Car insurance for car with british plates.

[Shelly]

Hi,

we've just bought a car in the uk. We're hoping to pick it up next week. Looking for insurance for the few days in the Uk and to cover for France. We are going to register it in France so 90 days or even a month would be good. Also selling our other car any tips. Thanks

[suein56]

[quote user="Shelly"]Hi,

we've just bought a car in the uk. [/quote]

When we did that our french insurance company - AGF as was, now renamed Allianz - simply added the new-to-us car to our existing car insurance for a month, at no extra cost. This, it was explained to us, was so we could sell the old car still insured for occasional use ie for test drives with prospective purchasers.

Sue

[Rob Roy]

We did the same - GAN insured the car from the day OH went to pick it up and drive it back and for three months whilst we re-registered.

[AnOther]

Whilst in the UK you must have UK valid insurance (plus tax and MOT of course) which means you cannot get it covered like suein56 as an add on to a French policy. Even if your French insurer offers it and swears blind it's OK believe me it isn't !

Your best bet in the circumstances would be one of the day insurance companies such as www.dayinsure.com. This has the added advantage of full European breakdown cover, if you choose to take it.

Once you have it safely home in France you can then take out French insurance and get on with registering it.

Bonne route !

[sid]

ANO ... I keep coming across these tales about what you can, or more often cannot, do! What is different about the policy that Sue had? We have a French policy and it covers the car we own for use anywhere in the EU. Why would it not be allowed for the OP this time... it's their car and they're going to register it in France. I really am confused.

Just re-reading my post and it's not very clear. What I mean is, surely it's permitted to take out French insurance to cover the car until it's registered, even while the car is in UK? 

 

 

[Jay]

I agree, why complicate things. Insure the car here in France and you only have to do it once.

[AnOther]

[quote user="sid"]ANO ... I keep coming across these tales about what you can, or more often cannot, do! What is different about the policy that Sue had? We have a French policy and it covers the car we own for use anywhere in the EU. Why would it not be allowed for the OP this time... it's their car and they're going to register it in France. I really am confused.

Just re-reading my post and it's not very clear. What I mean is, surely it's permitted to take out French insurance to cover the car until it's registered, even while the car is in UK? [/quote]A French policy on a French registered car will cover you in UK and elsewhere. What it will not and cannot do is cover you in UK driving a UK registered car regardless of whose it is or what you intend to do with it. It's been stated time and time again that to be valid in UK insurance must have been issued by a menber of the UK MIB, no French insurer is therefore any cover they issue is not valid in the eyes of UK law, that is not to say that they would not pay out on a claim but that is a different thing altogether and not what we are talking about.

I read sue's post to mean that she had got another car in France and that it was covered on her existing policy, no problem at all with that, similarly Rob Roys. If instead they mean that they bought cars in the UK and drove them on French insurance than they were breaking the law and were not insured at all and were lucky to get away with it.

French insurance company operatives are not lawyers and no more know the rules concerning such cross border matters than would your average UK operator know the rules for France, plus they are commercial enterprises out to make money !

Jay: It's not a question of complicating things, it's a question of driving within the law in UK and not running the risk of having your car seized and getting a fine and 6 points on your licence !!!

 

[cooperlola]

In your shoes, Shelly, I'd be tempted to approach my existing UK insurer to ask for a short-term policy up until the departure date.

After that, you can insure in France.  Nick Chubb at Asttral:

http://www.asttral.com/

amongst many others, I'm sure, will happily arrange theFrench insurance in advance of your arrival date in France, on the UK plates, in anticipation of the change to French ones within the statutory 1 month.

[AnOther]

What makes you think she has a UK insurer Coops ?

[cooperlola]

[quote user="AnOther"]What makes you think she has a UK insurer Coops ?[/quote][:$]Oops yes, I see what you mean, AnO.  I made the asssumption that she lived in theUK and was about to move (new poster) but now see she appears to live permanently in the Lot.  Sorry, Shelly. 

