Might be moving to France

[artsole]

[quote user="Just Katie"]

 

  I certainly would but I am married..................sorry.[:D]

[/quote]

well..............that's my dream finished[:(]

I would love to just travel around europe in a 'camping car'....................mark, why not, what a great way to discover where you would be happy to live.[:D]

[cooperlola]

I also should have said, Mark, that it is still possible to find small properties in your price range.  Not palaces, and not in popular coastal resorts, but they exist.  Some are ruins, but not all by any means, and with plenty of time, you can still find a nice pad for one person if you look hard enough.  As an example, here are a few in our area:

http://www.century21.fr/trouver_logement/achat-maison-72-pays_de_loire.php

[David]

The idea of travelling round Europe/France has much merit, and I could get excited about it.

However there seem to be some downsides, which I am sure can be overcome, but I cannot see how.  Perhaps someone can advise.

Most importantly how do you cope with postal services?  In particular invoices, tax demands, household bills - assuming you keep a house.

How do you cope with banking services, transfers of funds, etc.

Television I can understand, but what about internet access?

Etc., etc.  The regular unavoidable details of life.

It seems to me that it is important to solve these aspects before taking off into the French wide blue yonder.

Perhaps this might form a new thread?

David

[artsole]

David,

Surely things like this are easy to solve in the modern world...........post office boxes for mail, forwarding addresses

Banking services...............you have one bank account and you arrange it on the internet.............internet = Wi Fi[:D]

But apart from that............isn't there just a dream of leaving all that 'crap' behind and just being a .................Gypsy![:-))]

[cooperlola]

Presumably, you'd have satelite broadband from the same dish as your telly and sort your banking etc from there?  So who needs snail-mail?  Does poste restante still exist?  I don't think Mark would have a house until he'd found the perfect location.  Evidently, people do it.  But you're right - nice idea for a thread - except it will make my feet itch!

[David]

Artsole,

I fully agree with you about "just being a gypsy", but I know that I am a bit too old and fuddy duddy to be able to just leave it all behind, and I suspect that that might also apply to the OP Mark.

At my age and health I would also need to consider health services, doctors and infirmiers.

I think that before taking off for months in a camper van I, and I think Mark too, would need to consider the downsides and solve them.

Perhaps a new thread?  If so which section of this forum?

David

[steve]

If I were you I would stop and have another think. Setting up a business is NOT easy. Cutting a bit of grass, cleaning pools, cleaning etc. You will have to become a registered company and have a siret number - you will if you cut grass end up being registered with MSA - you have to be assosiated with an organisation, depending on your trade. They take at least 50% of your declared income towards your cotisations (national insurance if you like) so, if you earn 20,000€, you declare roughly 10k (if you are a micro enterprise) and then you end up with 5k to live on (the other 10k is for running the company). Its not enough! France is a great place to retire to, but a sod to work in!

Its taken us 6 years to get to grips with the system (we hope) and to almost scratch a living - we have gone TVA registered this year, so we hope our costs will go down - we will have to wait a year to find out though.......

If you cant speak French then take lessons and try and get a job with someone else, or work on a campsite in the bar in exchange for bord & lodging.

Sorry to be so down, but its not easy! do lots of homework and join a couple of news groups to ask peoples opinions.

Good luck

Steve

[tinabee]

Why not look for "seasonsal work". I have found a few websites that offer accommodation as well as the job, which are anything from 6 to 11 months. They are normally in holiday areas or possibly working with young people, but it might be a way for you to come over, see if you like an area without incurring much cost.

TB

[artsole]

[quote user="David"]

Artsole,

I fully agree with you about "just being a gypsy", but I know that I am a bit too old and fuddy duddy to be able to just leave it all behind, and I suspect that that might also apply to the OP Mark.

 

David

[/quote]

David...................have you just insulted the OP mark[:-))] he might not see himself as 'too old and fuddy duddy'[Www]

actually I think I saw that he hadn't reached 50 yet.............................I sincerely hope that's not too old to be daring and do the gypsy thing[blink] if so, I'm well past it[:(]

[David]

You may be correct Artsole, in which case apologies to the OP  [:(]

However, I did read the bit about clerical work, and the general tone of the post.  Anyway, it tied it into the OP instead of hijacking the post [;-)]

David

[Panda]

[quote user="steve"]

If I were you I would stop and have another think. Setting up a business is NOT easy. Cutting a bit of grass, cleaning pools, cleaning etc. You will have to become a registered company and have a siret number - you will if you cut grass end up being registered with MSA - you have to be assosiated with an organisation, depending on your trade. They take at least 50% of your declared income towards your cotisations (national insurance if you like) so, if you earn 20,000€, you declare roughly 10k (if you are a micro enterprise) and then you end up with 5k to live on (the other 10k is for running the company). Its not enough! France is a great place to retire to, but a sod to work in!
[/quote]

Or to put it simply Steve, if you earn 20k you pay around 25% of it (i.e. 5k)  in tax and NI equivalent pretty much the same as you would do in the UK.  It's been done to death on this forum, if you work it all back the differences in what you pay (tax = more UK, NI quiv = more in France) are minimal.

