abusive primaire teacher

[odile]

and a Merry Christmas to you to RH...

[woolybanana]

[quote user="Russethouse"]GOG - Grumpy old Gits[/quote]

Spoilsport. There was mileage in that.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="odile"]and a Merry Christmas to you to RH...
[/quote]

There is whole forum called GOGIF - grumpy old gits in France

[woolybanana]

And the founder member was ...............?[6]

[Russethouse]

Not me - [:D]

[odile]

GOG - can be VERY funny indeed1

but was it really called for above? How many years have you been trying to teach either of you? I did 20 years - started late as i went to Uni as a mature student when my youngest started school. I was so enthusiastic - gave it my absolute all- and have so many students who still write to me from all corners of the world, pop in for a cuppa  everytime they are in the area. And I really miss them. But there was that small minortiy that could turn any day into hell- and then their parents who could turn hell into something else. And on one of those days when I drove the 30 miles home in tears- i stopped in a lay-bye, and just said 'that's it - I am out'. and that was that.

GOG indeed. Joyeux Noel.

[Deby]

Deb,

I wouldnt give Ron the text space  - he is just one of those people who like to provoke and hide under the auspices of  'its my opinion' -  we've all met these characters in life, probably doesnt have kids, or if he did have they were in other decade or should I say regime.  You know what I mean - probably washes his car every sunday at a certain hour whilst keeping an eye on everybody elses business and offering his opinions on their lives and virtues which are undoubted wrong - in his opinion of course.

Deby

 

[Ron Avery]

[8-)][quote user="Deby"]

Deb,

I wouldnt give Ron the text space  - he is just one of those people who like to provoke and hide under the auspices of  'its my opinion' -  we've all met these characters in life, probably doesnt have kids, or if he did have they were in other decade or should I say regime.  You know what I mean - probably washes his car every sunday at a certain hour whilst keeping an eye on everybody elses business and offering his opinions on their lives and virtues which are undoubted wrong - in his opinion of course.

Deby

[/quote]

The very same Deby wrote: This Forum is losing its way.  We can only say good things about companies/people but we cannot say not so good things!!!

Changed your tune then or does that only apply to your opinions? 

Despite what Deby might think when you post on a Forum you get opinions, I gave mine based on the version of events posted on here, which may not be at all similar or involve the same son as that posted elsewhere.  See TF for details[8-)]

 Anyway its all been settled for the time being anyway but for once I agree with JR the OP may have really made a rod for her kids’ backs.

 However, despite the difference in opinion, I do really and sincerely wish the OP’s children look back on their schooldays in France with good memories and not bad ones.

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="Clair"][quote user="Debnfamily"][quote user="Boiling a frog"]In schools there is no explicit prohibition of corporal punishment  and correction is allowed the same as for parents[/quote]Oops - I thought it WAS prohibited, which is why I girded my loins and went and complained (I thought I was on solid ground).  The teacher didn't correct me when I told her the law said she shouldn't hit the children and that in my view, flinging them around by their clothes came under this umbrella.  So they are allowed to strike children then?  That doesn't seem to be the view of a lot of people - some of whom are teachers.  I would like to be sure on this, in case anything happens again.[/quote]
[quote]Pour l’école élémentaire, les « réprimandes » sont laissées à l’appréciation des enseignants. Deux restrictions sont toutefois apportées, l’interdiction de châtiment corporel ainsi que celle de la privation de la totalité de la récréation.
source (in French) and in Google English HERE.[/quote]
[/quote]

 

It is sometimes interesting to see how a country views itself and in comparason how an outside agency sees the same country

The Global Initiative to end all corporal punishment of children are a body recognised by the UN

A couple of extracts from their briefing dated 2008

This briefing describes the gaps in prohibition in France, despite repeated recommendations by

the Committee on the Rights of the Child and by regional human rights mechanisms.

We hope the Review will highlight with concern France’s record of ignoring treaty body

recommendations and strongly recommend that France introduce legislation as a matter of

urgency to prohibit corporal punishment of children in all settings, including in the home.

