photovoltaic panels - any thoughts

[confused of chalus]

Has anyone signed up to have these panels on the promise that'it wont cost you anything because you will be paid for the power by EDF'?

Round our way lots of houses have them - but I cant help thinking it cant be as good as the salesmen say.

Any thoughts, advice, experiences please! I got talked into having the salesmen round next week and I want to know what to ask or whether to just send them packing.

[Quillan]

Hows your French coz the most obvious thing is to go ask the people that already have it. Also, don't forget that what they are talking about is getting money back for the installation via your tax so you have to be tax resident in France to gain the benefits. I am not to up to speed on all this these days but I believe there was something last year about the percentage of the money you get back changing (for the worst). If Clair is around I seem to remember she's the one to ask about the rebates, current tax repayment etc, etc.

[tonyv]

I think what they're talking about is selling electricity back to ERDF at quite a good rate; certainly more than you'd pay for it.

I know a number of people in the UK who have this, and it seems to be a good deal; don't know about France.

It is very expensive to install, around £30K, and payback is reckoned to be about 15-20 years; that's longer than I'd be prepared to wait. However, it seems better than having a wadge sitting in a bank, hoping interest rates will improve.

Having your roof covered in solar panels is maybe unattractive to some.

[NickP]

[quote user="tonyv"]I think what they're talking about is selling electricity back to ERDF at quite a good rate; certainly more than you'd pay for it.

I know a number of people in the UK who have this, and it seems to be a good deal; don't know about France.

It is very expensive to install, around £30K, and payback is reckoned to be about 15-20 years; that's longer than I'd be prepared to wait. However, it seems better than having a wadge sitting in a bank, hoping interest rates will improve.

Having your roof covered in solar panels is maybe unattractive to some.
[/quote]

If it's such a good deal why does it take 15-20 years to get your money back? Sorry it's a non starter the only person who gains is the salesman.

[Benjamin]

Without any shred of evidence I always get the feeling that if you decided to move house your property would be more saleable but you wouldn't get your money back i.e. a buyer would not pay a premium for the installation.

[KathyF]

We're actively investigating the possibility of this for our UK house and will almost certainly decide to go for it. Interest rates are so low, that the prospect of being paid by the electricity company, even for the electricity we use ourselves, let alone what we export to the grid, looks decidedly better than watching our savings depreciate as interest rates fall well below inflation. MOH is a Scot by birth and as careful as they come [;-)] but he's 99% convinced already and is busy getting competeing quotes for the installation. Hope that helps.

[Graham & Brenda]

I would treat with caution the payback period quoted by the supplier. There was some press coverage in the UK recently saying that they tend to exagerate the benefits (surely not??[:)]). Joking apart, I too would recommend that you speak to people who have already had them installed.

I would be sceptical of the guarantees offered, the possibility of the installer not being around and/or the technology being outdated before the cost is recovered, tariff changes etc. etc. The longer the payback period, the higher the risk.

[Quillan]

According to RICS it can take between 50 to 100 years to get your money back and are regarded as the least most efficient way of generating electricity which may explain why governments do not make them compulsory on new builds. Typically they only generate around 50% of your power needs in an average family home. I found the following article which you may find interesting. They have a life expectancy of around 30 years and their performance drops off after ten years to about 80% and by 50% after 20 years.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/solar-panels-take-100-years-to-pay-back-installation-costs-917202.html

You may also find the following two documents from RICS interesting.

http://www.rics.org/site/download_feed.aspx?fileID=1867&fileExtension=PDF

http://www.rics.org/site/download_feed.aspx?fileID=8091&fileExtension=PDF (start from page 8)

Until there is a massive leap in the technology and a drastic drop in the cost of the equipment I wouldn't bother.

If I had a salesman knock I would ask him to supply in writing what the guaranteed payback time on the whole installation will be before I signed anything. I think you would have more chance of finding rocking horse manure outside your front door than get any such guarantee.

 

[Russethouse]

[quote user="KathyF"]

We're actively investigating the possibility of this for our UK house and will almost certainly decide to go for it. Interest rates are so low, that the prospect of being paid by the electricity company, even for the electricity we use ourselves, let alone what we export to the grid, looks decidedly better than watching our savings depreciate as interest rates fall well below inflation. MOH is a Scot by birth and as careful as they come [;-)] but he's 99% convinced already and is busy getting competeing quotes for the installation. Hope that helps.

[/quote]

 I tried to persuade my OH into it, on the basis that its a much better return than an an ISA (of course you don't have the still money) There is a Which report - if you'd like it let me know

I think the outlay may be less in the UK, but apparently there is a converter which you should count on replacing after 10 years.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

It depends on a number of factors.

Our french friends have done this, although I believe the contract price EDF will offer you is lower than last year. I think they currently "earn" 2-3k per year. The cost is nowhere near the cost of 30K posted above. I think we were looking at 16k with a large amount of that coming back from the credit impot

Where you live is pretty important, south facing etc.

Is there still a Credit Impot when you get them installed?

The banks offer interest free loans (I think...although that could have been last week, not this week)

If you intend to live in the property in your old age , then it's a pretty good way of getting free electricity (if you a) live that long and b) are young enough now)

We looked into it and I think the payback was pretty good especially as we don't have big pensions, we thought it was a good idea for when we can't afford electricity

[NickP]

[quote user="crazyfrog"]

I think the payback was pretty good especially as we don't have big pensions, we thought it was a good idea for when we can't afford electricity

[/quote]

Can you please tell me at what age I will not be able to afford electricity? [:D]

[confused of chalus]

Thanks everyone. I was hoping that someone would actually have the system up and running - perhaps you are all too canny to have signed up! We are French taxpayers and I think there is an interest free loan available. I'll let them do their presentation and take the paperwork to go over it with a fine tooth comb. But working on the theory that there's no such thing as a free lunch, and if it looks too good to be true it probably is, I imagine the chances of a sale for these guys is slim.