[sid]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="sid"]ANO ... I keep coming across these tales about what you can, or more often cannot, do! What is different about the policy that Sue had? We have a French policy and it covers the car we own for use anywhere in the EU. Why would it not be allowed for the OP this time... it's their car and they're going to register it in France. I really am confused.

Just re-reading my post and it's not very clear. What I mean is, surely it's permitted to take out French insurance to cover the car until it's registered, even while the car is in UK? [/quote]A French policy on a French registered car will cover you in UK and elsewhere. What it will not and cannot do is cover you in UK driving a UK registered car regardless of whose it is or what you intend to do with it. It's been stated time and time again that to be valid in UK insurance must have been issued by a menber of the UK MIB, no French insurer is therefore any cover they issue is not valid in the eyes of UK law, that is not to say that they would not pay out on a claim but that is a different thing altogether and not what we are talking about.

I read sue's post to mean that she had got another car in France and that it was covered on her existing policy, no problem at all with that, similarly Rob Roys. If instead they mean that they bought cars in the UK and drove them on French insurance than they were breaking the law and were not insured at all and were lucky to get away with it.

French insurance company operatives are not lawyers and no more know the rules concerning such cross border matters than would your average UK operator know the rules for France, plus they are commercial enterprises out to make money !

Jay: It's not a question of complicating things, it's a question of driving within the law in UK and not running the risk of having your car seized and getting a fine and 6 points on your licence !!!

 

[/quote]

ANO I feel as though I'm trying to split hairs here, and I DO wish to understand! It seems to me now that the only point of contention is where the car is driven... is that correct?

French insurer, French reg car in driven in France or UK  - permitted.

French insurer, UK reg car (awaiting reg) driven in France - permitted

French insurer, UK car (awaiting reg) driven in UK  - not permitted? This last case must aply to loads of people who are about to move here permanently and who make trips back and forth during the run up to their move.

I had an imported car from Germany, insured it in France, initially on the VIN number and then on the WWW plate, before the French registration came through and drove it on a visit to UK on its temporary plates.

Also my motorcycle,  which was UK reg, I drove on French insurance awaiting the French registration (although NOT to UK admittedly).

I don't know why I'm worrying about this as it's unlikely to affect me again, but I would like to clarify it.

 

[crossy67]

If you are buying the car from a dealer you can get 7 day drive away insurance for about £10.00.  Then as long as it has tax and mot you're all legal.  We got 7 days cover on our new (used) car when we bought it and the dealer even left the tax on for us so we could drive it back through the UK legally.  Yours might want you to post it back to them once out of the UK though.

[Jay]

Like many people moving from the UK we brought our UK reg. car with us. We insured the car in France with a UK MOT and log book. We made several trips back and forth to the UK before we got round to registering the car here.  I had specifically asked the insurers whether we were legal in all European countries as we wanted to travel to Spain as well as the UK. When the mot ran out I obtained a CT and registered the car here.

Now one would assume the insurers know what they are talking about. I cannot say what the UK police would have done had they stopped us.

I am interested in the legal situation as I have every intention of buying my next car in the UK as they are so much cheaper than here. It would only be a case of buying and straight onto the ferry, no intentions of hanging around in the UK.

[AnOther]

[quote user="sid"]It seems to me now that the only point of contention is where the car is driven... is that correct?

If you want to put it that way. There really is only one thing you have to remember and that is to be driven on UK roads a UK registered car must be 100% UK road legal and that means insurance issued by a UK MIB company. There is no other option.

French insurer, French reg car in driven in France or UK  - permitted. - Yes

French insurer, UK reg car (awaiting reg) driven in France - permitted - Yes

French insurer, UK car (awaiting reg) driven in UK  - not permitted? - Yes

This last case must apply to loads of people who are about to move here permanently and who make trips back and forth during the run up to their move.

Not necessarily. If you haven't moved yet and are just shuttling back and forth, as we did in our old UK car for about 7 months doing our own move, there is absolutely no need or obligation to change to French insurance. It would be a foolish and counterproductive move as you could not have legitimately taken the car back to UK afterwards. If our UK insurance had run out mid task then I would have just renewed it.