 

I: Legality of corporal punishment in France

The home

Corporal punishment is lawful in the home under the parental “right of correction” in customary law.

Children have limited protection from violence under the Criminal Code.

Research reveals a high prevalence of corporal punishment of children. A study published in 2007, by

the Union of Families in Europe, found that of 2,000 grandparents, parents and children, 95% of adults

and 96% of children had been smacked; 84% of grandparents and 87% of parents had administered

corporal punishment. One in ten parents admitted to punishing their children with a “martinet” (a small

whip); 30% of children said they had been punished with a martinet.1 A survey carried out in 1999 by

SOFRES for the organisation “Eduquer sans frapper”, found that of 1,000 respondents over half (51%)

who had children hit them often, a third hit them rarely, and only 16% had never hit them.2

Schools and other settings

There is no explicit prohibition in law of corporal punishment in schools, where “light correction” is

tolerated in the same way as for parents. A High Court ruling in 1889 allowed a “right to correction”

for teachers; a ruling in 2000 stated that this did not apply to habitual and “non-educational” corporal

punishment.

In the penal system, corporal punishment is unlawful as a sentence for crime and as a disciplinary

measure in penal institutions.

There is no explicit prohibition of corporal punishment in alternative care settings.

 

Full briefing

http://www.aidh.org/ONU_GE/conseilddh/examen/Images/Fr-GIEACP.pdf

 

So on the one hand the Global initiative are extremelly concerned about the lack of legislation banning corporal punishment in schools while a French teaching union takes a differing point of view.

[tegwini]

"Keep fighting the bast**** "

"Good luck and don't be upset by GOG".- Woolybanana

Shame on you Wooly !

One of the changes in education these days is the number of children in families minus a real secure, structured family- hence teachers see in front of them many disturbed children minus fathers -  for example the Shannon Mathews family. Parents with minimal parenting skills; women/girls producing children minus a father figure.  I came across a young girl recently that I once taught who told me that her father was one  of 3 men she knows- perhaps even her mother does not know which.  She is  very mixed up, and  likely to repeat the mistakes of her mother.  

 Teaching out of the UK we had an English ex-pat family and the daughter at 17/18 years old attacked in class, a gentle, unassuming female teacher, was expelled, and was the only one in my 7 years at this large (1100 pupil) school to be expelled.   The parents fought the expulsion as it was a tricky time, but the head was determined and drove 100 miles to the dept. HQ.  The teachers stuck together and would have refused to have her in their classes - and even the pupils did not support her.  

This family had taken their attitudes and behaviour when emigrating  and it gave English children a bad reputation with many. Clearly no support for teachers in that family - and teachers need and deserve 100% support.

I have taught for decades and am glad to be in a school (part-time) where parents are supportive and grateful that their children passed the entrance exam.   I am more than happy to be semi-retired and would hate to be starting in teaching now.  Odile is correct in saying that it's not easy.   All the training and initiatives in the world cannot prepare or assist in coping with the increasing number of disruptive and disturbed kids around today.

Happy to be a GOG!   (but NOT a bast*** !!!!)

Tegwini

[Âme]

[;-)][quote user="woolybanana"]Keep fighting the bast****. 

Good luck and don't be upset by GOG.[/quote]

[quote user="tegwini"]"Keep fighting the bast**** "

"Good luck and don't be upset by GOG".- ErnieY

Shame on you ErnieY ![/quote]

 Miss! I'm telling on you to ErnieY!

Perhaps I've lost the plot of this thread, but isn't the GOG in question a poster rather than a teacher?

[tegwini]

Apologies to ErnieY

So many posts, Plus still can't manage to use the quote facility, Yup it was Wooly - must be in a bad mood ? Problems with the disreputable Randy?  

Tegwini

[Benjamin]

[quote user="tegwini"]

They had taken their attitudes and behaviour when emigrating  and it gave English children a bad reputation with many. Clearly no support for teachers in that family - and teachers need and deserve 100% support.

