property prices in france 2009

[woody234]

I understand the property prices in the UK are starting to go up, will the property prices in france go up soon, because on the TV news France, Germany and Japan was officially out of reccesion and the UK and USA and China will be out soon

[Anton Redman]

It depends where you are in France. Outside of the major cities there is a good supply of building land. Costs to buy and sell are relatively a large percentage of price in France. So in general house prices did not move up as far or as fast in France nor have they come down much.

[Sprogster]

In rural areas popular mainly with Brit buyers, the housing market is unlikely to improve until the £ recovers and that could take some time.

At the peak of the £ against the euro, Brit buyers made up the majority of French housing transactions in some places and therefore their retreat is having a major impact.

In these rural areas there is limited interest from French buyers because of limited employment opportunities, and other countries like Belgium and the Netherlands are very small so the numbers of potential buyers are much lower. Besides they tend to prefer Southern France.

[NormanH]

You could consult this site which gives estimations of the values in specific locations.

It is based on Notaires' figures.

http://www.immoprix.com/

The Notaires' own site wth some useful information in English  is at

 http://www.immobilier.notaires.fr/jahia/

[Braco]

Don’t buy the property prices are on the rise in the UK nonsense just yet. The market has changed fundamentally from the previous years. A substantial deposit is now required, stringent earnings requirements are in place, and low valuations by surveyors are now the norm.

 

The market has shrunk (sales volume and values) and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

 

The next few interest rate rises will further deflate this bubble.

[AnOther]

I think the sole reason that some UK prices have risen, and we're talking here for the most part fractions of a percentage point 1% against a drop of up to 30% or more in some cases don't forget, is that cash rich buyers have sensed the bottom of the market and have the confidence to come in and buy up bargains. There is also an undermarket of 'accidental landlord' properties (can't sell so rented) lurking in the wings for signs of a recovery to be put back on the market which can only hold back prices.

Until the first time buyers return though, which with the onerous deposit requirements and once more sensible and affordable income multipliers ain't going to be any time soon, the market will remain moribund. It's reckoned by many that it is going to take at least 5 years for prices to return to their pre 2007 levels.

By and large I think it's true to say that the French market has not been hit to anything like the same extent as that in UK hence any recovery will be equally modest. What bargains may be about will in many cases be forced or distressed sales by expats but unfortunately for a variety of reasons many of these properties will not appeal to French buyers unless the price is a complete steal.

I can understand a keen interest in house prices if living in UK and looking to sell, perhaps to downsize for retirement or move abroad or if ones pension were tied to property, but now settled in France personally I really don't care much what happens to the value of mine, it's paid for and is our home not an investment [:)]

[andyh4]

I agree totally with the last sentiment Earnie.

 

I think anyone (except perhaps the real professionals) who buys property in France as a get rich quick investment should instead be thinking of investing in a series of sessions with their psychiatrist.  [I]  It just isn't a market that works (worked) like the UK, except for perhaps a short golden period from 2001 to 2005/6 - and the dates will be slightly diffeent depending on region.  That golden period was fuelled almost exclusively by foreign buyers wanting to get into the market for a variety of reasons - all of which - as far as I can see have evapourated.

These range from concealling black money before the onset of the Euro,

disposing of large bonuses into tangible assets,

"Other side of the fence is greener and I can turn my hand at anything and become a French builder" types (predicated on this is a bouyant house market - probably full of ex-pats speaking the same language)

downsizing (or even upgrading) and retiring on the considerable profits of the sale of the previous property,

and indeed a few who did actually do the buy cheap, restore quickly and sell at a profit - but only because the other factors were in play.

[Dog]

UK is in deep deep trouble they think they have a W shaped recesssion - in my opinion it's more a WM_-- shaped one.

Things look a bit better at the moment with trillions being pumped in - it's all gonna hit the fan after the elections and the suckers have to pay for it and the ridiculously expensive Olympics.

House prices in UK meed to fall 25% more at least - the Geddes Act must be brought in with swingeing cuts across the entire civil service.

 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

I've been strongly taken aback by the change in house prices in this area. A couple of years ago I think I would have laughed at the idea that Brits (particularly) and other foreign buyers could have such an impact in such relatively small numbers. But we're looking around for a friend who wants a bolthole (three + beds, not a fixer-upper but not a newbuild, managable garden, pretty location with a couple of shops in cycling distance) for her and her family and with a budget of €280k she is spoilt for choice. Two years ago when she looked with the same budget there was practically nothing in her price range and what there was was complete crap.

[Scooby]

I work for a bank that set up a subsidiary entity to purchase it's repossessed properties that would otherwise have been sold at auction to third parties at knock down prices.  This subsidiary entity has always bid on the basis of third party valuations.  Over the last year or so the company has purchased approximately 50% of the properties it has bid for.  In recent months this figure has dropped to around 25% as more people are prepared to take a punt and offer over the expected value suggesting the market, at least here in the UK, is turning.  (The company has bought approaching £900m worth residential properties across the UK in the last 12 months - so the figures are probably representative).   Nevertheless, we expect to see repossessions increasing as the impact of the recession on unemployment lags considerably.