 

[Just Katie]

Steve, I dont know much about the French system but

Turnover 20k

Profit       10k

Net Profit  5k............. surely not!![blink]

[artsole]

Seems like Steve has a good system...............will keep the tax collectors happy anyway?[:-))]

[Russethouse]

Perhaps it depends on your regime but one experienced member of this forum reckons that you lose 46% of your earnings.

[Just Katie]

Earnings or turnover?  Is 20k Steves earnings or turnover? 

If what you are saying is correct RH.  10k to run the company and 10k earnings therefore he should be paying 4,600euros in tax.  So there you go, it looks correct.

[Lollie]

Hi,

Follow your dream,     everyone has a right to try anything they wish.   Maybe write to the camping holiday companies, ie French Life,  they are alwys looking for seasonal staff at this time of year and it would give you the opportunity to try it out!!

 

Good Luck

 

Lollie

 

[Panda]

No, (it's ground hog day again), cotisations are paid on 46% of your taxable income, therefore 46% of 10k, and we are back to 5kish.

It could not (should not) cost 10k to run a company turning over 20k, this is just the allowance before tax and ni equiv are levied, not actual costs.  It is does cost him 10k to run the company I suggest he gives up and quick!

[Gardengirl]

Some really good ideas on this thread.

Re Lollie's posting; we spent a summer years ago doing work for a ready-erected tent company. It was hard work, but great fun, too - great memories and friends for life. These days I understand you get some proper pay and a day off; much more civilised. Working for one of these companies could give OP a base (a tent is supplied), some cash in his pocket and  he could look around the area for later in the year, odd jobs etc.

One drawback is that they are generally, but not always, in tourist areas - so by the middle of Sept the area could be fairly closed down. However, sometimes they are on the edge of villages or towns, with amenities on the go year-round. I do wonder, though, whether he would need a reasonable amount of French - enough to get by eg at the local hardware shop etc.

I also seem to remember reading about doing work for a type of cheque, which the work-provider gets from the bank. Does this scheme still run? I seem to remember tax was already taken into account.

Good luck, Jo

[Keni]

Keni here again -

Personally I would say just go for it - there are an awful lot of places out there to follow your dream - grab that motorhome and go, before you get too old or infirm to enjoy the life. Each day we plan and each day we find another drawback. If it weren't for sprog I would have Shirley Valentined' my way out long ago!!!

 

[Just Katie]

[quote user="Panda"]

No, (it's ground hog day again), cotisations are paid on 46% of your taxable income, therefore 46% of 10k, and we are back to 5kish.

It could not (should not) cost 10k to run a company turning over 20k, this is just the allowance before tax and ni equiv are levied, not actual costs.  It is does cost him 10k to run the company I suggest he gives up and quick!

[/quote]

Sorry Panda!  I agree that it should not cost 10k to run a company turning over 20k.  And, I would not let this post put me off.  Sorry Steve, but I think you are doing something drastically wrong..

[steve]

as a Micro, the gov are the boys that say how much it costs to run it - they look at 48% (it may have changed this year) of your turnover as taxable. the remaining 52% is 'running costs etc' now if you earn 20k,then around 9,600 is taxable - (with allowances you end up paying virtually no tax !) MSA on the other hand look at your declared income or 'profit' - 9,600 and steel their lump - approx 50% of that. Dont forget, MSA deal with everything from pensions to medical - we never pay anyone else anything.

We have gone TVA registered as of 1/1/08, so hopefully, we can off set new machines, cars etc against any profit, scuppering MSA! I dont mind paying my dues, its just when you come back from burying your mother in law (2 years ago) you find a demand for the last 3 years contributions on your desk - 3 lots totalling around 9k! Bare also in mind we had been paying what they told us to, and suddenly they remembered they had 'undercalculated' this other 9k!.

 Being honest and up front we pay, sorry I pay between 5 & 6 k pa now - Dawn will cost ne another 1200 or so - luckily she is covered medacally with her past employer until next year.

This is our 6th year in the business and i aint gonna give it up to anyone!