I had an imported car from Germany, insured it in France, initially on the VIN number and then on the WWW plate, before the French registration came through and drove it on a visit to UK on its temporary plates.

You broke the rules then as I believe WWW plates do not permit travel outside of France. UK would not have had a problem with it though as it's unlikely anybody there would have had a clue what a WWW plate was much less the restrictions attached to it.[/quote]

[quote user="Jay"]I had specifically asked the insurers whether we were legal in all European countries as we wanted to travel to Spain as well as the UK. When the mot ran out I obtained a CT and registered the car here. Now one would assume the insurers know what they are talking about. I cannot say what the UK police would have done had they stopped us.

A very brave assumption but in one sense they were right, their insurance did cover you, but only from the French perspective, it did not comply with UK rules and if you had been stopped you almost certainly would have had the car siezed.

I am interested in the legal situation as I have every intention of buying my next car in the UK as they are so much cheaper than here. It would only be a case of buying and straight onto the ferry, no intentions of hanging around in the UK.

One minute, one day, one week, it makes no difference, without UK insurance it will be on the road illegally.[/quote]

[nomoss]

ANO, I'm glad to see you are just as meticulous about legalities when hauling your trailer in France [:D]

[quote user="AnOther"]I of course scrupulously ensure that mine never goes a single gramme over 500kg [Www]  [/quote]

[sid]

ANO - I did read up on temporary plates at the time (it was 7 years ago, so the details are bit hazy now) but I seem to remember that there were 2 types of temporary plate, possibly WW and WWW; I made this point to the importer and they supplied plates and temp carte grise which specifically said that the car could be driven outside the French Republic. The UK may not have had a problem about it, but I had to go through French Customs and show my papers and they didn't query it.

I accept your point about the pre-move situation where you could wait until you have finally settled before changing insurers and re-registering. I have heard of someone who bought a UK car here in France from another ex-pat and insured it during the French registration process, without temporary plates, and made trips to UK. I can only assume now that this was illegal too.

Edit: And what if the French company IS recognised by the UK MIB? Is this totally out of the question? My insurer is GAN; I was insured with them in UK. Allianz is now EU-wide (at least, maybe even worldwide).

[nomoss]

Companies who operate outside the UK but have Financial Service Authority (FSA) approval AND are MIB members AND insure UK registered vehicles, can load data to the MID.

http://www.mib.org.uk/Motor+Insurance+Database/en/MID+Faqs/Foreign+insurers+and+the+MID.htm

[AnOther]

[quote user="nomoss"]

ANO, I'm glad to see you are just as meticulous about legalities when hauling your trailer in France [:D]

[quote user="AnOther"]I of course scrupulously ensure that mine never goes a single gramme over 500kg [Www]  [/quote]

[/quote]Ah but you mistake knowing the rules with observing them, not necessarily the same thing nor hypocritcal [;-)]

All I have attempted to do in this thread (and others even if it hasn't always come across that way) is clarify the rules when there has been confusion or misinterpretation. Whether others choose to follow them or not is of course up to them but I believe it's vital to remember that the the first rule of breaking rules is to know the rules you are breaking, and the potential consequences of doing so [:D]

[sid]

Oh well, I'm still confused about the rules! [blink]

[AnOther]

Confused about what exactly ?

[Shelly]

Hi,

Wow lot's of help there then. Ou french insurance said that he will insure the car for a month until we change the plates. As you say that is illegal although he assures us it's not. We have taken out an insurance with the garage while we're in the Uk. Currently getting quotes now for the car. A french insurer can't fully insure you until you have the log book etc. Hope this will be helpful to other people. We have made a saving of about 7000 on the car buying it from the Uk. It is LHD too. Thanks.

