UK Family Allowance - Payable?

[Wealthy]

Is UK family allowance still payable to family's taking up residency in France?

[Val_2]

Yes it is BUT first you must sign off with Newcastle and get some paperwork from them stating what they paid you etc. In France you then contact the CAPM and register with them. You will need all the usual paperwork and a RIB from your french bank for payment direct and although it is not compulsory anymore some depts still ask for a Carte de Séjour. This then takes a while to be handed onto the CAF and in about three months you should start to receive payment direct into your french bank. You will find the back payments from when you finished with Newcastle will also be reimbursed,but remember that in France patience is a virtue and you may have to make more than one visit if something isn't correct the first time.

[LesLauriers]

To add to Vals response, no family allowance is paid if you have only one child. With two children the allowance is less per child than that of the UK but increases for 3+ children. Sorry but I don't have the figures to hand just now.

 

[Floodfamilyagain]

Hi, the figures for 2004/5 are as follows:

2 children 112,59€

3 children 256.83 €

4 children 401.08€

for each additional child 144.25€ (plus a medal!?)

Once a child reaches the age of 11, you receive an additional 31.67€ per month following their birthday.

This increases to 56.29€ after they turn 16.

There are additional payments which you may/not qualify for, one of which is the :

Rentree Scolaire which will automatically be awarded by CAF if you qualify.(Income based) 257.61€ per child aged 6 - 18 paid at the end of August.

The website is comprehensive and gives the income thresholds etc... for various allowances available.

http://www.caf.fr

France is more generous in its allowances for larger families , because of the need to encorouge couples to have more children to maintain population levels.Having 4 children already I have to say that no amount of money would encorouge me to have a 5th!!!!!! Hope this is of some use

Natalie

[Jc]

Or do you mean can you still claim UK allowance whilst living full-time in France?

[Nick Trollope]

[quote]Or do you mean can you still claim UK allowance whilst living full-time in France?[/quote]

I suspect so, to which the short answer is no. Even if you are still paying Tax/NI in the UK, but not living there. Same for WFTC etc..

[Kaf]

Hi All

We live permanently in France, but Graham works in the Uk, paying UK tax and NI.

When we first moved our child benefit was cancelled because he was intending to work here, but when he started working in the UK again, we made a new claim and are now once again receiving UK child benefit.

Children's tax credit is another matter even though it is administered by the same department!

We made a new application for this too and initially were awarded same. However, some bright spark has cancelled the claim because we "don't meet residency requirements". At the moment we are in dispute with the Inland Revenue over this, as it seems to depend on who you speak to as to the interpretation of the rules!

As far as child benefit goes, though, you are probably still entitled to it only if you or partner are still paying UK tax and NI.

Karen

[BJSLIV]

I think you will find that irrespective of where the father is working, if a child is permanently living outside the UK then entitlement to both benefits cease. It is the location of the child that matters . For example if you are working abroad but the child remains in the UK , then the person looking after the child should  claim the benefit. If the family is living in France then you join the French tax and benefit system.

However we all know that they often get things wrong when calculating benfits, just ask all the people currently facing withdrawl, or repayment of tax credits wrongly given!

 

From Hansard.

Child Benefit

Miss Hoey: To ask the Secretary of State for Social Security what checks operate to prevent those living abroad receiving child benefit paid into a United Kingdom bank account; and what estimate his Department has made of the amount of money thus claimed.

Mr. Andrew Mitchell: Child benefit is normally payable only to those who are resident in the UK. Exceptions are made for temporary absences abroad for up to eight weeks, and for longer periods in certain circumstances where a child is absent abroad for education or medical purposes. When people leave the country, payment of child benefit terminates after the eighth week. A number of different mechanisms are used to prompt notification by those leaving the country for longer than eight weeks.

Operation Rattle was launched in November 1995 to deter this type of abuse. To date, cases have been found which, if action had not been taken, could have led to expenditure of up to £8 million

[Kaf]

Hi

In reply to the last post, I can only repeat that we gave Inland Revenue all of our living and working arangements, and they even use our French address as the contact.

I think that the quote from Hansard was more related to people who move abroad and fail to notify the authorities that they are no longer in the UK, rather than to those who live in the EC but continue to work in the Uk and pay UK dues.

We actually notified that we had moved and benefit ceased until we made the new claim.

If you look at Booklet SA29 (social security benefits in the EU) para 21 clearly states that if you are employed in a job where you must pay UK contributions (which is the case for us) you can usually get UK child benefit even if the child is living in another EC country.

All I can say is, if you think you could be entitled, advise the authorities of the situation and see what they say

Karen

[LesLauriers]

Kaf, in these circumstances what are you doing about health cover? Are you covered by CPAM? through an E form or have you had to take out private insurance?

You say that in your case payment of taxes in the UK is compulsory, is this because your husband works for the UK Government (teacher, policeman, armed services etc)?

 

 

[Kaf]

Hi

My husband works in the Uk so has to pay Uk tax and NI.

