Whether to renovate or to buy something already renovated

[Hollie]

Hello,

Seems there a lot of posts within the renovating section so hopefully people with lots of advice.

My partner and I are currently looking for somewhere to buy in Haute Garonne, near Toulouse and we've come across a lot of older properties which need renovating. When I say renovating, it seems that they are habitable with running water etc but need work doing.

We're trying to weigh up whether it would be better to pay more and buy something which is already done or to have a go at it ourselves. We've tried looking into costs but its very difficult to estimate without calling builders etc and getting long winded quotes!

We both have drops (mine allows me to have quite  a lot of time off) which means I would be able to put a lot of work into it and my partner has the weekends free.

Thanks for any advice

Hollie

[maude]

I would be more than tempted the second time round in looking for somewhere that doesnt need renovation.The costs and hassle do not seem to me to worth it.I would try and find something more suitable to my tastes and much easier to maintain or even  more convenient to live in-preferably a new build but on an established plot.But thats my fault!! Maude  Good luck in the search!

[Anton Redman]

Unlike the UK you will not have fast rising house prices to pull you out of the financial mire.  You also end up with a holiday home that is almost bound to turn into a penance rather than a pleasure at some stage in the renovation.  You want to go on holiday but are actually gong to work. When we started our first renovation we were both pretty well travelled and had no places left that we felt visit. It swallowed all of our holidays for six years.% years.  I would not have wanted to do it in my thirties.

 

If you enjoy the work and would find it a welcome change from what you do for a living then renovation is fine. When we finally moved over we took on a large house that needed a lot of work. I am enjoying doing it and we both find the end result very satisfying. On average balancing easy bedrooms versus smaller but complex bathrooms we seem to take about six weeks hard graft to do a room.

 

We spent a long time looking at houses and failed to find what we wanted for sale, let alone at a reasonable price. So finally took on another renovation. Financially we will be alright because we took on something which was basically sound but looked very daunting.  In my opinion there a a lot of part finished houses for sale which will stand their owners at a finacial as well an emotional loss.  

 

Best of luck whatever you decide.

 

[Hollie]

[quote user="Anton Redman"]

Unlike the UK you will not have fast rising house prices to pull you out of the financial mire.  You also end up with a holiday home that is almost bound to turn into a penance rather than a pleasure at some stage in the renovation.  You want to go on holiday but are actually gong to work. When we started our first renovation we were both pretty well travelled and had no places left that we felt visit. It swallowed all of our holidays for six years.% years.  I would not have wanted to do it in my thirties.

 

[/quote]

Sorry, I didnt make it clear in the beginning, this will not be a holiday home, its going to be our full time main residence. We're both quite young, early twenties so do feel we have the energy to do it, its more worries about cost etc

Thanks for your imputs

Hollie

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

Assuming that you're going to have to earn a living I'd say that a serious re-build-style renovation will take a lot of dedication. I remember our first home that needed a fair bit of work and that was daunting enough. If you can afford to stop earning for a year or so while you renovate a wreck you could re-direct that money to getting a decently habitable place.

The other thing a lot of Brits don't consider is buying a plot and having a house built. It would probably cost no more in total than a conversion/renovation and you get all the modern comforts guaranteed.

[sunny]

I would agree with some of the other posters that if you can find something renovated to your taste and budget, go for it.  We bought a house we love, that needs some renovation (adding some more bathrooms and redoing the kitchen) but no major structural work.  It is still a pain to get work done and make the house warm and cosy for winter (sometimes I think it is impossible with these old stone houses). If we had to do it all over again, we would buy a new modern house (hopefully interesting, not just a standard, suburban one). If not that, then a fully renovated older property.

If you do decide to go down the renovation route (and it is hard not to fall in love with the possibilities of some of the older properties), the main thing we have learned, is that it is not always best to use local 'talent', ....and it does lead to awkward situations if you are not happy with the work done.  While we were looking for our house, we had seen one property in Bordeaux that had been beautifully renovated by a building team (I think from Paris...?). The work was superb and the finish was to die for!   I wish we had gone down that route and used the best recommended workmen, irrespective of their location.  

Doing the work yourself is an option, but I don't know anyone who has gone down that route, so cannot recommend or suggest and pitfalls.  But I'm sure a bunch of folks here can share their experiences[:D]

Good luck and have fun! 

[sunny]

Found some cost estimates on the web - hope these provide some help

http://www.francethisway.com/renovation/cost.html

Text of the article was included below, but has been removed by a moderator due to copyright issues.

[Ford Anglia]

If I were starting again, knowing what I know now, this would be my goal:

1. Find something NEW-ish and to my liking, buy it as long as I could afford it.

2. Find something renovated and to my liking. As above. But beware of self-renovations, get someone who KNOWS to look at it for you[;-)]

3, and a long way down, find something and renovate it.

