Car totalled - other drivers fault - why are WE out of pocket?.

[Wendy]

Hi, just an update. Our car, or what was left of it, has been sitting in the local garage yard since 23rd May whilst we have been trying to get some sort of fair deal from the insurance company. We were insured FULLY for personal and business insurance, not on the cheap at all.

This week I have discovered the garage have disposed of our car, it is no longer there and they sold it to god knows where. GAN are claiming no knowledge at all and are still trying to get us to accept an offer, now, of only 2800 euros. On an 18 month old car that cost us nearly 9000 euros. And, the old codger still drives around on the same bloody machine he wrecked our vehicle with. And still with half the brain he has. [:@]

If we manage to get another car at all, no way will we insure it in France. [:P]

More anon.

25.07.07 Post edited by Russethouse

 

 

 

[Bob T]

While I sympathise with your problems, where else are you gong to insure a car? If you use a UK insurance company then you will find that the small print reads open to UK residents only, if you then have a bump, you won't get anything.

[Ron Avery]

Having just had an accident last Sunday where (luckily nobody was hurt) when a car did a U turn from the slow lane and across the overtaking lane right in front of me on one of those 3 lane roads up a hill as he had taken the wrong road, he said,  blinded by the sun and did not see me overtaking him, my insurer looking at the hastily drawn sketch on the constat suggested it was 50 - 50 but when I told them both verbally and in writing the other driver had admitted full liablity to his insurer I was politely told it was not for the drivers to apportion blame[:-))].

I can tell you that the French insurance system does not work at all like the UK one so forget any comparisons.  There is a lot of 50 - 50 even if one driver is at fault but there are mitigating circumstances like sppeed involved, however, the car is dealt with by an "expert" who attends the garage and takes photographs and assesses the damage.  They work for the Insurer and you deal with them over the car and its future.  If the car is beyond economic repair you will be sent a letter by the expert telling you the value of the car.  You can accept the payment or keep the car for a much reduced payment.  If it repairable but the repair cost is close to its value, you have a choice as to getting it repaired up to and not exceeding the value of the car or accepting a payment of the car's value.  If you decide to take the money you have to sign a "certificat de cessation d'un vehicle" and give this and all keys codes etc and the car to the garage for collection by the experts.  If no certificat has been completed the car cannot be taken, unless the garage owner has asked for it to be moved from his premises, if it written off there is no profit in him keeping it if it taking up space and it maty be transfered to another storage facility.  So if you have a problem with a car after an accident, your first port of call is to the company that assessed the damage, not your insurer.

[Onion van man]

There is one thing you can always be assured of with road accidents, Regardless of who is to blame you will always be out of pocket to some degree or your car won't be fixed properly.

It's no better here in the UK, A few years ago a woman drove straight into the back of me because she was looking at something on the pavement! I know because I was watching her in my mirror. I blasted my horn thinking it might get her attention but, she just drove into me. When I spoke to her she said her foot slipped.

Then she went on to say there was no damage and she would not give me her insurance details. She then tried everything she could think of to worm out of it, She got a man from inside a shop to try and tell me there was no damage (as if everyone is a car accident specialist), She claimed I had a forged tax disc and she thought she had struck gold when she asked for proof of an MOT and I said I didn't have one because the car was new. Amazing really considering her car did not have a single undamaged body panel on it!

However, the long and short of it was, It was the start of a two year hassle to get the car fixed. Mainly due to the 'approved' bodyshop the car went to.

[Framboise]

Insurance companies....................same whatever side of the Channel you are on.

Some moronic woman drove into the side of our Toyota Surf from a side road, then stated that she "Hadn't seen me...".  Heavens above, the thing was the size of the moon, jet black & chrome!!!!   However I managed to get her details because the Police were "too busy" elsewhere and nobody was actually hurt in the prang anyway, but later her husband rang mine trying to say that I had driven at her instead, even though I had witnesses to say otherwise.   It was also perfectly obvious from the damage to our vehicle precisely who-had-hit-who.   Anyway, eventually after six months of nonsense and bickering between the insurance companies it was finally sorted out - surprisingly short when you consider that I refused utterly to accept any blame for HER stupidity or lose my No Claims bonus for her.   GRRRRR.

Two weeks later another woman drove into the passenger door of my sister's brand new car in a multi storey.  I sat there incredulous as she lunged backwards at us at top speed, and then she shouts at us that it my sister's fault that she smashed into us!!   Unbelieveable.

A short-sighted, ancient French tractor driver has nothing on some of the buffoons on the road here Wen! [:)]

[woolybanana (ex tag)]

Surrey. Notorious for accidents! So many distractions, so much traffic.

[jc]

In instances like the above you MUST get the police involved,particularly if you are certain that it is not your fault-can I suggest a strained wrist,whiplash or something similar.

[Ron Avery]

"In instances like the above you MUST get the police involved". 

So you are suggesting that you feign injury just to get the police to attend?  How ridiculous.  Apart from the obvious issue of wasting police time over an accident in which nobody was really hurt, the other driver is not legally bound to remain at the scene anyway and can give their details to the other party and leave the scene if they wish.  The accident must then be reported within 24 hours at a police station, so what has the police being called achieved?  Answer FA[:'(]

In addition those accidents "above" as far as I know happened in the UK where they do not have a constat aimable form so are quite frankly irrelevant to the discussion here.  As has been said quite a few times in this thread, the UK system and French system are NOT the same, you fill in the Constat with the other driver,  sign it and send it to your insurer, they fight over who is to blame, not you.

