Priorité à droite

[Aly]

Warning. We were driving on a dual carriageway type road not far from Lyon in a town called Genas. A car flew out from a tiny side road and drove straight for us result crash.

Our insurers and witnesses at the time thought we were in the right as our road was a primary road. Now 8 months later we discover that the other driver had priority.

common-sense really doesn't come into it. So just a warning.........

[Baz]

Nearly happened to me on more than one occasion. Priorité à droite rules should have gone years ago, I just wonder how many accidents and fatalities this causes.

Baz

[Bugsy]

I certainly agree with that Baz, they are, quite simply, crazy.

A real priority when driving (or riding) watch out for those 'X' signs and lack of white lines on junctions.

[Clair]

Road sign ahead of the junction meaning you must give way to traffic coming from the right.

Road sign ahead of the junction meaning you have priority over traffic emerging from the other road at the next junction. It does not indicate the general "priority" nature of the road and is only a punctual road sign.

 Road sign indicating you are travelling on a main road which has priority at all junctions. Repeated every kilometre in urban areas and every 5 km outside town. Not necessarily shown before each junction.

 Road sign indicating you are no longer travelling on a main road which has

priority at all junctions.

When in town, always give way to traffic coming from the right, unless otherwise indicated (at roundabout for instance).

See this previous discussion.

http://www2.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/depliant-signalisation.pdf

[DerekJ]

[quote user="Clair"]

Road sign ahead of the junction meaning you must give way to traffic coming from the right.

Road sign ahead of the junction meaning you have priority over traffic emerging from the other road.

 

Road sign indication you have priority.

 

Road sign indicating you no longer have priority.

When in town, always give way to traffic coming from the right, unless otherwise indicated (at roundabout for instance).

See this previous discussion.

http://www2.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/depliant-signalisation.pdf

[/quote]

So if you are on a route marked as per sign #3 but come across the dreaded X (sign #1) do you have priority?

[Clair]

At crossroads, the general rule is to give priority to the right.

When this is not the case, the road signs tell you how to handle junctions .

The yellow diamond road sign indicates you have priority until you see the crossed yellow diamond road sign.

The triangular red-bordered cross road sign indicates you MUST give way to traffic from the right.

[Aly]

Unfortunately in Genas where the accident happened there are no signs or markings. Bizarre I know!

In the area where my house is even the smallest roads have signs. 

Its astonishing we took this route as a short-cut to the airport at Lyon.  If you have markings I agree its absolutely clear

but you would expect traffic on a main road to have priority.

[Thibault]

I understand that some communes keep priorité a droite as a method of traffic calming [8-)]

[lacote0_0]

There must be something about the area. I very nearly came a cropper at the airport itself a week ago.

[Clair]

[quote user="Aly"]Unfortunately in Genas where the accident happened there are no signs or markings.

but you would expect traffic on a main road to have priority.[/quote]

I think this is a perfect illustration of a common misunderstanding.

Instead of assuming that a main road has automatic priority, your starting point should be:

The rule is to give priority to the right.

So, if there are no signs or markings, the rule (give priority to the right) applies.

In town or villages, even on minor roads, the rule applies.

Unless there are road signs or markings indicating otherwise, the rule applies.

If you are driving in a route prioritaire (indicated by a yellow diamond sign), the "prioritaire" nature of the road is lost on entering an town or village unless the sign (yellow diamond) is repeated above the village or town sign.

To sum up:

• no road sign or making means the rule applies: give way to the right.
• means you must give way to traffic from the right.
• means you have priority at the upcoming junction. It does not indicate you are on a main road and is valid only for the upcoming junction.
• means you are travelling on a main road which has priority at all junctions. It is repeated every kilometre in urban areas and every 5 km
  outside town. It is not necessarily shown before each junction.
• means your road no longer has priority. The general rule (give priority to the right unless otherwise indicated) applies.

[Sunday Driver]

The problem is that the idea of the 'main road' having priority is a peculiarity found only in the UK and people seem to have difficulty in adjusting their mindset to the principle of priorité a droite.

Even when they do grasp the concept, they don't necessarily understand the function of the traffic signs as described above by Clair.  The yellow diamond is a case in point.

 

 

[Alex H]

If I am driving in a town and come to a junction with no give way line - does that define it as a priorité a droite junction?

[La Guerriere]

Lack of road markings and it probably is PAD.

I have even had been in a traffic queue in town and had somebody overtake by barrelling through a petrol station forecourt and back in the queue four cars further up using PAD

[Sunday Driver]

Priorité a droite only applies to roads - not exits from petrol stations or supermarket car parks or chemins de terre or private land.......[;-)]

 

 

[DerekJ]

This has been a useful thread and will cause me to be a little more attentive and aware. Whilst I haven't actually ever had a problem with this I can now see that I hadn't fully understood the situation and may have been a bit lucky.

Of course, as a Parisian ex-work colleague used to say to me when he was driving me around in Barcelona - "road signs? they're just for guidance!"  After that I called him Mr Guidance and tried to avoid ever getting into a car with him again.

[Aly]

Thanks for the comments. the speed limit on the road in Genas is 50km and is fast moving. The car came out of a small road equally fast. In such circumstances it isn't easy to observe and stop.

To say its a British mindset is rubbish we were in a car with a German and Australian all were equally shocked. Germany had a similar system but adapted and ensured its safety. I think Priorité à droite is maintained in France more because of the interests of garages and panel beaters than of public safety.