Look for : mains water, electricity, mains sewage, town gas etc.

DON'T be tempted by humungous acres of land, you have to maintain it and it can be a chore!

[Panda]

[quote user="Hollie"]

We both have drops (mine allo have quite  a lot of time off) which means h means I would be able to put a lot of work into it and my partner has the weekends free.

[/quote]

You  both have what??[8-)]

This is my first renovation whilst living in the property and it has cost more, it's very stressful, very tiring and it never ends!!  I would definitely goearly there project.

[Gastines]

You don't say if you have any experience of building renovation or even just decorating work? While it is satisfying to bring back to life a house,it can be very time consuming and quite expensive. If you have skills in this field you can obviously save yourself a few bob. It is worth checking that it will be your main home and that you can afford the cash and time to see the job through. If it does end up as a secondary home you could find yourself penalised by the CGT on the house sale and also be aware that there are now quite a few new regs regarding electrical works etc. etc.  Saying that we have renovated several and looking for another project.

Bonne Chance.

Regards

[Hollie]

[quote user="Panda "][quote user="Hollie"]

We both have drops (mine allo have quite  a lot of time off) which means h means I would be able to put a lot of work into it and my partner has the weekends free.

[/quote]

You  both have what??[8-)]

This is my first renovation whilst living in the property and it has cost more, it's very stressful, very tiring and it never ends!!  I would definitely goearly there project.

[/quote]

Applogies for terrible spelling! I meant we both have jobs...!

[Hollie]

[quote user="Gastines"]

You don't say if you have any experience of building renovation or even just decorating work? While it is satisfying to bring back to life a house,it can be very time consuming and quite expensive. If you have skills in this field you can obviously save yourself a few bob. It is worth checking that it will be your main home and that you can afford the cash and time to see the job through. If it does end up as a secondary home you could find yourself penalised by the CGT on the house sale and also be aware that there are now quite a few new regs regarding electrical works etc. etc.  Saying that we have renovated several and looking for another project.

Bonne Chance.

Regards

[/quote]

Hi thanks for your input.

We dont have any experience of building renovation (although my boyfriend did work on a building site during one summer) although with decoration, we are fairly competent and fast learners :-)

It seems from having read the other posts, it would be easier as first time buyers to buy something already renovated and then get the practise going with the decoration in accordance to our tastes!

Maybe for our next one after this...

Its just so easy to get carried away with seeing properties of such charm going for very low prices on the internet and thinking it would be fairly easy to renovate!

 

[Monika]

After a complete Renovation project (all by Project Manager and Artisans) and with hindsight I would now go for a property you could live in and you could get away with doing a few alterations/redecorations (you remember: something like Carol Smilie did up in a week!!!)  

[Anton Redman]

If you do go down the renovation route do a bedroom and a bath room at the to house first so you have one compleated corner to retreao retreat to.  

Failing that learn to type as in << If you do go down the renovation route do a bedroom and a bath room at the top house first so you have one completed corner to retreat to.  

[WJT]

Arhggg! This has happened to me the other day, after writing a lengthy post, I hit submit and it doesn't work.[:(]

So instead of re-writing the whole post, in a nutshell for what it's worth, I would not recommend renovations.

If we had to do over, we would have upped the budget and bought an old property already renovated.  This way the poor sods that renovated would have lost the money and have dealt with all of the heartaches with the builders. Luckily we didn't buy our property here as an investment but if we had, there would be no way we could re-coup what we will need to spend to finish renovating. Hindsight. [:(] If only someone had given us this advice.

Having said that, we love our house but when all added up we could have bought a beautiful renovated cracker of a property to start with.

[Boiling a frog]

I would go for something not renovated or a new build

Judging by some posts on this and other forums the renovations are bodge jobs and you will soon discover dodgy electrics, leaking plumbing and crepi walls.

[Northender]

Having spent 15 years renovating our farmhouse I would recommend it.

We bought a "wreck" that had'nt been lived in for 60 years and started by taking a second hand caravan and leaving it in the garden.

Then most holidays we, together with the help of friends/family , got stuck in.

It really is amazing what can be acheived if you have the energy and the will.

The most important thing is that you have got to enjoy it , if it ever becomes a chore , then it becomes pointless.

I used to say (and still do) I would rather be doing this than lying on a beach on the Costa del Sol.

The amount of satisfaction we get everytime we see our holiday home is immeasurable.

If you think you can do it then do it!!

[WJT]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

I would go for something not renovated or a new build

Judging by some posts on this and other forums the renovations are bodge jobs and you will soon discover dodgy electrics, leaking plumbing and crepi walls.

[/quote]

I agree with Boiling a Frog. There is no way I would have bought an old stone property that was renovated DIY. I would have only bought a property renovated by professional qualified artisans.

