Electric vehicle charging points

[Théière]

Keeping an eye on the emerging electric vehicle market, in particular the new 2018 Hyundai Kona with it's expected 290 mile range getting my attention.  I used google maps and a french translation of electric vehicle charging point but apart from a Tesla fast charge at Calais and a few near Paris there didn't seem to be very many at all.

Anyone able to share the location of charging points from Calais/Dieppe to Tours?

[andyh4]

Well if the North is anything like the rural area we live in you should not have problems.

The local town car park (pop: less than 4000) has two charging points, and the nearest hypermarket (admittedly 45km away) has four.

[Gardengirl]

I’ve not noticed any in the north, but, as andy says, there are good numbers elsewhere.

Our town of around 10,000 inhabitants has 2 new, shiny charging points, as has the nearest village, population 3,000. However, best not to count on using the latter on a Friday morning, as they are within the market area.

[Loiseau]

Here's a link to charging points on the motorways

http://www.autoroutes.fr/FCKeditor/UserFiles/File/Bornes%20Recharges%20Electriques.pdf

Hope the link works!

[Loiseau]

Whoops! That seems to have shot off the page.

Maybe it’s better to go to this,

http://www.autoroutes.fr/fr/bornes-recharge.htm

And then get to the map from there.

[Théière]

Thanks, obviously the number will increase but at the moment there seems to be a big void along my route A28 or N154 which is not helpful as I wouldn't need to recharge by Rouen but may well need to by Dreux, some distance before Tours.

I will pay more attention on my next trip down and also ask Garmin if they have a database in the satnav.

[Loiseau]

Well if you know roughly where you want to charge, TP, why not just google "bornes de recharge xxxxxx" (insert departement or town)?

Eg I just tried for Dreux and got:

https://fr.chargemap.com/cities/dreux-FR

I don’t know how you pay for a charge, but maybe you do already?

[Harnser]

These charging points are all over Brittany - even in our tiddly little town of a 1000 population, but I have never seen a car using them.

A pity that the maps and apps that tell you where the charging points are don't tell you how many cars are queueing up waiting to get charged.

[suein56]

Loiseau wrote : I don’t know how you pay for a charge, but maybe you do already?

Does it vary by area ? Our local ones .. and we have them in many places .. are all free.

I have only ever seen one in use.

[YCCMB]

According to Loiseau's link, the "project" is to have them available pretty soon every 80km on autoroutes.

Auto plus.fr also indicates that most of them will be provided by EDF-Sodretel and you'll need to buy an abonnement which will cost 70 cents for 5 minutes of charge or 50 cents depending on the type of abonnement you opt for. Or, you can buy a prepaid card at service station shops, costing €20 for 2 X 30 minute charges.

[woolybanana]

So, in conclusion, this electric vehicle technology is not really worthwhile yet unless you have a hybrid vehicle. It will be a few more years until hydroden vehicles are fully available which is clearly the future.

[YCCMB]

This subject got me curious so I have just been reading about it to learn a bit more. By the sounds of what I've read about France (see above) and the U.K., the issues seem to be the same.

Not every charger is born equal, nor every electric car. For a start, the plug is often different and some chargers are only compatible with some cars (e.g. Tesla provide the, for their own vehicles, and they're free to use, but only compatible with their cars). Either the vehicle companies, or electric companies provide chargers, and some are, indeed, free. However some aren't. In the UK, apparently, each different charger owned by a different company requires, if you need to pay, their own particular swipe card for payment. So you can't always just rock up to one and be able to use it, as you can't, seemingly, use your ordinary credit card.

As I read, and it's logical, if you have an electric car and do regular journeys, say, to and from work, you can charge at home and potentially at the office if your workplace has chargers. This is fine, but if you're off on a journey to a new place, or a journey where you'll need to recharge en route, then it seems like quite a lot of research will be required before you set off.

[Théière]

I agree, hence why I thought I would ask. I looked at the website but didn't input exact towns, wrongly I thought the general map would have shown them, (if they had a decent web designer, why would should you have to keep clicking page after page? There are adapters to change to different companies leads although this does show up how stupid and short sighted gov, transport ministers are. Teslas have to be dedicated as their supercharger point would melt some cars lol.

Wooly I believed that hydrogen would be the future but its still a combustion engine. As to hybrids, just a con, tiny range battery then tiny engine guzzling fuel. May as well stick to fossil fuel until better battery packs come along. Panasonic have an advanced battery which allegedly recharges in about 20% of the time a conventional battery. The 2018 Nissan leaf hasn't active battery management so its poor when put along side the 2017 model or the smaller battery Hyundai model because they do have proper battery management. Hyundai and Kia are sharing technology and are some way ahead of most manufactures in the affordable car stakes ( Tesla are too expensive to buy, own or repair)

[pomme]

There is a detailed map here https://fr.chargemap.com/map and also a mobile phone app/

The numbers on the map indicate the number of charging points in an area so you need to zoom in to see all the charging points. You need to subscribe to see the details of the charging point.

However, there is another version of the map http://tinyurl.com/y9fygjx7 (you need to scroll down) If you click on a charging point on that map you can see what type of point it is and whether there is a cost

[Harnser]

Thinking about this charging of plug-in electric vehicles.