[AnOther]

I'm rather surprised that a Priorité à droite exists on a dual carriageway, was it a dual carriageway in the accepted sense, i.e. a fast piece of road with a central reservation like a motorway for instance, or just a 2 lane section in what may be a built up area ? EDIT: Point about speed on the stretch answered, hadn't refreshed the page before posting [:$]

I agree totally, it's a lunatic idea which must have been the cause of untold accidents and deaths over the years. Thankfully it does seems to be dying out with the younger generation and it is the geriatric mammys and pappys in their equally ancient Renault 4's who are the ones to keep a wary eye on, certainly been behind them when they've pulled out into a main road without so much as a glance to the left and also had them do the same to me, priority or not for Gods sake at least LOOK [:'(]

I wonder what they teach for the French driving test ?

[Sunday Driver]

I think you'll find they teach the rules for priorité a droite as set out in the code de la route - which we've all read and understood.....[;-)]

If a mammy or pappy has priority to drive out into your 'main' road and you have to give way to them, then your road isn't really 'main', is it?

 

 

[glacier1]

I really do think priorite a droite is a part of the code which is idiotic and should be abolished....it's OK if you are French and you are use to it, but for those of us coming from countries with "realistic" driving codes we do not understand it, and/or we can easily overlook it.  As a priority, I keep my eyes out for ALL traffic, if I see someone coming out I will slow down and wait, like a country and western showdown, until one of us backs down, usually we come to some sort of "agreement".  Round abouts are a nightmare here, I do not do as the brits, (3rd exit, keep left and then merge to the right hand lane after passing 2nd exit), this has proven to be near fatal as people speed on the outside lane all the way around.  Now I just follow the right hand lane traffic all the way around, it's the safest route.

I miss driving in Britain, it was so easy, I knew where I stood, here it's sometimes totally alien to me.  I drove through my local city a few months back, i saw a "A" driver, just passed his test, going through every red light at speed, not even slowing down to check if there was someone coming......seems the laws here mean nothing here.

If I were you I'd keep checking my mirrors and slow down when you are in doubt, it's best to drive slower than run the risk of an accident.

[Clair]

[quote user="glacier1"]... priorite a droite is a part of the code which...should be abolished.......for those of us coming from countries with "realistic" driving codes we do not understand it, and/or we can easily overlook it.[/quote]

Copied from a previous discussion on this topic:

[quote user="andyh4"]

Polish - priority from the right

Spanish - ditto

Italian - ditto

Czech - Ditto

Slovak - ditto

Belgian - ditto

Dutch - ditto

                                          or sometimes

German - ditto

Swiss - ditto[/quote]

Should they and the French all amend their "unrealistic" codes to make them easier for the British to understand? [8-)]

Oh! I know! They should all drive on the left!![:-))] That should make it easier all round! [:P]

[Sunday Driver]

School kids easily grasp the concept of priorité a droite when they study the code for taking their scooter test, so why do experienced Brit drivers have such difficulty?

Perhaps it's that 'rubbish' mindset I spoke about earlier......[;-)]

 

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]If a mammy or pappy has priority to drive out into your 'main' road and you have to give way to them, then your road isn't really 'main', is it?[/quote]That's just playing with words as I'm sure we all know what is meant by 'main road', does anybody here not ?

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]The problem is that the idea of the 'main

road' having priority is a peculiarity found only in the UK and people

seem to have difficulty in adjusting their mindset to the principle of

priorité a droite.

Even when they do grasp the concept, they don't necessarily

understand the function of the traffic signs as described above by

Clair.  The yellow diamond is a case in point.[/quote]Is this the same or a different 'main road' [;-)]

The principal was consolidated in the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic

however I would venture to say that things have moved on somewhat since

then and I can't see that, on the open road at least, it really has any place in terms of modern traffic management other than as a source of confusion and potential trauma. An over simplification too surely because even in France (and other

countries, Germany and Holland to name but two) priority IS on the 'main

road' unless indicated otherwise. It's the inconsistency which is the

problem coupled with, as you rightly say, lack of comprehension and of course that pirennial failing, lack of observation.

[Scooby]

I guess it all depends on what the speed limit on the 'main' road is.  If it is a dual carriageway with fast moving traffic but traffic on a small side road (no doubt entering the dual carriageway from a standstill) has right of way then it is an accident waiting to happen.  I recall the A80 from Glasgow some years ago had a terrible safety record for a similar reason.  The road connects the M80 out of Glasgow with the M80 towards Stirling but all the roads entering and leaving the A80 were 'T' junctions rather than slip roads - result in an appalling fatality record.  To suggest using priorité a droite as a 'traffic calming method' is insanity.

[Aly]

Clair, I like France too, but we have the right to criticize aspects of life we disagree with! The codes you are talking about across Europe are fundementally different to the French code.Most have been updated or modified with the introduction of motorways and car traffic. The French themselves including road safety groups and insurers have criticized Priorité à droite rule. Its not because its a national  past time or some kind of cultural inheritance that they all want to keep it, they don't. France has one of the worst records for road traffic accidents in West Europe despite having good roads.

[Clair]

[quote user="Aly"]Clair, I like France too, but we have the right to criticize aspects of life we disagree with![/quote]

I am not aware that I have prevented you from doing so [8-)]

You are free to say "PàD does not exist in this and that other country, so it

should not exist here", but the fact is that it does and when you drive

here, you have to be aware of it.

It is essential for everyone's safety that drivers are aware of the rules of the road, wherever they drive. Isn't it?[8-)]