Btw - surprised what you say about the prices two years ago - we bought 3 (and a bit) years ago - a 5 BR 3bath house with tower (250m2) in Dordogne in reasonable nick for 252k euros (£168k).

[Dog]

[quote user="Scooby"]I work for a bank that set up a subsidiary entity to purchase it's repossessed properties that would otherwise have been sold at auction to third parties at knock down prices.  This subsidiary entity has always bid on the basis of third party valuations.  Over the last year or so the company has purchased approximately 50% of the properties it has bid for.  In recent months this figure has dropped to around 25% as more people are prepared to take a punt and offer over the expected value suggesting the market, at least here in the UK, is turning.  (The company has bought approaching £900m worth residential properties across the UK in the last 12 months - so the figures are probably representative).   Nevertheless, we expect to see repossessions increasing as the impact of the recession on unemployment lags considerably.
[/quote]

What an incredible admission - exactly what the banks did in similar ways after the last recession.

Totally without an ounce of integrity. 

Banks dangle cheap money to the market - they overlend to the mesmorised sheeplike punters, the bank then pulls the carpet  and the bank buys back assets from borrowers left high and dry at forced sale prices.

This sort of action gives capitalism a bad name. It makes me sick they use my money for this disgusting type of profit making. I have no wish to make money from money but the banks create a society where it is impossible to keep your cash under the bed.

I would be glad if the bank involved in this type of activity caught a big cold - but they will expect the sheep to supply hankies and a remedy.

 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Btw - surprised what you say about the prices two years ago - we bought

3 (and a bit) years ago - a 5 BR 3bath house with tower (250m2) in

Dordogne in reasonable nick for 252k euros (£168k).

I know - it's up and down like a bloody roller coaster. Stuff has started moving again - friend of ours is an agent and has seen a big pick-up in transactions in recent months, but it's very much a matter of French buyers. Brits here are selling (well, trying to - a lot of the stuff on offer doesn't appeal to the French buyers for one reason or another including one place which is kitted out with UK three-pin plug sockets (why? Surely changing the plugs is easier!)) but there's not a lot of interest from overseas.

[mint]

We know of 6 couples who have sold within the last year, year and a half, the most recent couple sold last week and they have all more than recouped their money.

Exchange rate does mean that they could accept 30% less and still make a profit.

Anyone wishing to head back to the UK?  Now's the time.

Me, I have been looking at some properties at very interesting prices being sold by Brits.

[Braco]

Scooby

Just out of interest is the driver to set a floor on prices to stop them falling further or a long term property investment?

[Scooby]

[quote user="Dog"]

[quote user="Scooby"]I work for a bank that set up a subsidiary entity to purchase it's repossessed properties that would otherwise have been sold at auction to third parties at knock down prices.  This subsidiary entity has always bid on the basis of third party valuations.  Over the last year or so the company has purchased approximately 50% of the properties it has bid for.  In recent months this figure has dropped to around 25% as more people are prepared to take a punt and offer over the expected value suggesting the market, at least here in the UK, is turning.  (The company has bought approaching £900m worth residential properties across the UK in the last 12 months - so the figures are probably representative).   Nevertheless, we expect to see repossessions increasing as the impact of the recession on unemployment lags considerably.

[/quote]

What an incredible admission - exactly what the banks did in similar ways after the last recession.

Totally without an ounce of integrity. 

Banks dangle cheap money to the market - they overlend to the mesmorised sheeplike punters, the bank then pulls the carpet  and the bank buys back assets from borrowers left high and dry at forced sale prices.

This sort of action gives capitalism a bad name. It makes me sick they use my money for this disgusting type of profit making. I have no wish to make money from money but the banks create a society where it is impossible to keep your cash under the bed.

I would be glad if the bank involved in this type of activity caught a big cold - but they will expect the sheep to supply hankies and a remedy.

 

[/quote]

I think you need to reread what I wrote Dog.  The properties are being bought at third party valuations, and they are frequently rented back to the mortgagee so that the mortgagee is not made homeless.  Buying the properties reduces the loss to the bank and stops interest accruing on the outstanding mortgage - i.e. stops the debt mounting up for the borrower.  Everyone wins.  As an aside banks are governed by the TCF rules so cannot buy at a price that isn't fair nor before every step is taken to avoid a repossession.

[Scooby]

[quote user="Braco"]Scooby

Just out of interest is the driver to set a floor on prices to stop them falling further or a long term property investment?[/quote]

To minimise mortgage losses.  There is no intention to hold the properties long term and the rental income barely covers the costs.  If a property goes into possession it has to be vacated by the mortgagee.  However, until it is sold and the debt is cleared, the mortgage is still outstanding and interest is accruing.  Add the fact that a significant proportion of empty repossessed properties are trashed (so reducing their eventual resale price) the action taken is in everyone's interest - borrower included. In fact it can only help house prices to stabilise.