[WJT]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

I would go for something not renovated or a new build

Judging by some posts on this and other forums the renovations are bodge jobs and you will soon discover dodgy electrics, leaking plumbing and crepi walls.

[/quote]

I agree with Boiling a Frog. There is no way I would have bought an old stone property that was renovated DIY. I would have only bought a property renovated by professional qualified artisans.

[Chris Head]

A really interesting thread.

One of the most important aspects is time.

The very fact that you're in your twenties means that you have time on your side Hollie but the downsidesare many and have been well covered already? Unless you both already have language skills it's (in my opinion) one of the most important aspects along with actively integrating here. This in itself is quite a task and not doing so is a trap many fall into when embarking on their renovation projects. I know of several people who have concentrated solely on working on their projects and neglected the social aspect of being here, to their cost when something goes wrong and they need to approach authorities/suppliers etc.

Another important aspect is the effect on your relationship and the sheer weight of responsibility of such a project. Diving headfirst into the unknown (I love doing it myself but my sanity has always been questionable) can have serious effects on individual and joint morales once the enormity of the task and the full realities of renovation become apparent. The cost to relationships can be quite steep, the failure rate amongst expats is significant...yes I'm one of them.

Bp's approach is spot on, mental attitude can overcome most hurdles, coupled with knowledge of ones own limitations and total honesty between yourselves could turn your ambitions into your dream...going in with blinkers on could be very costly on many fronts.

So....do your homework carefully, talk about it until the cows come home and see where you end up!

The very best of luck.

[Hollie]

Thank you for everyone's post. It really has been interesting to see what people feel at first hand experience...

People have mentioned about whether I have any language skills and I've got a degree in French and my boyfriend is French so that shouldnt be a problem but I hadnt really considered the effect it could have on our relationship like Chris head mentioned...

Need to start thinking outside of the box :-)

Thanks

[Geordie girl]

Hi Hollie,

We bought an old house which was half habitable and the other half needed renovating. We moved in and found that the so called habitable part had to be taken right back to scratch as the wiring was lethal and the plumbing was shot, apart from other things. We may as well have bought a shell. I agree with anton, get a bedroom and bathroom up and running where you can hide while everything else is coming down around you, we had all our comforts in there but it was clean and warm. Everything takes longer to do and is loads more expensive than first thought.We`ve also found the bodged jobs of the previous owners and so have had their work to put right too, and no i`m not saying that all the houses are bodged, but ours was.

We hope to stay in this house long term which is just as well because if we sold, we would never in a million years recoup our money. If we had the chance to do it all again..............not sure what path we`d take. Probably a plot of land and a new build, but that can be hard too, as we have friends who are still living in a caravan 2 1/2 years later.

When you start viewing houses take your time and be hard in your viewings, take the rose tinted glasses off and don`t believe everything the agent or the sellers tell you.Buy your house slowly.............You`ve got all the time in the world. It`s not like the uk here where someone else might snap it up.

Chris is also right about your relationship too. You`re going to be together 24/7 and some couples can`t cope.

Good luck in your search and I hope you have loads of happy times ahead.[:D]

[Jo]

We bought one that needed re-decoration and modernising rather than renovation. It is a second home at the moment while we finish off here in Uk but will be our main residence in the long term. The nice thing about it is if we want to come over and not do any work and just have a holiday, it is perfectly habitable, while friends of ours who bought a renovation project, dread coming over.[:(]

[powerdesal]

Just to put the DIY ers point. Not all DIY stuff is bodged and not all "professional" artisans are good workmen.

My DIY wiring and plumbing is fully to French normes and my building skills are equal in quality if not in speed to a "professional" (definitely not in speed !!!!!!)

[Wibblywobbly]

An old post but still a good question.

Renovation covers a whole host of options.

I bought a place 6 years ago thinking 'this doesn't need a lot doing to make it habitable'..and I still can't make a cup of tea in it!

Many thousands of Euro's later, the place has had a new roof, fosse, completely gutted the inside back to stonework and repointed, extended into outbuildings, concrete floors, doorways knocked through, windows knocked through, damproofed, walls knocked down, all new doors, windows, shutters, and patio doors, gravel drive, flattened the garden, and all new electrics, plumbing and drainage. No DIY bodge jobs, all done by professionals.....and when it is finished it will be a unique, one off, home with character. It is located in a tiny hamlet and there is no noise apart from the occasional tractor, and birdsong.

Buying a new build gives you what?

If I was doing it again, I would find four stone walls in a field and turn it into a home. There is little point in buying something and then having to pay someone to remove most of it before they can replace it with serviceable parts!

I wouldn't buy new build, but that is just my personal preference?

...and some lucky swine may get all of my hard work and Euro's for a knock down price if I decide to sell, but hey, that's life!!

Cheers

Rob G