[woolybanana (ex tag)]

As foreigners in France either on French plates or GB's weare always going to be at a disadvantage in these circumstances. I think it would be safer to call the police if you possibly can for anything either than a minor touch. It may not be correct procedure as Ron says, but it is the wise one.

[Russethouse]

Well my tip is very mundane, but make sure you take pics (keep a disposable camera in the car, use your mobile phone if it has the facility & you know how to download it) A friend of my daughters had a minor accident, someone went into the back of her car - didn't have his insurance or license documents with him and gave her completely false details.

[Ron Avery]

Again RH is citing UK procedures, it does not matter an iota in France if you post the damaged car or skid marks to the insurer, the constat is the important form.

 If you call the Gendarmes they fill out a constat, a slightly different one to the normal one drivers carry, it has different boxes in section 8 for insurance details, and more details can be made on the rear for police purposes,  they also check your license etc and do any testing which is noted on the constat, they then give each driver a copy of the constat for their insurance, so unless charges are brought, what does that achieve?  However, it would pay every driver who drives in France to get a UK version of the constat and study it, making sure that they understand what goes in each box and what not to cross or sign.  Once signed you cannot change the details recorded but remember,  you can put observations in the box at the bottom and in English if you do not know the French.

[Chezstevens]

Where can you get an english version of the constat? 

[Russethouse]

Actually Ron I'm not referring to any procedures at all. Its just a general comment.

The way I look at is that it costs very little to make sure you have a means of taking a photograph, and if all it does is remind you of something at a later date,  it's worth the effort and any outlay involved IMHO. Don't forget some members here are second home owners and will be dealing with UK insurance companies. You also state 'it is not compulsory to complete it '   So if it is not completed then you might find the pics of use if only as a aide to your memory.

 

[Ron Avery]

and if all it does is remind you of something at a later date, 

OH I give up.  Read the posts above RH about FRENCH procedures before typing another useful tip!

You should get an English language version of the constat from your UK insurer when you get a green card I am not aware that French insurers do English versions but it might be worth asking.

 

[woolybanana (ex tag)]

Why do I think I have seen multi-lingual constats somewhere?

[Beryl]

If my memory serves me right I thought one was printed in LF magazine a couple of years ago with a translation.

Going back to Wen's problem, how can a garage get rid of someone elses car without their say so ? Surely that is theft. It was not theirs to sell or whatever.  Wen might do well to seek redress from the garage as well as the insurance company. Or at least get the garage to put something in writing stating that they had permission to do so from the insurance company as it seems a bit off to get rid of the vehicle whilst the claim is still being disputed by both sides. Especially as it can now not be independently valued.

I really hope you get some satisfaction with this Wen, I think you have been treated terribly.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

and if all it does is remind you of something at a later date, 

OH I give up.  Read the posts above RH about FRENCH procedures before typing another useful tip!

You should get an English language version of the constat from your UK insurer when you get a green card I am not aware that French insurers do English versions but it might be worth asking.

[/quote]

I'll tell you what Ron, you are right - but I'm still taking my camera [:D]

Form in French with English translation here : http://www.aoninsurexpat.com/Automobile/Constat-Amiable-bilingue.pdf

 

 

[nomoss]

I remember being warned, many, many years ago, that Priorité à Droit applies if you are overtaking and the other driver turns into you.

[allanb]

[quote user="nomoss"]I remember being warned, many, many years ago, that Priorité à Droit applies if you are overtaking and the other driver turns into you.

[/quote]I do not believe this.  Who warned you many years ago?

[teejay]

Ron, whats a Green Card?....haven't seen one of those in years.

Wen, interesting article in Weekend Telegraph Motoring:

Not sure of your car model but after just 12 months a Suzuki Jimmy is worth only 52% of its original value and a Suzuki Liana will be worth only 42%. Bottom of the barrel is the Hyundi Sonata worth only 32%

[nomoss]

[quote user="allanb"][quote user="nomoss"]I remember being warned, many, many years ago, that Priorité à Droit applies if you are overtaking and the other driver turns into you.

[/quote]I do not believe this.  Who warned you many years ago?

[/quote]

Probably someone I met while hitch hiking.  Perhaps I should have said Priorité à Droit may apply.  It is to do with deciding who ran into who in the absence of witnesses, and the overtaking driver being responsible for overtaking safely.

[Framboise]

Joy of joys....................    Some dozy woman shunted my car into the one in front this morning whilst we two in the front of the queue were stationary at the red lights.    My poor little car has copped it both ends, being the filling in the sandwich as it were, but thank heavens I had the handbrake on and my foot on the brake otherwise the poor lady in front would have been catapulted into the traffic piling round the one way system.   

Oh great.  I get to deal with Insurance companies...........

Said excuse for this was "My foot slipped...."     More like "Priorite a Moron"  Esher style.   Grrrrrr  [:@]

As if I needed another excuse to retire to my peaceful haven in France?  

[woolybanana (ex tag)]

I'll check with the local gendarme next time he comes by for a drink.

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="nomoss"]I remember being warned, many, many years ago, that Priorité à Droit applies if you are overtaking and the other driver turns into you.
[/quote]

Not sure about this, but isn't overtaking someone at a junction where someone could turn left illegal? Then again, I've never bothered to read the code de la route and I havn't read the highway code in ..oh.. a long time.

 

[BJSLIV]

I think this is what you were thinking of........

Tout dépassement autre que celui des véhicules à deux roues est interdit aux intersections de routes, sauf pour les conducteurs abordant une intersection où les conducteurs circulant sur les autres routes doivent leur laisser le passage en application des articles R. 415-6, R. 415-7 et R. 415-8, ou lorsqu'ils abordent une intersection dont le franchissement est réglé par des feux de signalisation ou par un agent de la circulation.