TVA at 5.5% confirmed for next year!

[Babnik]

Looks like we'll still get TVA at 5.5% next year!

http://news.tf1.fr/news/economie/0,,3254138,00.html

Steve

[LesLauriers]

Gosh - what a surprise!

I suspect it will still be at 5.5% the year after too, after all it is an excellent vehicle for stopping people from working on the black.

[GRT17]

Excellent news, long may it continue.

Gill

[WJT]

That is great news Babnik, thank you. Now hopefully a little pressure is off and we can take our time in making our decisions on needed works. Thank you very much indeed for the information.

[WJT]

Hi, sorry, I responded very quickly with my very happy reply before actually reading the article. My French really isn't up to much but from what I could make out, it still sounds as if there could be a chance that it may not happen. Did I read this wrong or did I just miss something?

[Babnik]

TVA for renovation is to stay at 5.5%, it's TVA for 'restauration' which is not decided yet. Is that not something to do with restaurants? Anyone confirm this?

[BJSLIV]

The article says that the Minister concerned (M Breton) has confirmed that the lower rate will continue . He doesn't actually say that Brussels has agreed to it continuing, and it does require EU authorisation. Can we assume that he wouldn't have said anything unless he knew it was OK?

He does specifically say that nothing has been heard from Brussels about the long awaited lower rate for restaurant meals!

[Mysfloss]

another article on same subject http://www.lemoniteur-expert.com/depeches/contenu/depeche.asp?dep_id=D82CCC39A&news=1 

[Deimos]

I was told yesterday (by a company that is to install my

fire) that the 5.5% has not beel approved by the EU yet and that it is the

Germans that are objecting to France’s special 5.5% on renovations.

Ian

[Val_2]

Yes we've been informed too that NO decision has been made yet due to all the bellyaching by the germans and the british. Hope the scheme continues because a lot of artisans may be forced onto the black economy when they have to find the TVA every quarter along with increased cotisations and not enough work coming in because people won't be able to afford it any more. Jobs may also be lost as well.

[Opalienne]

Decision has been postponed to the European Council meeting on 15/16 December.   It's the Germans who are blocking it.

[zeb]

Val - if you listened to French news it's not Brits "bellyaching", it was the German government mainly who opposed the reduced TVA in France. It may lead to fewer renovation jobs so it will be a bad thing if France does lose it, but why would it force you into the Black economy?

Haven't you already charged it to your clients? Just keep it separate and pay it when due - like we did in the UK. Or am I missing something here?

Forgive me for saying this (and I may be wrong) but you always sound so bitter and obviously hate running a business, so why not go back to being a one-man band - far fewer problems and expenses.

[John_B]

According to a Reuters report which I have seen on the "Free" portal today, the rate of 5.5% will be kept in force until it is either extended or thrown out by others. There is a meeting next week where it could be discussed, followed by another in January. However the French Govt. intend to keep fighting to retain it - that's if my French is upto the translation!  The report appears to be of an interview on France Inter (radio). The link is shown below:

http://actualite.free.fr/actu.pl?doc=economie/3_2005-12-07T094323Z_01_DEM731392_RTRIDST_0_OFRBS-FRANCE-BRETON-TVA-20051207.XML

regards

John

[Val_2]

Zeb. We don't have a french TV at the moment so I can't get the info from there. All I heard was a faint BBC Radio 4 broadcast a while back about this problem and it did mention thatTony Blair and the germans were trying to stop France from having the reduced rate. Not knowing much about the british government only from what I read and hear as we left a long time before he came in,I presumed TB was still against the rate in France and I stand to be corrected by those with more contact with the UK.

As for being bitter, yes,we do get bitter because no matter how hard you work here and himself works 7 days a week and has done nearly all year,there is always someone waiting to take it off you and the interest is horrendous if you are late paying. At the end of the day,we have a lot of contact here with other artisans who are not foreigners and they all moan the same that the government has us all in a stranglehold and we feel we are paying off the national debt singlehandedly sometimes. Even our local garagiste refuses to take on an employee and works late into the night because he can't afford those charges. I've just had to pay nearly 500€ for official paperwork to sack someone legitimately because he committed a faut grâve in our time and refused to resign so he could go and claim benefits immediately - tell me, wouldn't you feel bitter too when all you are trying to do is earn a living and people like that bleed you dry. If you take a look at www.infobilan.fr you can see just how many businesses have failed this year and previously in your region,usually through no fault of their own except they fell foul of the social charge system. We were working here long before the 5,5% TVA came in and paid our quarterly amounts back if it was due with no problems,but people get into bad habits and will now have to make sure they keep this back,that is all I was saying. You obviously don't know me and just reading words on a computer screen does not convey me in any way of how I really am person-wise. On a different note,we heard today that some english friends who have been here for the past six years have decided to throw in the towel and move to Spain after hardly any B&B bookings this year and very few last year,naturally they are pretty bitter after investing a great deal of their savings into the business and making a home here but they just can't afford to go on and pay their charges too. 

[zeb]

Val, thanks for not biting my head off. I must admit I expected a F.O. message. We have a business and have to work with other people occasionally but make sure they are registered as well, it works out easier and cheaper than employing someone for the occasional job which is too big for one. Not sure how France views sub-contracting, but when there is the odd job which requires two, I just have to go down that route!!

