1eyedjack Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Hi, could someone please show me a breakdown of a simple tax calculation based on the facts below? I am familiar with the UK system, just not French. Hopefully these are all the facts needed:Widowed lady born Jan 1945, no dependants or other household members, British citizen resident in France (and only in France).Tax year 2015.3 Income sources all arise in UK, but in Euros , gross amount to:UK state pension E15729UK works pension E27940UK furnished residential property letting E18419Please ignore double tax credit relief for this purpose.Thanks. I am interested in a breakdown between Income Tax and Social taxes, and available exemptions, including a breakdown between tax rate bands.Thanks for any help and by all means let me know if there is something obviously relevant that I may have missed. And sorry for the lack of paragraph breaks. Can't seem to insert any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathar Tours Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 The official tax calculator for 2015 can be found using the link below.http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/dgi/public/popup?typePage=cpr02&docOid=documentstandard_705If your French is not up to it then use the Chrome browser which has built in translation.Answer the questions in the right boxes and you get the amount due at the end. It is anonymous so you don't have to give your details. It is worth printing out at the end so you can work out where to put the amounts on your real tax return when it arrives. At your age you would have given your E121/S1 to CPAM so no social payment there. The old CSG tax will apply at 15.5% but you can claim that back (all but 2.5%). You won't be able to after 2015 because CSG has been scraped (good news) and has been replaced with another tax (bad news) which is roughly (in English) a Citizen Tax on everyone living in France and strangely works out roughly to the same rate as CSG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 What was the nature of the "UK Works Pension"? By that I mean was it for a Government or local Government body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 Hi thanks for these will take a lookThe works pension was not a government org. just a normal employer executive pension scheme. Purely out of interest, what difference does it make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I worry sometimes when I see people putting lots of very personal information on a public forum, I do understand wanting help and advice, but surely with the amounts of money being mentioned on this thread professional advice would be preferable? By the way welcome to the forum , but please remember that while I'm confident that contributors to this forum are honest, there are an awful lot of scammers out there who trawl the internet, so please take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsnips Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 [quote user="1eyedjack"]Hi, could someone please show me a breakdown of a simple tax calculation based on the facts below? I am familiar with the UK system, just not French. Hopefully these are all the facts needed:Widowed lady born Jan 1945, no dependants or other household members, British citizen resident in France (and only in France).Tax year 2015.3 Income sources all arise in UK, but in Euros , gross amount to:UK state pension E15729UK works pension E27940UK furnished residential property letting E18419Please ignore double tax credit relief for this purpose.Thanks. I am interested in a breakdown between Income Tax and Social taxes, and available exemptions, including a breakdown between tax rate bands.Thanks for any help and by all means let me know if there is something obviously relevant that I may have missed. And sorry for the lack of paragraph breaks. Can't seem to insert any.[/quote]Hi, Pensions 43669 - (10% -limited to max.3707) = 39962 +18419 =58381...... notional tax due (58381 x 0.30) -5639 = 11875€ * This notional tax is reduced by the credit - 11875 x 18419/ 58381 =3747....Tax due = 11875 - 3747 =8128€ As an S1 holder there should be no social charges on the pensions , and the rent is exempt under the treaty. Social charges may have been charged on investment income , but for 2015 income you can claim reimbursement.Does this help? *calculated using the "le Particulier " ready reckoner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 You are all very helpful, thank you.I agree with the point of getting a professional. This is more for ready reckoner/budgeting purposes than an expectation of getting it down to the centime.As to the personal info, I challenge anyone to identify the taxpayer from this, but in general I agree with the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 1eyedjack, if you see a large barrel on wheels coming up your drive pulled by a couple of sweating and swearing slaves, it is Norman who is an expert and finding eligible widows who might maintain him in the manner to which he thinks he is accoustomed.Go for it Norman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 @ Cathar ToursThanks for the link. Yup my French is not really up to it. Unfortunately when you get as far as the actual calculators, Chrome stops translating the pages. At least on my machine.It wasn't clear to me whether I could use the simplified model or have to use the complete one. The blurb suggests simplified is OK if the only income is pensions and property. But the