[KathyF]

We got our first quote before heading across for our summer in Normandy and have other surveys booked for our return in september.  The figure we've already had quoted is considerably less than you mention (haven't got it to hand but can find it) and the sums add pretty well.  The firms are all local to us, with plenty of installations for us to check when we get back and I can foresee it happening this autumn if all goes well.  Will report back....[:D]

[confused of chalus]

Thanks KathyF - would be interesting to compare UK price with French. Not that we have any option! We have a south facing roof, and it wont be very visible. Are they very heavy - would this be an issue with our old beams? I'm quite sure the man on the phone said they were with EDF - but somehow I suspect it's a company using their name. Again, paperwork to be carefully scrutinised.

I have a vague feeling I have heard that there were companies doing substandard installations that EDF would not accept  so they never got their electricity sold to the grid.

[brianagain]

Our PV system (2.35kW) in the UK was commissioned 7 weeks ago and has already produced the pretax equivalent of 2.5% on the installation cost, in spite of the current poor summer in SW England.

I understand that EDF in France have recently cut the feed-in tarrif for PV installations due to their popularity.

Brian (again)

[Russethouse]

 Thats something that concerned me, that FIT would change.

 I've read and been told that contractors are not keen on fitting suplies to ordinary semi's as they have enough clients with big properties to keep them busy...the 'profit' is tax free and seen as a decent investment.

[Dog]

Any profit can be instantly wiped out if the 'scheme' of payment is altered or withdrawn.

Currently tax payers are paying through the nose for a few people to get rich through 'Green Schemes'.

The bubble has burst now in UK on wind farms not in production by September this year.

[Quillan]

[quote user="confused of chalus"]ThankI'm quite sure the man on the phone said they were with EDF - but somehow I suspect it's a company using their name.

[/quote]

We had a very senior executive from EDF stay last year. During breakfast one of these companies phoned up to try and sell me such a system. Once I got rid of him (you can tell them you rent the house, they put the phone down right away) I mentioned how annoying these phone calls were becoming from EDF. The guy from EDF said it was nothing to do with them in any way what so ever. They have no agents or partners selling this stuff. The French can be sneaky like this, Mrs Q gets what looks like a bill arrive from time to time but in actual fact its some form of insurance for burst pipes and plumbing leaks. Some less aware people may think its a bill and pay it.

[crossy67]

How would you get on with insurance if, for instance there were a heavy hail storm than smashed all your panels?

[GordonS]

We're having PV panels fitted in a few weeks to our house in the UK. Its been an exhausting exercise as it is clear a lot of double glazing / home improvement companies have got into a business that is actually quite technical. Luckily there is some data about from domestic installations that have been up and running in various parts of the UK and, generally, owners are finding annualised savings at, or slightly better than the (official Government calculation method)  forecast. The RICS report mentioned earlier in this thread is well out of date - both in terms of the technology and the financial inducements - and the payback period is more like 7-8 years currently in the UK taking into account a 43.3p Feed in Tariff (FIT) for everything generated, assumed use of half the generated power in the property (thereby reduced electricity bills) and assumed 50% exported at 3p. As the FIT will reduce next Spring now is the time to go for it in the UK I believe.

As we have a South facing barn roof in France doing nothing it begs the question whether a solar PV system could earn its keep there. Has anyone got the full picture in France?  From the little I can glean on the subject it looks like the French limit is 3kW (against 4kW in the UK) and the FIT has just been reduced by 20%. I'm unclear whether one needs to be a French taxpayer, which I'm not. Also I've heard that the 'tax subsidised' installations were artificially hiked in price anyway so the contractor got the benefit.

Seems a few forum members are getting systems. What have you found out? Please keep the rest of us informed.

[Rob Roy]

We had a call today from EDF (so they said) asking if we are interested in this; they claimed it would not cost us anything for installation (yeh, right!). We had to be under 68 years old, home owners and not to have claimed any tax credits. I agreed we would talk to the technical guy, who will be ringing us within the next few days and if we are still interested then he'll make an appointment to come and see us (probably more likely to check if the house is suitable).

We are not convinced yet either way, but thought we'd see what they say.

[confused of chalus]

Rob Roy - sounds like like the story our guy told. If he gets back to you could I ask you to share your experience please!

Kathy

[GordonS]

Sounds like France is like the UK where there is 'Rent a Roof' where a company installs, ostensibly FOC, the PV Panels and take the lucrative Feed in Tariff. The householder get free electricity from the panels and maybe a small export tariff. General view is steer clear as there are likely to be issues. For starters income from saving / exporting electricity is not much, your insurer may not want to insure you, what happens if you want to move? Better way is to buy the panels and get the lucrative Feed in tariff as well.

[confused of chalus]

Sorry Gordon, dont quite understand. Surely EDF are not going to give us the feed in tariff from a DIY installation?

[Gardian]

We're inundated with calls from people who are "Partenaires d'EDF". Depending on my state of grumpiness at that particular moment in time, I either say "****", "No thanks", or just put the phone down for 5 mins or so. As Mrs G says, these people on the other end of the phone are simply trying to earn a crust by getting leads, so I shouldn't be so nasty.[blink] The cynic in me says that the more people ringing, the less there is in it for me.

Back to the point: I wouldn't be disinterested in learning more about the pro's & con's, but what I'd really like is for somebody to mail out a seriously professional pack of literature. Just something that would give me a start on the possible cost / benefit situation here locally. Mega more expensive than cold calls though.

This whole field strikes me as being a bit like double-glazed windows 30 years ago: pubescent.