Exchange rate for 2008 tax return

[Hester]

I have always used the figure given by an English written newspaper to calculate the exchange rate to complete my annual tax return.  However, although their tax guidance notes are given as usual in this month's paper, this year there is no exchange rate guidance without obtaining a supplement from them via the internet.

I would be grateful if anyone who has already accessed this information could post it on the forum.  Thanks Hester. 

[cooperlola]

This subject has already come up and will be discussed until the cows come home.  You'll see what I mean if you read this recent thread:

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1616707/ShowPost.aspx

do a search and you'll find lots more.  There is a difinitive answer but everybody ignores it as the law is too complicated for most people to adhere to : the rate used should be the one on the day that the money was received by you.

EDIT : Sorry Hester, especially as you don't post much here - that reply does sound really grumpy!  It's just that, as you will see, every argument known to man comes up in a fight to defend the various ways in which people work out the exchange rate for their tax returns - in some case using a sort of "pick and mix" system!  In reality, I know of nobody who has been done because they used the wrong rate but my own advice would be at least to be sure it is acceptable to your own tax office, and to get it in writing if you possibly can - so that you can defend your position should you be audited at a later date. [:)]

2nd edit : Ooo, and I see Cat's found a few more threads for you to read.  See what I mean.....[blink]

[gosub]

Have a look on this link:  http://www.annett-consultancy.com/French_2008_conversion_rates.html

[Cat]

This gets discussed/disputed at great length every year, here are a few threads from last year about it.

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1524991/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1235750/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1211089/ShowPost.aspx

 

[krusty]

Hester , if the paper you are referring to is The Connexion , the reason you could not find the rate in the April edition is because they printed it in the March issue .

 And the figure for 2008 is £1=1.25968e.

[Hester]

Thank you.  Looks like I should have bought last month's newspaper as from one of Krusty's postings I see that the paper published a guidance rate for 2008 in their March edition. Will check out the threads and links further. Cooperlola, no you could never sound grumpy, I was very grateful for what you did in your campaign on French Health Issues. Regards Hester.

Edit: just talking about you Krusty!

[Complikate]

Its very interesting to try and work out what is going on this year with the exchange rate. Last year the official rate was released in February. This, as it always does, was released in a Bulletin from the tax office, see http://www.lexisnexis.fr/pdf/DO/BOI_5_F-6-08.pdf. The rate is shown under Royaume Uni and equates to the 1.3636 used last year.

Searching for the same bulletin this year, it is nowhere to be found, so I called the local and then the Paris tax office. Both said that the bulletin is late and has yet to be released, thus there is no rate, but it will be out soon. I commented that the Connexion has the rate and they insisted that this was impossible, since they themeselves have not yet set the rate. It appears that the annett consultancy is the supplier of the information to the Connexion and I have very little confidence in the detail if the tax office is denying the rate has been published.

[mint]

Do you think you could post the rate on here when it is released?  It would help lots of people (me, too, of course) as I am rubbish at ploughing through official sites (and that goes for English as well as French ones)![:(]

[Complikate]

No problem, as soon as I know more I will put it here first. Incidentally, the issue is that the rate used is normally as of 31st December and this is the time when huge fluctuations in the currency market began. The week before this, as we know, the pound fell almost 20 cents, thus the French do not like the idea of using this rate and want to find a way to get their pound of flesh from us, which is taking time!

 

Kate 

[Clair]

[quote user="Complikate"]... the French do not like the idea of using this rate and want to find a way to get their pound of flesh from us [/quote]

Writing as a French person, it makes no odds to me, but then again, I don't work for the French tax authorities.

It sometimes looks like the British look for a way of avoiding paying their due...

How do you feel about the generalisation? [:@]

[Complikate]

[quote user="Clair"][quote user="Complikate"]... the French do not like the idea of using this rate and want to find a way to get their pound of flesh from us [/quote]
Writing as a French person, it makes no odds to me, but then again, I don't work for the French tax authorities.