Take a current ordinary motorway fuel station which has maybe a dozen fuel pumps. Assume each vehicle takes 5 minutes to fill up. So each pump can fill a maximum of 12 vehicles an hour, there are 12 pumps so 12x12 = 144 cars happily on their way per hour.

Transpose that scenario to the charging of electric vehicles.

Assume it takes 30 minutes to charge a vehicle - I don't know if this is realistic but I've got to assume something.

With 12 charging points only 24 cars can "fill up" per hour.

To "fill up" 144 cars per hour 72 charging points will be needed.

If the electric cars take an hour to charge 144 charge points will be needed to get the same throughput.

And this needs to be replicated at every motorway services.

I'm not convinced that the authorities, in their enthusiasm for electric cars, have thought this through properly.

[Théière]

You are of course right Harnser, based on the current model it's quite pathetic, already in the UK there have been 2 hour waits.  Its part of the reason I replied to the mayor of London and his cock eyed idea of banning domestic diesels inside the M25 by 2019. There simply isn't the infrastructure to support it.

If the Panasonic batteries take off, the 80% charge in around 50 mins from a 100amp supply could be 10-15 minutes and of course the range would increase as well.

Considering the stupid French domestic electricity abandonment then charging at home might well mean upping your electric supply and possibly the cable. One way out would be the Tesla powerwall system which can store and charge an electric vehicle and run the home from solar.  

[Théière]

[quote user="pomme"]There is a detailed map here https://fr.chargemap.com/map and also a mobile phone app/

The numbers on the map indicate the number of charging points in an area so you need to zoom in to see all the charging points. You need to subscribe to see the details of the charging point.

However, there is another version of the map http://tinyurl.com/y9fygjx7 (you need to scroll down) If you click on a charging point on that map you can see what type of point it is and whether there is a cost[/quote]

Ah that looks more positive.

http://www.avere-france.org/ou-trouver-les-bornes-de-recharge-en-france,1027.html

Second map down.

Quite a few on my routes [:D]

[suein56]

Quoting myself from earlier :

Does it vary by area ? Our local ones .. and we have them in many places .. are all free.

Having said that I have checked and, although it is true we have some free bornes, most appear to be payant.

Apparently they were all free going back a couple of years but some/most seem to have been upgraded to those ones which charge 80% of a battery in 1/2 hour. Surprisingly some take bank card payments, others take a dedicated card.

[Théière]

Thanks Sue, there seemed to be more available on the map I quoted from Pommes link. There were free ones in the UK but in the center of London a RFID tag is needed so presumably to obtain that there is a payment. Not seen a bank card one but will pay more attention.

[NickP]

Theiere wrote:

"already in the UK there have been 2 hour waits. Its part of the reason I replied to the mayor of London and his *** eyed idea of banning domestic diesels inside the M25 by 2019."

The mayor of London can't ban all diesels inside the M25 as he isn't the mayor of all of the inside the M25, thank dog.

[Théière]

[quote user="NickP"]Theiere wrote:

"already in the UK there have been 2 hour waits. Its part of the reason I replied to the mayor of London and his *** eyed idea of banning domestic diesels inside the M25 by 2019."

The mayor of London can't ban all diesels inside the M25 as he isn't the mayor of all of the inside the M25, thank dog.[/quote]

Me too Nick, nice concept but the vehicles and the infrastructure are not ready. If the mayor gets his way it will cost me £12 to cross the south circular in 2019. 

[Théière]

[quote user="woolybanana"]So, in conclusion, this electric vehicle technology is not really worthwhile yet unless you have a hybrid vehicle. It will be a few more years until hydroden vehicles are fully available which is clearly the future.[/quote]

That's not all that accurate as the latest vehicles are usable for people in their daily lives. I want something that will cover my journey across the UK and to France, which will be on sale later this year at sensible money.

Apologies for my earlier comment about hydrogen fuel cells, The latest tech uses a hydrogen stack to chemically produce electricity to power the electric motor, therefore with the high charge density of hydrogen that type of hybrid is worth looking at. Kia/Hyundai are again almost ready to produce this option, likely in 2019/2020.

[richard51]

Perhaps a total ban on domestic diesels is a little early, but I had the (dis)pleasure of travelling on the inner ring road recently and the number of large domestic, mostly diesel, cars with one or perhaps two passengers in was absurd - obviously the salaries in London are too high!

[Théière]

I disproportionately disagree. [:D]  Due to the state of the roads and speed bumps, the number of Chelsea tractors has increased disproportionately. I have to pay a congestion charge to enter London  in my Euro 4 1500cc diesel. The owners of 3000cc 4x4's pay the same whilst being twice as polluting. The T charge doesn't yet effect me.  It is the availability of low cost finance and not necessarily the salaries that is keeping the motor industry going and London congested.

That is why this thread is actually about Electric vehicles, the almost pointless discussion of petrol and diesels is not needed here.

[richard51]

But you started the discussion with your comment about the mayors ideas - I actually think it is the correct way to go, but I do agreed that charges should be based on pollution levels. It does make sense though to go after domestic diesels initially rather than commercial ones.

NB Euro 4 appears to be the Minimum requirement. Should we not strive for better.