I have taught for decades and am glad to be in a school (part-time) where parents are supportive and grateful that their children passed the entrance exam. 

Tegwini

[/quote]

Having no children who've ever been in a French school it's crossed my mind several times in reading this thread what this teacher and the assistant are privately thinking and saying between themselves.

They have certainly lost any authority and ability to control the children. There will not be one child or parent in the school, the village and the surrounding area who does not know, chapter and verse, what has gone on here.

Not a lot of parental support there then.

[Debnfamily]

I don’t know what Ron is on about with the TF comment – the thread

there started off the same as this one (I was needing info urgently and so

posted on both fora) but ended pretty quickly once the situation was resolved.  This thread went on and I provided further

info about my other son and tried to explain that there were two sons involved,

one who had been physically thrown, with witnesses (and a few other incidents

which weren’t clear or didn’t have clear witnesses so I couldn’t really

complain properly).  The younger son hasn’t

had a problem other than the teaching assistant shouting at him and upsetting

him and being scared by what he saw happening to his brother.  I thought Ron had gotten mixed up between the

two sons and therefore I clarified it.  Perhaps

there was no point as he is just out to stir up trouble, as Deby says.  Anyway, hopefully the info may help other

people in future.

As for the whole village knowing what happened: two parents,

who are quite good friends of mine, have thanked me for complaining because their

own children have now explained what was happening and also that everything is

now ok, since we had a meeting with the teacher, when they actually knew

nothing about it before because their own children didn’t tell them (that the

teacher had thrown them about the class and slapped them).  Those children of those parents have also

thanked my son for standing up and complaining because they now have an angelic

teacher who no longer pushes and shoves them about and they are actually

enjoying school.  The situation hasn’t

been mentioned or discussed by any other parents that I am aware of and there

are no problems at the school. 

The teacher has this week introduced a new ‘contract’

between the children, the parents and the teacher.  It lists rules and expected behaviour for

both the classroom environment and the garderie.   She

has also introduced a new procedure whereby the children assess the behaviour

of their classmates.  There is a questionnaire

which starts ‘Today we are going to discuss the behaviour of ‘X’……’ and then there

is a list of questions which she asks the class and they all vote on the

answers.  I thought perhaps a bit

worrying from the point of view that it could be a bit humiliating for some or

may give the opportunity for an unpopular pupil to be picked on but I’ve signed

to say I agree with trying this out, along with all the other parents.  The teacher has also reissued a notice she

issued in the first month of this school year which states that if problem

behaviour is not effectively addressed by parents then they will be called to

collect their child from school.  

It seems to me as if the teacher has calmed down and is

implementing other ways of controlling the children, or rather effecting improvements

in their behaviour, by methods other than fear.

Incidentally, she has also contacted me to let me know that

my son’s work (the one who had the problem with concentrating and being tidy)

has improved in both content and tidiness and the suggestions I have made to

him to help him be more organised have worked.  I do wonder how much of this is also helped by my suggestion to my son that if he doesn't knuckle down, his younger brother (by two years) may end up going to college ahead of him! 

All looking good to me.  The children are enjoying their last week before the holidays, making Christmas Crackers and learning 'English' Christmas Carols for the end of year spetacle and looking forward to the Christmas party.  Fingers crossed for the New Year.

 

[suein56]

I am impressed with your calm approach to this potentially awful situation regarding the treatment of your son; IMHO you are to be congratulated for your restraint, honesty, forthrightness and fairmindedness in what I perceive to be a very difficult situation for those concerned. In effect you have achieved a huge step forward for your village as regards the safety and well-being of the children in this school; well done.

Sue

[Mackyfrance]

I echo suein56's comments. I followed this on both fora and have to admit I find it depressing to see the regularity with which similar problems crop up.

One thing that constantly surprises me though it that people actually think that the standards of behaviour in French schools are any different to anywhere else. I can only conclude that either they don't have children in school here or that their own experience of schools in their home country was particularly poor.

My children's college often seems just a step away from anarchy  - and that's just the teachers :))