[Bob T]

[quote user="Shelly"]Hi,

Wow lot's of help there then. Ou french insurance said that he will insure the car for a month until we change the plates. As you say that is illegal although he assures us it's not. We have taken out an insurance with the garage while we're in the Uk. Currently getting quotes now for the car. A french insurer can't fully insure you until you have the log book etc. Hope this will be helpful to other people. We have made a saving of about 7000 on the car buying it from the Uk. It is LHD too. Thanks.[/quote]

Never believe your French insurer. His job is to get his hands on the premiums, and not to advise on the law. Should the police (French or British)  get you for doing something wrong, it will be you that is in the merde not the insurer.

[Will]

[quote user="nomoss"]

Companies who operate outside the UK but have Financial Service Authority (FSA) approval AND are MIB members AND insure UK registered vehicles, can load data to the MID.

http://www.mib.org.uk/Motor+Insurance+Database/en/MID+Faqs/Foreign+insurers+and+the+MID.htm

[/quote]

This is a bit of a red herring. Under European law, an insurer based in any EU member state can legally offer insurance in any other member state, and cannot be prevented from doing so as long as the insurance offered complies with the rules of the respective country. So AXA France, for instance, is entitled to offer insurance in UK, and, to take another random example, Aviva, an English-headquartered worldwide group, can offer insurance in France.

So far so good - in fact you could be forgiven for thinking that is what really happens. In actuality, the economic and practical considerations of foreign insurers doing business directly in other EU member states are so prohibitive, that companies operate in those other states purely through subsidiaries, dedicated to the individual states. Hence AXA UK is quite a different company from AXA France, although ultimately both are members of the same group. So French AXA insurance, being from a non-UK compliant company, cannot be legally sold in UK, and vice versa.

If my information is out of date (it was the subject of a bit of journalistic research a year or two back) and there is now a French insurer operating direct in the UK, or vice versa, it would be interesting to know.

Insurance is an incestuous business. Tie-ups between insurance companies, banks, and comparison websites abound. For instance, the fiercely-independent Direct Line, which won't deal with comparison websites, is part of RBS (as are Churchill, Green Flag, Privilege etc which are all over the comparison sites), Confused.com is owned by Admiral, as is Elephant (and Lelynx and L'Olivier in France), Compare the Market apparently only in fact compares companies from within the same operating group (Budget), and Go Compare says it is independent, but was set up with £30 million capital loaned by eSure. If you either follow Iggy Pop's advice, or insure through your bank, you could be insured with AXA but not know it - Swiftcover and Lloyds TSB Insurance are both provided by AXA. It's much the same worldwide, there are many brands, but far fewer actual insurers. Another point of confusion, though a bit off-topic, is that whereas in UK a 'mutual' is, basically, owned by its policyholders, in France 'mutuelles' are just the same as any other corporate body, though many have their roots in mutual ownership that's often in the past. And 'mutuelle' is often used as a generic term for medical complémentaire (top-up) insurance.

[Will]

[quote user="Bob T"]

Never believe your French insurer. His job is to get his hands on the premiums, and not to advise on the law. Should the police (French or British)  get you for doing something wrong, it will be you that is in the m.e..r.d.e not the insurer.

[/quote]

Generally good advice, but in this case the French insurer is basically correct. When you register your imported vehicle in France, your first stop (or possibly the second, after visiting the insurer) should be the Hôtel des Impôts for your quitus fiscal (tax certificate). This doubles as a temporary registration document, allowing you to use the vehicle (in France only, unfortunately) for up to a month while the other formalities are completed. The month can be extended if single vehicle type approval or anything else that complicates what should be a simple process, is needed.

[Jay]

[quote user="Shelly"]Hi,

Wow lot's of help there then. Ou french insurance said that he will insure the car for a month until we change the plates. As you say that is illegal although he assures us it's not. We have taken out an insurance with the garage while we're in the Uk. Currently getting quotes now for the car. A french insurer can't fully insure you until you have the log book etc. Hope this will be helpful to other people. We have made a saving of about 7000 on the car buying it from the Uk. It is LHD too. Thanks.[/quote]

That's a great saving. I presume the car was nearly new to save that amount. Can you say where you bought it?