Sorry folks for taking this off topic. We'll see what happens to the TVA rate later next week . Are we taking bets?

[WJT]

I believe I caught the tail end of a report on the french news confirming that the 5.5% TVA was approved for next year. Can anyone confirm this to be true?

[Opalienne]

I don't see how this can be true, given that it has to be agreed by the European Council, whose meeting doesn't start until tomorrow.

[WJT]

Hi Opalienne, thank you for that. I caught the tail end of a report, it appeared to be a man holding a t-shirt in the air in front of a cheering crowd with 5.5% TVA written on the front of it, was hoping it meant that the decision had been made. Will keep fingers crossed.

[Monika]

Any news on it??

[SC]

It's to be decided at the meeting of Finance Ministers on (I think) 24th January.

sc

[Miki]

On a different note,we heard today that some english friends

who have been here for the past six years have decided to throw in the

towel and move to Spain after hardly any B&B bookings this year and

very few last year,naturally they are pretty bitter after investing a

great deal of their savings into the business and making a home here

but they just can't afford to go on and pay their charges too.

Val,

Not sure how well they will do in Spain if they will be trying to earn a living there. Quite a few Brit failures there as well.

I was interested in this story though. Who exactly are they 

bitter with,  if their plans did not work out with their B&B ?

Sure, if they were registered there would be a fair amount of 

annual cotisations etc to pay but as in any business, you have to weigh

up the pros and cons before starting out. Them having very few

clients  in 2004 and hardly any this year, suggests to me that

they were perhaps badly positioned, poorly advertised, not too good a

general business plan originally, place maybe not quite right and so

on. Are they blaming it on the cost of cotisations or on no clients

about or ?

It is all very well to think, as many we have come across do, that one

can just buy a place, spend some money on it and then wait by the door

to coin it in. Our experience has been , yes you have to lay out and

you have to buy in the right place, you must  think of it as a

French business and advertise with French specialists and not British

sites that is aimed simply at Brits and certainly have enough rooms and

an area where you can command good nightly rates, if it is going to be

a place that will give you a decent salary for all your hard work

I could go on but your friends have gone now and it is them of course this should be aimed at.

 I am sorry if it sounds  like I am having a go at you but I

am not. I just get a little peeved when the Brits that don't make

it  put the blame on everything but their own often poorly thought

out plans.

By the way, did I hear that Restos are now going to be on 5.5% tva. I

caught the front page this morning but was in a rush to collect someone

from the Ferry and forgot about it until tonight. I know all summer

there have been banners outside retsos all over the place, asking for

support for restos and their case for lowering the tva.

[Iceni]

Miki

Part of the blame can/will be laid at the door of the "move to somewhere sunny" TV progs where most of the contestants say that they intend to open a B&B and/or gite business and make it sound so easy. Do ANY of them have experience of running any sort of  business back in the UK where there are no language problems and cotisations are simpler and cheaper e.g. NI is (or at least was when we were there) voluntary ? I suspect not. And as for a business plan, market research etc "Que" as poor old Manuel was wont to say.

How many times on this forum have you read "we are moving to x, will someone please tell us about the schools, weather etc we can expect" or "I have bought an old fermette to convert to gites, how much rent will I get" ? Yet more indication of a total absence of planning. The old saying PPPPPP comes to mind.

B&B/ gites are apparently not seen as businesses so why is any experience or skill required. And I am the first to admit that I know less than nothing about the type of business that you run.

I cannot say whether the above comments are relevant to Val's friends so will be seen as overly critical - but there does seem an incredible naivete (?sp) or worse about many of the Brits who come to France.

John

not

[Val_2]

Miki. We weren't that surprised to hear about the lack of bookings for these people over the past two years, thats what happens when you buy in a cheap area property-costwise and that has more brit holiday homes than day to day residents and also,many of their clients were prosepective purchasers too so its a mushroom thing. Another factor is the Brittany winter as they are quite isolated and high up and the wind blows for days on end sometimes out there which makes them both quite depressed as well as living next to a very very muddy farmyard/neighbours. Ill health too I think on the part of one of them is very much an incentive to move south for some winter warmth and as for the B&B business, I don't think they would bother to continue in that line and probably just retire early. I heard from another couple on saturday that after several years here they are moving back to the UK for definate in early 2006 as it is not what they thought it would turn out to be and for their old age, definately not. I think 2006 will see a lot of families return to the UK in search of their old lives again as the reality of what real french life is like does not correspond with their original perceived dream.

[Gabe]

This has probably been covered before, but.... We are just starting the renovation of our house, (no heating, no kitchen etc) but are still resident in England until next summer. How do we register/apply to benefit from the reduced TVA ? Can we benefit if we are presently not French tax payers ?

Gabe

[Ron Avery]

You don't register for reduced rate TVA and it has nothing to do with tax registered or not

Its the TVA (or VAT in the UK)  rate that your artisans charge you for work and materials for work that is classified as refurbishment on principal dwelling houses over two years old

If you buy your own materials you will pay 19.6% TVA,   If the 5.5%  continues into next year as seems likely now, you will pay the TVA rate applicable at the time of the invoice, but before you rush over to get a builder, you will probably wait a very long time for a decent registered builder most of them have order books well intio next summer, if you get a builder quickly, ask yourself why is he available and then ask to se his SIRET number and Insurance.