box you would get colour on your UK TV,  particularly if you use the Scart lead.

A Sky box is not suitable,  but as a stop gap you can buy a cheap free to air digital satellite box and set it up on AB3.  This will - for the moment - get you the public service TV channels (2,3,5,Arte, Parl).  However,  a FTA box will not be any good for the up and coming TNT relay service mentioned above,  so don't fork out unless you are desperate.   The transmissions of these public service channels may well only be for the next year or so,  and will then disappear due to a technical quirk too complicated to explain here!

[Gyn_Paul]

[quote user="Martinwatkins"]

The video to TV via Scart method rarely works,  although you can try.

However,  if you insert certain DVD recorders in the signal path you should (repeat should) get colour as a lot of them (certainly the Philips range) transcode SECAM to PAL.  Again,  use the DVD recorder (bought in France of course,  not the UK) as your "tuner" instead of the video,  and then link to the TV via SCART.   Do check before buying that you can return the item if it doesn't do the job.

There are plans for a satellite "relay" of all the TNT (digital terrestrial TV) channels to bring these programmes to the parts of France that cannot (yet) receive them via UHF transmissions.   There will be a one off payment for a card (thought to be €20 or thereabouts) and "promotional" prices for a suitable box.   It is likely that these broadcasts will be on Atlantic Bird 3,  5 deg west,  and scrambled with Viacess.   You will need a French address as the cards will not be sold outside the hexagon.   With a suitable box you would get colour on your UK TV,  particularly if you use the Scart lead.

A Sky box is not suitable,  but as a stop gap you can buy a cheap free to air digital satellite box and set it up on AB3.  This will - for the moment - get you the public service TV channels (2,3,5,Arte, Parl).  However,  a FTA box will not be any good for the up and coming TNT relay service mentioned above,  so don't fork out unless you are desperate.   The transmissions of these public service channels may well only be for the next year or so,  and will then disappear due to a technical quirk too complicated to explain here!

[/quote]

Oh go on....

[nephilim]

Thanks for the input. The tv and video are presently connected via a scart so that hasn't helped unfortunately. We do not have a dvd recorder and that will probably set us back the same as a new tv. The new satellite plans seem like an option when it appears, as long as it will work via our tv.

[Martin963]

I should have said - you could try a TNT box direct off your roof aerial;  this will output RGB via a Scart which would suit your UK TV.   However,  you need to be in a TNT area - not all of France is covered yet.   So don't buy until you are sure.   See http://www.espace-numerique.fr/?current=5022

The FTA public channels will probably go "invisible" on AB3 digital when the final TNT multiplex is activated (R5).  The operators have hired 3 transponders on AB3 for distribution of the TNT feed signals to the tx network.   They are using Newtech encoders and decoders which are capable - using a fast symbol rate - of cramming twice the number of channels onto a transponder than using conventional MPEG2.   This saves on costs with no loss of quality.  At the moment five TNT multiplexes are running,  so four are Newtech'd onto 2 transponders,  and the last (carrying France TV 2,3,5,Parl,Arte) is by itself on the third,  using MPEG2.   When the sixth multiplex gets going we will probably lose this "feed".

At that point the new card free to view system should be up and running.

But there - you really didn't want to know did you...........?!

[Danny]

Martin

Any idea when "the card free to view system" might take place ?

Danny

[Martin963]

In theory by the end of the year.  But as there has been no official announcement I wouldn't count on it.   My info comes from Telesatellite Numerique magazine - they normally have their facts right,  but they are saying that the official date will be missed.

The whole thing is being pushed by the government on the basis that it hardly is "egale" to have only part of France covered by free to view/air digital transmissions;  TF1 and M6 are resisting to their last breath,  but as their main commercial golden goose has now been swallowed up by the competitor (TPS being taken over by Canalsatellite) there seems little point in their fighting on.

A card system will be very useful for those of us who have an address in France but will take the card straight back to the UK!! 

[hoverfrog]

we put up with B&W TV for over a year. No amount of re-routing via different cables helped. When we finally bit the bullet and bought a french TV the youngest (4 yrs) was amazed to find that all her cartoons were in colour - and that the newsreaders were the same colour as us!!

[Smiley]

I have a UK telly in France. I Bought a 99euro DVD/Video player from Champion and now get the French through this (Scart lead) and UK through Sat box no problem. It might be worth checking your Scart lead has all the pins there, we had one with some missing and this gave us problems.

