Mackyfrance

Tegwini, I've said it before and I'll say it again the French Bac is nothing like the IB. The French Bac is virtually unknown in the UK and certainly doesn't have the 'kudos' of the IB. Personally I can see little to recommend the Bac or French education in general and I speak as a parent who has had considerable experience of both UK and French education. Like Panda we are returning to the UK. Coincidentally to rural Wiltshire where our children have places in a school with an Outstanding OFSTED report and where all the parents I have spoken to have nothing but good things to say about it. As for discipline in French schools, what a myth that is, in my experience anyway. If discipline includes abusing the teachers, wandering around the class during lessons, refusing to work, daily punch ups during the lunch hour, throwing spitballs at the teachers, vandalising the toilets so often that they are now closed except for one hour a day, then yes, it's great here. If not.... Stabbing of teachers is becoming almost commonplace in France now. My children's school is, like the one in Wiltshire, in a semi-rural market town. French education, which is limited and limiting, has sucked the life out of my children. I fear that on their return to the UK they will be so far behind their counterparts, having never written an essay, never having been expected to have an independent thought in their heads, never having had to critique a poem or piece of work, etc. The Bac is incredibly limiting as others have said. It can also be very exclusive - as in excluding people who struggle with one subject. An example. My French neighbour's daughter wants to be a vet. There is a huge shortage of rural vets, especially large animals specialists which she wants to be. In order to get on the concours for Vet School, you need a Bac S. After a year in Lycee, she has been told that her maths moyen isn't high enough and she is being thrown off the course. The vet with whom she did her stage is horrified. He believes that she will make an excellent vet and also says that very little maths is actually required. She now has to change to a different Bac at a different Lycee 100kms from home. On a more general note, I have lots of dealings with bilingual departments of French organisations. I have never come across a single one that employs a bilingual British person rather than a bilingual French one, even if the level of English is dubious to say the least. I honestly believe that a British person will never get a job if they can find a French person to do it. I can't see any benefit for my children staying here and, like Panda, I'm happy to take my chances in a system I know and understand and in a country where there stand a better chance of getting a job.

It wasn't just the UK press. The Canadian press picked up on the story and took it as a personal insult that they were not being represented. While a lot of it was media-inspired frenzy, I think it also shows that the underlying suspicion between the UK and France that France could and should have done more to protect it's own people still exists and that sitting in Paris having a cafe with the Germans while thousands of allied troops died trying to liberate them still sticks in the craw of many British people, rightly or wrongly

My neighbour, who is French, gave up running our village shop after three years of struggling with it. The problem, she's not from 'le coin' so the villagers would rather go to the supermarket than buy from her. She took it over from another lady who was, likewise, an incomer who had the same problems. It was then bought by the son of our Maire who was born and bred in the vilalge and it is thriving. Make of that what you will.

We've just been let down by the third prospective tenants in 3 months and I'm starting to get really fed up as each of them has waited weeks before deciding they didn't want to go ahead. Agents don't seem that interested in our property as it is a house and gite so a bit out of the ordinary so where do you advertise to find quality tenants? If anyone can suggest websites to use I'd be grateful.

Yes, just goes to show that I'm a lousy judge of character, having said I thought the previous shower had nothing to hide!

That's what I was wondering but everyone I speak to says 'You must go through a Notaire to be safe'.

Can anyone who knows more than me (which is just about everyone!) tell me the benefits of doing a bail d'habitation through a notaire rather than buying one off the internet. We are getting a little fed up with our notaire who is very slow, doesn't answer e-mails etc. Our prospective tenants need the bail in order to arrange shipping of their furniture so we are all stuck in limbo. I'm wondering whether we'd be better off doing our own. Thanks for any replies

Well, thought I'd just update you. The prospective tenants refused to provide financial information, we refused the let then, thanks to the joys of Google found a post on another forum that seemed to suggest they were penniless. A cautionary tale! Now found lovely prospective tenants who are only too happy to provide everything we ask for.

Lollie, it may not have less status in France, which doesn't recognise the IB anyway, but it certainly has less status in UK and US universities and among global employers.

Having been to University in France and the UK, the only comment I would make is that you get what you pay for. You could opt for French Uni, get all the benefits and pay next to nothing but what you get at the end is pretty much the same - next to nothing whereas a UK or US Uni education will provide a more internationally accepted and respected qualification. All depends what you want to do afterwards. Also, can I point out that the IB and the French Bac are not the same thing at all. Even the French Bac with Option Internationale is not considered the same as the IB and has much less status. I believe that you need a note of 14 in the French Bac for most university entrance in the UK but others may know better.