We were covered by E106, until he started work again. At the moment we're in the process of sorting out with Newcastle what our new cover will be, but apparently, we will be covered by an E form. The person I was speaking to wasn't exactly sure which one, but is referring the matter higher up!

[opas]

floodfamilyagain.  You mention in your post re french fam allowance that once a child reaches 11 years the allocation increases by 31.67 euro per month. I have just looked on the CAF website and into my dosier,but cannot find any mention on this. Our eldest was 11 at beginning of August, no change in payment and nothing on my dosier,where is this mentioned?

Thanks in advance

[Teamedup]

Yes that is right, but I'm not sure if it is when the second child is 11 rather than the first. Which ever  it is, it's  from 11-16 and it goes up again from 16 onwards and unless they start in full time employment stops at 20.

[Janey]

I,m in the same position as Kaf, we all live here permanently but hubby works in the UK, therefore all taxes and contributions are paid in the UK. We too, receive UK family allowance because of this and are covered for health care by an E form.

Janey

[Teamedup]

Janey, I thought that you ran a business here? How does that fit into these rules.

Usually if both spouses are working, they both have their own SS numbers and pay in as individuals. As you are working here, why aren't you in the french system? as someone working you should be entitled to your own SS number in France and everything else it entails.

[Janey]

Teamedup, I don,t work here. We have 1 gite which we have let out this year for the first time, this does not have to be registered as a business but obviously any income from it has to be declared to the french tax man at the end of the tax year, which will be done. I had hoped to be working but I,m not.

Janey

[Teamedup]

I am growing to the point where I understand nothing about all this gite stuff what so ever.

So one can run gites and just declare for tax and for those who say they are coming and going to live off a gite income aren't running a business. Or like lots of things here, it is so complicated that the more one explains the more exceptions to the rules or different rules there are?

 

Very very confused TU

[Annodomini]

Hi Janey,

Is hubby physically based in the UK with a UK address for at least 183 days in UK? Or is he simply working for a UK company whilst living in France?

The benefits you refer to in the UK are I assume :-

1) Child benefit?

2) Working families tax allowance?

3) What is the E form you are covered under for health for you and the children and how long would the cover last before you are expected to change things - presumably to the french system? 

This would clarify matters for a lot of people if you could advised on some of the details, and could answer why some people are being told different things by the authorities.

All the best.

 

AnnoDomini

 

 

[Janey]

Can,t answer at all why people are told different things by different authorities, seems to be different with the different situations.

In our case we,ve lived here for 3 yrs now but hubby is still working for his same English employers,he only manages to get home approx every 2 weekends..not what we,d planned but as we,ve still got a lot of work to be done on our house thats how it has to be for now. The only allowance I get from England is familly allowance. We are covered for healthcare by an E109, this is reviewed each year and proof of his employment, tax, contributions etc have to be forwarded to Newcastle.

Teamedup, unless I,m wrong if someone has a gite complex or more than one gite then yes that has to be registered as a business but we were told by various authorities that only one gite is not considered viable as a business and believe me you certainly can not live on the income from one gite. There won,t be an awful lot to be declared this year  but as I said it will be declared, Mr le taxman knows about it already as he,s just shown me how to fill in the forms.

Janey

[Kaf]

Hi Janey

KAF again here. As you seem to be in the same position as us, have you or hubby claimed child tax credit and if so what was the result?

Karen

[Janey]

Hi Kaf, no we haven,t.

Janey

[Annodomini]

Hi Janey,

So hubby is in the UK for more than 183 days a year and works for UK company paying his taxes and NI in the UK.

You have E109 from Newcastle and reviewed each year on the taxes & NI paid in the UK by hubby.

But what is family allowance? I thought this was something discontinued years ago -

 

and replaced by Family Credit which is now renamed and split into one part Working Family Tax Credit and the second part Child Tax Credit. This is also based on income in the previous tax year if I understand it correctly.

Is this what you mean Janey?

Regards,

 

AnnoDomini

 

 

[Janey]

If it was discontinued years ago then I wasn,t aware of it. Myself and most people I know still call it family allowance or perhaps child benefit.

Janey

[SaligoBay]

I've been in the same position as Janey until recently, husband working in UK for UK company, taxed etc in UK.

Claimed family allowance/child benefit from the UK until he got a job here in France in June this year.  No problems.

Health cover was via company scheme, didn't have to worry about searching for a mutuelle.

I will be EXTREMELY glad to be out of the dual-tax dual-country scenario, for me it was a nightmare.  One tax form a year is more than enough!

Very disappointed to hear that I won't get family allowance in France since I now have only one child.  MOST unfair!!!

[opas]

Annodomini. UK Family allowance still exists,now called child benefit.

The Tax credits if I remember rightly have replaced the Married mans tax allowance .Both spouses declare their earnings for the year before and allowance is based on this.There are elements in this ,that if you pay nursery fees or have a disabled dependant the credits are increased.

 

working tax credits(also as far as i can remember) is an extra credit given for those whose earnings are below the minimum earnings