[Gyn_Paul]

[quote user="Smiley"]I have a UK telly in France. I Bought a 99euro DVD/Video player from Champion and now get the French through this (Scart lead) and UK through Sat box no problem. It might be worth checking your Scart lead has all the pins there, we had one with some missing and this gave us problems.[/quote]

Not just all the pins: it's worth taking the lead apart and checking it is fully wired, too.

p

[nephilim]

I have looked at our scart leads, even tried 3 different ones but still just b/w. There are 20 pins on the scarts, they are uk ones, are french ones different? Smiley, you said you have a uk tv and your setup works ok, is your tv like ours, PAL only, or is it SECAM aswell? We were in castorama today and noticed a cheap freeview french system on offer for about €30 (box & dish), we didn't go for it because we weren't sure that again this would work via our uk tv, any thoughts?

[Smiley]

My TV is a Watson PAL System. The Video/DVD accepts the French TV (for video recording) but the Scart comes must come out as PAL because the TV won't work without going through the Video.

I also have Sky linked through the same video and that works fine too.

[Gyn_Paul]

[quote user="nephilim"]

I have looked at our scart leads, even tried 3 different ones but still just b/w. There are 20 pins on the scarts, they are uk ones, are french ones different? Smiley, you said you have a uk tv and your setup works ok, is your tv like ours, PAL only, or is it SECAM aswell? We were in castorama today and noticed a cheap freeview french system on offer for about €30 (box & dish), we didn't go for it because we weren't sure that again this would work via our uk tv, any thoughts?

[/quote]

As I understand it - and martin will wade in and correct me if I'm (wildly as opposed to semantically) wrong - your french video is outputting a 'composite' video signal to your PAL TV; that is, the video signal comes down one pair of wires and is a mixed waveform of the luminance, chrominance and syncs which your PAL set gallantly attempts to unscramble. It manages to find the luminance and sync pulses (thus giving you a stable b&w picture) but not the chroma information for the colour.

What your TV really needs is a 'component' signal, where the feed for the red, green, and blue guns in the picture tube come down 3 separate pairs of wires in the scart cable (plus the syncs, plus the L & R sound etc on other wires.) so the issue of the colour encoding system of the sending and receiving 'boxes' doesn't arise.

Go back to castorama and open a box and look at the back page of the instructions and see if there is a technical specification which hopefully includes information about its output. Or buy one on the understanding that you can return it if it doesn't work.

I don't know enough about the TNT boxes to know if their spec is for component: I would have thought so, though.

Of course, there is the other possibility..... You TV might have a scart socket which is composite in only, in which case you are what happens to those threaded nail things when they are inserted!

p

[Martin963]

Spot on,  I'm not even going to get my toes wet!

VCR's very rarely handle anything other than composite signals (which they leave in the same colour format) -  although there was someone on here a few years back who had a fancy one that did either transcode SECAM to PAL or regenerate RGB components.

A French DVD recorder will almost certainly do it (certainly the Philips range do), but I was interested in the comment that a combined VCR/DVD player does too.   I hadn't thought of that.   I seem to remember Mazan saying a long time ago that the DVD spec (even though it concerns itself with MPEG and the like) does in some way rule out SECAM so whilst you wouldn't think that at €99 they could afford to convert SECAM to RGB it seems that the model mentioned above actually does.  Very interesting.

[Gyn_Paul]

With more and more functions being fitted on fewer and fewer chips I'd like to think we are heading towards a time when a significant proportion of manufacturers come round to Philps' way of thinking re their tuners. That is, it's much easier, in the long run, to make one model which does everything suited for every market.

Now wouldn't that be nice ?

p

ps Whatever happened to Mazan ? I miss his occasional rants !

[Martin963]

I think Mazan might still look occasionally,  but as I understand it he objected to a revision of this forum's rules,  something to do with advertising,  and "withdrew".

I think we all miss his expertise,  although it has to be said that he occasionally seemed to argue on minor technicalities to the point of absurdity.

And if that doesn't get him to contribute now I think we can assume he's not even "lurking".

If you ARE looking Mazan we'd all like you back

[Graham & Brenda]

I get my UK free to air TV channels through a dish and a "Metronic" brand decoder (if that's the correct name for the box). My French TV comes from an aerial.