Yes, private schools are generally not allowed to go on strike. However, that doesn't unfortunately alter the inherent problems with the French education system as mentioned by several of these posters. I don't know what ages yours are but I had no problems with primary school at all and, it being a single teacher school, if she was sick, a replacement was provided. College, however, is a different matter altogether. It is also worth noting that private schools exist to take those pupils that cannot fit into mainstream school therefore many pupils, and I'm not suggesting this is the case with your school, have serious social problems. I wouldn't send a dog to our local private school, never mind a child. It's definitely a last resort rather than a first choice and 'caring ethos' is not a description I would use about them. This is a school, after all, that went on a school trip (the entire school) and left one child behind unsupervised as he hadn't finished his work. France, is, unfortunately, just as much a postcode lottery as the UK and probably anywhere else but I'm glad to hear that you are happy with your school. IMHO one of the best summations of the French education system can be found on this thread. www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/5/1210280/ShowPost.aspx#1210280 Scroll down to the post from Richardbk

I could have written all these posts myself about the college my children attend (one in 4eme, one in 6eme). I can't honestly remember the last time my children had a full week at school. It was months ago. While the number of etudes does get less as they get further up, the number of staff absences, strikes, etc doesn't. Homework has become non-existent too. And all this in the one of the best colleges around. My son (4eme) has gone from being a bright, motivated and eager to learn child to one who can barely raise the energy to do what homework he gets. He finds it boring, unmotivating and it has completely crushed his spirit. French school has been a disaster as, as far as I can see, it is only suitable for those who enjoy rote learning and regurgitating what the teachers tell them without ever having to understand what they are learning. My children aren't like that. Perhaps that could be seen as their fault rather than the system but, I mean, it's the 21st Century and they don't even learn IT! Like some of the other posters, we've decided to return to the UK. We've managed to get our children into a school with an Outstanding OFSTED report, 90 different after school clubs and societies, fantastic sports facilities, no 3 hour lunch breaks and they finish at a reasonable hour. I honestly feel that if we stay here they will never reach their full potential. Even being bilingual doesn't really seem to be any benefit here as I have dealings with loads of bilingual departments of French organisations and I've yet to come across a single one that employs a native English speaker. They all employ French people who speak English. We are also renting our house out, which isn't ideal but I simply can't muck up the children's education any longer. We're moving to the Wiltshire/Somerset border. Good luck Mitsi, I wish I could offer something more positive.

Credit Agricole also sent us a letter recently asking for loads of financial information and proof of who we are. It's all to do with new money laundering regulations.

Thanks everyone. We have put the ball back into their court on this as there is absolutely no way we will go ahead with the rental unless they can provide proof of sufficient income or assets. I've tried to explain to them why we need it but it seems in their home country this sort of info is not required. It seems that there are some people happy to rent out their houses on a handshake but we're are not prepared to. Fortunately we have a small queue of people interested in renting so if this doesn't work out, then I'm sure one of the others will.

We have people interested in renting out our house for 3 years. However, they won't provide proof of income saying that they feel that information is confidential and that they wouldn't enter into the agreement if they weren't sure they could afford it. Personally we don't want to know the details of their finances however we do need to know they can pay the rent. Is there a third party company who could check this information for us or does anyone know what else we could request eg. bank reference, accountant's letter. I don't believe they have anything to hide just that old anglo-saxon dislike of revealing financial information.

Due to timewasters our property is unexpectedly reavailable if you are interested. PM me for details if interested.   Post edited by moderators

We are looking at renting out our house long term. Do we need to get any diagnostics done i.e electrics, lead, termites, etc Thanks

We have, hopefully, found long term renters for our house. We will get a contract drawn up by the notaire but I want to know what proof of income and ability to pay we can ask for. Also, can we ask for references from their current landlord, etc. All information gratefully  received.

Richard, that is probably one of the best - and sadly, most depressing - summation of the French school system. It should be required reading for anyone bringing their children to school in France.

Have a read of this. It's (of course) not as simple to employ an aupair in France. There are cotisations to be paid, you have to affiliate the aupair to URSSAF and pay for healthcare, etc, Seems there is also a salary scale you need to adhere to. http://www.urssaf.fr/profil/particuliers/employe_au_pair/vos_salaries_-_vos_cotisations/infos_pratiques_01.html We had aupairs for years in the UK. Had one French one who was dreadful and many Czech and Slovakian ones who were fantastic. It does shift the whole balance of the household and it's not something I'd recommend if you live somewhere very isolated, you don't have self contained accommodation and pretty much everything else that has already been mentioned.  