Complete one if you have investments in overseas territories. As the property is overseas I tend to favour the complete one. Which should always work anyway, if I can get around the language barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 I am interested to know whether the method of calculating the taxable amount of rental income is similar in France to in the UK. My figure is calculated on UK principles, but before deducting a 10% allowance for "wear and tear of furniture" as allowed against furnished accommodation (at least up to 2015-16, shortly to be replaced). I found a link here which suggests a general deduction of 30% of the gross rents as an alternative to actual costs. Is that still accurate?http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/top-tips/It suggests that the 30% rises to 71% in the case of "accredited furnished accommodation". Would it have to be in France to get "accreditation"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 [quote user="1eyedjack"]You are all very helpful, thank you.I agree with the point of getting a professional. This is more for ready reckoner/budgeting purposes than an expectation of getting it down to the centime.As to the personal info, I challenge anyone to identify the taxpayer from this, but in general I agree with the point.[/quote] OK sorry for being a worry guts, I'm sure your right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 The reason for asking whether it was a Govt pension is that such income is treated as taxable in the UK & whilst there is an offset in one's French assessment, it still has to be declared and will attract some liability.As to your other question re offsets / concessions, you may take it that a lady with a gross income of €60k-ish will receive no taxation reductions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 @ GardianThanks for the further input.I was not sure whether the 30%/71% abatement for unfurnished/furnished lettings was intended to be a means tested relief or simply a flat rate standard method of arriving at taxable income from the source. The link that I referred to seemed to indicate that it was an alternative to claiming actual expenses as a deduction.I agree that obviously this individual would not qualify for any means tested reliefs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathar Tours Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 The abatement is for properties in France. Usually for those that have a B&B or Gites (self catering), that type of thing. It is a flat rate and not means tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Correct, you should declare any UK rental income elsewhere on the tax return. But it is your first time, a complicated series of forms in a foreign language.................................................... Sometimes it pays not to ask the horses mouth, but even they are just as likely to make a mistake in your favour, I tell them about the odd one to show bonne foi but not all of them, that would be doing their job for them [:D] When the £ equalled €1.25 the ispecteur told me to divide my UK earnings in £s by 1.25 to arrive at the figure in €uros [:-))] Again another simple mistake easy enough for anyone to make..........................................[;-)] I did correct him on that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinabee Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 The guide to completing the tax forms covering most situations is available herehttp://services.completefrance.com/forums/completefrance-forums/cs/forums/1196188/ShowPost.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathar Tours Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I had a look at that link an I would not use the information in it because it was last updated mid 2011 and a lot has changed since then including the links given to forms on the impots website that no longer exist. It should either be updated or removed. There is loads of information, in English, that is up to date on the web if you go looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinabee Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Hopefully, it will be updated, as it is a really useful, easy to follow guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 It was certainly the most reliable guide I have seen amid all the rubbish often spouted on 'Anglo' Forums...We also had developed our own 'ready reckoner' but that didn't seem to get much of a reaction so I for one have stopped updating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Norman, maybe we haven't said how much we have appreciated your ready reckoner and I'm sure there are many of us. Do please update it as it's soooooo very useful. If you should update it for us, will I be able to use it on my new imac?Thanks, Mrs KG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 [quote user="Mrs KG"]Norman, maybe we haven't said how much we have appreciated your ready reckoner and I'm sure there are many of us. Do please update it as it's soooooo very useful. If you should update it for us, will I be able to use it on my new imac?Thanks, Mrs KG[/quote]It wasn't 'mine' although I contributed...there was tinabee, Gardian and John Brown also involved.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Well thank you to you all and please keep up the good work it's a godsend to those of us who struggle to keep up!Regards, Mrs KG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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