[Dog]

[quote user="Scooby"][quote user="Dog"]

[quote user="Scooby"]I work for a bank that set up a subsidiary entity to purchase it's repossessed properties that would otherwise have been sold at auction to third parties at knock down prices.  This subsidiary entity has always bid on the basis of third party valuations.  Over the last year or so the company has purchased approximately 50% of the properties it has bid for.  In recent months this figure has dropped to around 25% as more people are prepared to take a punt and offer over the expected value suggesting the market, at least here in the UK, is turning.  (The company has bought approaching £900m worth residential properties across the UK in the last 12 months - so the figures are probably representative).   Nevertheless, we expect to see repossessions increasing as the impact of the recession on unemployment lags considerably.
[/quote]

What an incredible admission - exactly what the banks did in similar ways after the last recession.

Totally without an ounce of integrity. 

Banks dangle cheap money to the market - they overlend to the mesmorised sheeplike punters, the bank then pulls the carpet  and the bank buys back assets from borrowers left high and dry at forced sale prices.

This sort of action gives capitalism a bad name. It makes me sick they use my money for this disgusting type of profit making. I have no wish to make money from money but the banks create a society where it is impossible to keep your cash under the bed.

I would be glad if the bank involved in this type of activity caught a big cold - but they will expect the sheep to supply hankies and a remedy.

 

[/quote]

I think you need to reread what I wrote Dog.  The properties are being bought at third party valuations, and they are frequently rented back to the mortgagee so that the mortgagee is not made homeless.  Buying the properties reduces the loss to the bank and stops interest accruing on the outstanding mortgage - i.e. stops the debt mounting up for the borrower.  Everyone wins.  As an aside banks are governed by the TCF rules so cannot buy at a price that isn't fair nor before every step is taken to avoid a repossession.


[/quote]

 

I read it well. Buying at a third party valuation might fool some people into validating your position as as a benign arm of a bank. In reality valuers will tell you what you want if you pay them.

All that is happening is that the bank snaps up underpriced properties that the current mortgage holders cannot raise funds to keep.

I have never gone bust in business or ever owed money - probably because I see through such sugary words.

I love the bit about everyone wins as the only winner is the bank!

I will check out TCF rules but I think if it was public knowledge that banks where using money that was pumped into the system by taxpayers to buy up forced sales for profit they would not be too happy.

I well remember the last recession where banks profited by using inside knowledge to enable the purchase of substantial properties through the manipulation of credit and forclosure.

 

 

[Scooby]

Think what you will Dog - I think your posts just demonstrate your lack of intelligence.  The properties are bought at auction, the third party valuation simply sets our maximum bid.

Just to add - our bank has received no government support - in fact we have contributed substantial millions under the FSCS to support other banks (which HMG has claimed credit for!)

[Dog]

I am willing to take an IQ test - I would never question your lack of aptitude. 

You have now given me a clue to which bank you mention.

 It doesn't change the fact that maybe the bank is only in it for a quick buck at the expense of people that are in an unfortunate position and the business you mention probably gets given inside information on fire sales within the banks customers.

Hiding behind lawyers and using badly written codes of conducts doesn't make it moral, decent or wholesome.

 

[Scooby]

Dog, you are clearly trying to establish which bank I work for which, for obvious reasons, I cannot disclose.  I posted on this thread to give some encouragement to those with homes in the UK that the market is turning.  You are welcome to stew in your bitter juices on the wrongs, as you perceive them, of my employer.  All I can say is that your presumptions are very wrong.

[Dog]

I have no interest in your employment or the bank you work for - I have however worked out which one it is some posts ago. I have not asked or never would which bank you work for and will not disclose which of the major banks it is.

My juices are not bitter as I have never fell for the tricks of the bankers or their associated companies. I would prefer to borrow money from the devil if I had to.

You have a vested interest in making the statements you have on behalf of a money making enterprise, you presume I am very wrong - perhaps it should be presumed an IQ and reality check would be in order.

Please point me to where I can read the TCF rules on the web?

[Scooby]

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/Doing/Regulated/tcf/index.shtml

I have no vested interest - I have more integrity than to work for an organisation whose principles I do not support.

[LEO]

Do I need an IQ test to comment on property prices, in France

[Dog]

[quote user="Scooby"]http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/Doing/Regulated/tcf/index.shtml

I have no vested interest - I have more integrity than to work for an organisation whose principles I do not support.
[/quote]

It is obvious you support the principles of the organisation that you work for and that you have a vested interest in it and your pay check.

The FSA principles look great! -  please tell me how many people have the resources to take up the contravention of these guidelines especially after the rug has been pulled?

 

 

[Braco]

Scooby

Thanks for the info. It makes perfect sense to manage this down turn. I only hope that the lessons have finely been learnt. When we purchased our first home many years ago 35% deposits were the norm. The housing bubble just created the illusion of wealth. I for one will be more than happy to see house prices fall and stay low for the benefit of the younger generations.