It's interesting that most of the positive comments come from people who's children are in primaire. I think the teaching in primaire is pretty sound, it's when you get to college that the problems start. Even the French government admits that college is the weak link in the education chain and across the different 'France' fora, there is a distinct disquiet about college education..  I think that children who go through primaire will generally do well but from what I've seen of the children who start off in college, it's very difficult and our own experience is that the curriculum is very poor and totally out of date. I believe it hasn't been changed since the 1950s but I could be wrong - I'm sure someone will correct me if I am!  It does nothing to prepare students for functioning in the global marketplace that the world has become. It seems to just provide 'employees' to work for the elite from the Grandes Ecoles and doesn't seem to do much to encourage any sort of higher expectations of what could be achieved. I would echo what a previous poster said about jobs for British immigrants in France.  In my work I deal with many many bilingual departments in French banks, large companies etc and I've yet to find even ONE British person employed there. Their bilingual employees are all French people who speak English (with various degrees of competence) rather than British people who speak French.  I'm really hoping that someone will put me right here and tell me about companies they know that employ bilingual British people, otherwise the outlook is pretty depressing. To the OP I can only say that unless you try it, you'll never know. You child could either flourish or fail and I don't know if there's really anything which would indicate which way they go until you actually try it.  I've met very bright children who've not succeeded at all and less bright ones who've done very well. The education system is very different being very reliant on rote learning with limited opportunity for creative activities, story writing etc. Children are expected to learn their lessons off by heart and the majority of work seems to consist of filling in worksheets.  IT isn't taught as a subject yet and PE can be very hit or miss. The children are given a mark  (moyen) for each subject and an overall moyen so if you child is brilliant at everything but rubbish at sport then their overall moyen will be lower and they'll have to work harder to bring it up.  Children are tested almost on a weekly basis and it's from these tests that they get their moyen. There's no privacy in the French system and you can expect your child's progress, family situation and behaviour to be openly discussed between the teachers, class delegues and parent delegues at the termly conseil de classe. I was put forward (without my knowledge) as a parent delegue by a friend who is also a delegue and I still find it very awkward to be discussing a child that I don't even know. Marks are given out in open class which is great for the clever ones but not so for the others. I mention this not because it's terribly shocking or anything, just because it is so different from the UK where this would be considered a private matter between school and family. It is one education for all and although help is now available for those that are struggling, brighter children will not be pushed to achieve more.  Teachers have little interest in the children outside school but on the plus side you can say goodbye to expensive end of term whip rounds for teachers' presents and the oneupmanship of harvest festival! Education is as much a postcode lottery in France so the main thing is to research your area, check what extra help is available to non-Francophone children as many areas offer no help whatsoever, and try and get an unbiased view from other people who's children have been through the same school. The school may either welcome your child as a welcome foreigner who will give a different perspective or as an irritant that they could really do without as they just represent more work.  I know of two schools in our area who actively discourage non-French speaking children as they say it is unfair on the French children in the school if the teacher has to spend extra time with one pupil.  Try to find people who've been involved in school life and really know it rather than someone who just puts their child on the bus each day but really has no idea what happens once they get there.  Without wishing to offend, there are many British parents in our area who never attend parent's evenings because they can't speak French, don't support school events for the same reason, yet feel very qualified to talk about how good or bad the school is. It isn't like the UK in the 50s nor is it like old style grammar school education.  Teachers strikes are a fact of life so if any education reforms is planned expect a good few days of missed school. Good luck!    

I echo suein56's comments. I followed this on both fora and have to admit I find it depressing to see the regularity with which similar problems crop up. One thing that constantly surprises me though it that people actually think that the standards of behaviour in French schools are any different to anywhere else. I can only conclude that either they don't have children in school here or that their own experience of schools in their home country was particularly poor. My children's college often seems just a step away from anarchy  - and that's just the teachers :))  

From older people I know I understood that there was, in fact, not much available especially to foreigners.  They told me you would also be expected to sell your property to fund a place in a retirement home should it ever be needed.

Hi Jura We are selling at the moment. I've found some free sites but would be interested to find some more. You've had the nod, so would love to hear who you used. Thanks

Nobody knows then?