It sometimes looks like the British look for a way of avoiding paying their due...
How do you feel about the generalisation? [:@]
[/quote]

Sadly I would say that this is a highly accurate generalisation and I'm ashamed to say so, thus its reasonable that the fisc want to make sure they do.

[Clair]

[quote user="Complikate"]Sadly I would say that this is a highly accurate generalisation and I'm ashamed to say so, thus its reasonable that the fisc want to make sure they do.[/quote]

So, according to your statement, the French, all of them, fell that way... Astounding!

[cooperlola]

Sorry, anyway, but this is not what the law states.  Look at S/D's post in the thread I quoted much earlier.  It's the rate when we receive the money.  Use that and you are legal.  No right-thinking person of any nationality can argue with sticking to the letter (as opposed to the imagined thinking behind) the law.

I concur with Sweet 17 - it will be interesting to see this so called "official" rate when it's published.  Not that I will use it myself - I noted the rate at midnight on each pay day (when the credit is received in my UK account) and worked each one out on the day I was paid.  All I have to do now is add all 13 payments up and bung them in the right box.  Job done.  Easy-peasy.  Don't know what all the fuss is about....[Www]

[Complikate]

I think we are at cross purposes. Your quote was "It sometimes looks like the British look for a way of avoiding paying their due..."

I agreed with this comment, as I do believe that there are some Brits who do avoid paying their due, so my response was "Sadly I would say that this is a highly accurate generalisation ...", thus this comment is in reference to Brits and is my sentiment. This was in reply to your question "How do you feel about the generalisation?" Thus you asked the question and I answered it, I thought it was clear.

As to what French people believe, I could not imagine, though I could ask the person I'm married to who is French, but they are only one person, so hardly a thorough survey, though my other half is somewhat touchy!

Anyway, for those that care (getting back on topic), when I get the (confirmed) exchange rate I will put it here.

Kate

 

[Clair]

[quote user="Complikate"]As to what French people believe, I could not imagine...[/quote]

Yet you seem certain enough to state that "the French ... want to find a

way to get their pound of flesh from us..." when I believe you possibly mean the French tax authorities.

[Complikate]

[quote user="cooperlola"]Sorry, anyway, but this is not what the law states.  Look at S/D's post in the thread I quoted much earlier.  It's the rate when we receive the money.  Use that and you are legal.  No right-thinking person of any nationality can argue with sticking to the letter (as opposed to the imagined thinking behind) the law.

I concur with Sweet 17 - it will be interesting to see this so called "official" rate when it's published.  Not that I will use it myself - I noted the rate at midnight on each pay day (when the credit is received in my UK account) and worked each one out on the day I was paid.  All I have to do now is add all 13 payments up and bung them in the right box.  Job done.  Easy-peasy.  Don't know what all the fuss is about....[Www]
[/quote]

Indeed you are right cooperlola, if you are "paid" into your French bank account, however, NOT if you are transferring to you French account from a UK account. If, for example, you have your pension paid directly to your French bank account, then you can add up what you receive in the year in the currency you receive it, i.e. the euro, so no exchange rate is required, since the income has been recived in euros. If the same pension was paid into a UK account in Sterling and the money was subsequently  transferred into France, the rate you transfer it at is not considered and you must use the rate set by the French fisc. If you only have pension income that is paid directly into your French account this exchange rate information will not be significant for you. If you transfer money from the UK then  it is very important. 

Kate

[Complikate]

[quote user="Clair"][quote user="Complikate"]As to what French people believe, I could not imagine...[/quote]
Yet you seem certain enough to state that "the French ... want to find a way to get their pound of flesh from us..." when I believe you possibly mean the French tax authorities.
[/quote]

Oh Clair Clair Clair, this is just the great British sense of humour (well, or at least mine at any rate!) Anyway my follow up comment was "its reasonable that the fisc want to make sure they do" (as in get what they are due), so it was obviously not a serious comment. I am not exactly a Francophobe, I am married, as I said, to a French person, my son is half French and I live in France. However, if my humour is off the mark and caused you offence I am sorry for the comment and retract it forthwith, though I hope this does not preclude me from having a sense of humour on future posts.