Can I install a TNT box (saw a Metronic one in Geant today for €39) alongside the existing Metronic box and would I need any additional special leads or adaptors to do so? (I have spare scart cables). Thanks,

 

[nephilim]

So, do you think that a french dvd recorder would get us the colour picture on the french channels? Does any where do these on a basis where if it did not do the trick I could take it back? Or do I go the extra satellite just for the french channels, but again would that work on our PAL tv. I just want the cheapest easiest option to keep the kids watching french tele, thanks for the posts though.

[David]

Martinwatkins, I fully agree with your sentiments about Mazan.  I think that his departure was a great loss to this forum.

As I understand it, but I may be wrong, Mazan withdrew from this forum after a very heated and personal exchange on a post concerning hunting.

I too miss his expertise, and I would very much welcome his return to this forum, as I think that he contributed far more than most to the knowledge base here.  He usually discussed technical subjects of which I had little or no knowledge, but he made it understandable.

Please come back Mazan.

David

 

[Martin963]

@ Graham & Brenda

Provided you are in a TNT served area (check the website http://www.tdf.fr/tnt-cartes-couverture/) then you should be able to use both boxes.  It is a LOT easier if your TV has two SCART inputs because you can plug one box to each.  But if not you should be able to daisy chain them;  generally the one "furthest away" from the TV takes control,  so to watch the nearer one you need to switch off the further one.   Personally I find the purchase of a selector box a more reliable way of doing it - they are about €20 in the grandes surfaces - and allow you to plug in a recorder as well so that you can watch one box while recording another if you get the right selector.   But check your TNT reception -  TNT doesn't get out of bed unless a) there is a service and b) your existing picture (from the same main station,  not some relay) is pretty good.

@ nephilim - well I'm not going to put my head on the block but the Philips range of DVD recorders DOES convert SECAM to PAL.   When I was in the same situation I asked at Carrefour and was told I could bring it back within seven days for a full refund - no questions asked.   But check the exact situation - I tried to take back a modem which never worked properly after six weeks (we'd had to go back to the UK in the meantime to - amongst other things - get one that did,  and I had a terrible job to get a refund.

But to be honest it would be cheaper to get a French cathode ray TV......?  (and better picture quality than all these LCD/plasma jobs).

Shame the two Philips DVD recorders I have have such rubbish software on them - a well known criticism of them.

As to what you should buy - satellite FTA or DVD recorder or simple French system L SECAM TV - it all depends on your budget and tastes - I'm only sorry that it is all so complicated.

[cooperlola]

Regional encoding (common to the whole of Europe - we are all in Region 2) also affects what you can play on DVD recorders.  Also, watch the difference between DVD+R and -R and DVD RAM, not much to choose for recording quality but the costs of the blank discs do vary and are not interchangeable between recorders if you have more than one/change them in the future.  If you can afford it, buy a recorder with a hard drive which takes all 3 types of disc.  It will cut down your consumable costs enormously and will allow you to archive the stuff you really want to keep onto disc, and you can cut out any ads before doing so.

 If you go for a switcher box as recommended above, get one with a remote as it's a faf jumping up and down all the time to change from one device to another.

Pioneer Plasma TVs have had excellent reviews and mine is superb.  It has 4 scart outlets so services both my UK and French satelite boxes, plus DVD recorder and the video camera all at once.  Also, makes transferring video to DVD very simple, if that's your bag.  I do not concur with the above estimation of cathode tube tellies.  French friends of mine have one and the picture quality is awful after my Plasma, and the screen is 2/3rds the size (it also takes up loads of room).  But if you buy Plasma, do get long-term guarantees as the technology is still relatively young.

[Jc]

The only concern with Plasma TV's is the amount of power they consume-can be upto 10 times more than CRT/LCD.

[Martin963]

Be careful about which DVD recorder you get if you are going to use it for standards conversion.

For example the Panasonic range of DVD recorders sold in the UK are NOT suitable for recording or watching French analogue TV broadcasts (which is what this thread was asking about in the first place).  That's probably why I've never seen them on sale in France in spite of the fact they are excellent machines.   Their tuners (UHF only in this case) will not cope with system L or SECAM colour.  

Whilst you could take one of these Panasonics to France and record with a Scart lead from a Sky Digibox,  a TNT tuner, or a digital FTA satellite box,  you would NOT get anywhere (in colour) if you hooked it up to an analogue sat box tuned to the French channels on Atlantic Bird 3  (even with Scart leads),  or a UHF (or VHF) aerial on the roof.  In this latter context you would not even get a picture in black and white.

I apologise for nit picking but people might get into difficulties with some DVD recorders brought over from the UK.when they use the gear in France,  which is after all what this forum is about.