Have a nice day :)

Steve

[Panda]

[quote user="steve"]as a Micro, the gov are the boys that say how much it costs to run it - they look at 48% (it may have changed this year) of your turnover as taxable. the remaining 52% is 'running costs etc' now if you earn 20k,then around 9,600 is taxable - (with allowances you end up paying virtually no tax !) MSA on the other hand look at your declared income or 'profit' - 9,600 and steel their lump - approx 50% of that. Dont forget, MSA deal with everything from pensions to medical - we never pay anyone else anything.

We have gone TVA registered as of 1/1/08, so hopefully, we can off set new machines, cars etc against any profit, scuppering MSA! I dont mind paying my dues, its just when you come back from burying your mother in law (2 years ago) you find a demand for the last 3 years contributions on your desk - 3 lots totalling around 9k! Bare also in mind we had been paying what they told us to, and suddenly they remembered they had 'undercalculated' this other 9k!.
 Being honest and up front we pay, sorry I pay between 5 & 6 k pa now - Dawn will cost ne another 1200 or so - luckily she is covered medacally with her past employer until next year.
This is our 6th year in the business and i aint gonna give it up to anyone!

Have a nice day :)
Steve
[/quote]

Soooo you pay 5-6k on 20k, which is 25% is it not???  Back to the original point the allowance you get for running costs etc, (your words) do you actually use that much to run this business turning over 20k??  If so what sort of buisness is it and what are these costs?  To my mind it's this area you should look at as the amount you pay to MSA (or it's equivalent body) will not change with TVA registration.   Granted you can off set some costs such as vans (be careful not always cars as this was a problem for a friend of mine recently) but unless these actual costs are more than the 10k quoted in our example you may end up with a higher 'profit' than before , a friend has changed over to TVA registered this year and is paying higher cotisations now than as a  straight micro.

I'm always confused by this argument, how much do you think you would pay in tax and NI on 20k in the UK?  EDIT just looked it up and the online approximations say 23% of 20k would be paid in tax and NI in the UK, it is just an approximation but you can see it's not far different from the french 'charges'. 

I think the term 'steal' is a bit harsh on MSA [:D] 

 

[steve]

I run a gardening / pool cleanining / gite service business.  I have fuel to buy for mowers, pick up truck and car. I have machines to buy - every year - last year 7 k for a mower, next year 14k for a bigger one! I have chemicals to buy for pools - we look after 23, so offsetting the TVA on all these things will help. Think how expensive fuel is -  perhaps spend 1500€ a year on Petrol and around 2 fill ups of diesel a week in the summer - 60€ a time - perhaps 3.5k a year? (+ once every week or 2 in winter). new tyres, servicing of mowers, car & truck, blades, all sorts. I think the gov may not be far off on their calculations? Perhaps I should double my hourly rate? (and lose out to all the people working on the black)

We have a 'reasonable' living over here - right now is the worse time for us - but, thankfully the grass is growing!  We pay I guess the same perhaps a bit more over here, but the main reason for being here is the way of life.  Dawn is standing in the local elections in a couple of weeks - we are on a couple of local committees, and have never entertained so much! So many people give up there businesses after 3 years - and run off back to the yUK. We have stuck it out, although its not easy. We have been running the business since 2002.

MSA ? mmm, an organisation that certainly do not know what they are doing! We dread any post from them - almost every couple of months or so, over the last 2 years we recieved " we have recalculated your contribution and have found you have underpaid by 500€ or 1200€"  or whatever the typist thought she would put! We are going to take this outstanding amount from your account this coming Friday.....failure to pay on time will result in a 300€ late payment charge blah blah blah. We took our French neighbour to see them once - they couldnt explain to him what we should be paying. Last year was 8000€ - on a 32k turnover (declared income of 16k), (some sales in the equation too). We earnt the same as we did the year before, so we are paying them what we did every month last year - it might just work out about right.....I hope.

It definately isnt easy to start up and run a small business over here - having said that I have never run one anywhere else - always had an employer! But as I said in my first post, thing very seriously about starting a new business - unless you have a money tree!

Steve

[Ian]

Good post Steve - speaking from first hand experience.

I'm sure this will have been of great help to Mark (the OP).  I'd surmise that pool-cleaners, gardeners and odd-job-men in West Europe and the US can make a living.  Few of them get rich.

Mark, it looks like it's possible - Steve's done it.  From Mark's posts, it reads to me that he's not trying to be the next Richard Branson - he wants a change of pace and scenary.  Follow Steve's example work hard and make it a success.

[steve]

thats the key - lots of hard work - your right - all I want to do is make a living - perhaps have a pool myself one day!

Steve