[Antonia]

I'm somewhat loathed to wade into this subject when there are people on the forum far more knowlegable than me but my understanding is that the "rate" given by the french authorities refers to those people who pay ISF and therefore have to calculate their total worth on the 31st of December.

Before filling on our first return we paid a visit to our local tax authorities and were told to use the exchange rate applicable on each day we received funds (income) in the UK. Not when we remitted it into France.

[Complikate]

[quote user="Antonia"]I'm somewhat loathed to wade into this subject when there are people on the forum far more knowlegable than me but my understanding is that the "rate" given by the french authorities refers to those people who pay ISF and therefore have to calculate their total worth on the 31st of December.
Before filling on our first return we paid a visit to our local tax authorities and were told to use the exchange rate applicable on each day we received funds (income) in the UK. Not when we remitted it into France.
[/quote]

Yes, there is a rate for ISF and it may be different or the same as the rate for income tax. As for using the exchange rate when you received the funds into a UK account, thats a new one for me and I have heard many variations now. There are many local tax offices in France, each with their own view and it depends who you talk to, however, the official line of the Paris tax office is the best guide I think. I have even had people who have been to the tax office and been sent away telling them they don't need to pay tax in France, just pay it in England, so there is no accounting for the knowledge of all staff in all offices (note to Clair: this is not an attempt to insult French tax office workers, most are very competent and very helpful so don't go there please.)

Kate

[allanb]

[quote user="cooperlola"]Sorry, anyway, but this is not what the law states.  Look at S/D's post in the thread I quoted much earlier.  It's the rate when we receive the money.  Use that and you are legal.[/quote]The link quoted by Kate refers to a kind of "average", calculated as the mean of the beginning and ending rates.  But if you read it carefully it says that this is acceptable, for the sake of simplification - not that it's compulsory. 

Cooperlola's method is closer to the letter of the law.

Just out of curiosity, though, how do you find the rate at midnight?  If I were a nitpicker - which is of course unthinkable - I would point out that the law specifies the rate "in Paris".  I shouldn't think many FX dealers work in Paris at midnight.

I have a vision of Cooperlola sitting up every night with a pot of coffee and a laptop, waiting for the clock to strike twelve...

[allanb]

[quote user="Complikate"]As for using the exchange rate when you received the funds into a UK account, thats a new one for me and I have heard many variations now.[/quote]Well, that is in fact what the law says, except that of course it doesn't specify the UK - it's the same rule wherever the money is received, if it's received outside France.

In the law, there's no variation.  What we're discussing is variations accepted or tolerated by tax inspectors. 

[woolybanana]

Last year, my tax office refused to accept a monthly exchange rate calculation for monthly investment income as they only recognize annual payments so I had to use their rate of 31th December, which had been fixed by Paris.

[Graham & Brenda]

If you want a monthly rate you could do worse than get it from the Banque de France here

(link repaired by a mod)

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Last year, my tax office refused to accept a monthly exchange rate calculation for monthly investment income as they only recognize annual payments so I had to use their rate of 31th December, which had been fixed by Paris.[/quote]

You pay tax WB?  I thought you had all the pickle millions stashed away in a banana republic[:D][:P].

 Coops and Allen are spot on about the rate to use,  its really not hard to note the rate that you got is it?  If anyone who gets regular income rrom the UK wants to use the Connexions figure go ahead, I know who will pay more tax and its not us who will use the actual rate received.[:-))]

[mint]

Oh Lord, this discussion is as bad as last year's which I remember with clarity.

As a not very numerate person, I asked my local tax office and the Dragon Lady told me what rate to use and so I did, making a note of the date I had my conversation with said Dragon (er.......I mean said Lady) and she must have been the one going through our papers or something but nowt was said and all got accepted.

Seeing that it was our first tax return and I'd filled it in entirely using information posted here on this very forum, I felt both elated and humbled at the time.

If this year goes as well, I shall be a very happy bunny indeed.