Gluestick Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 [quote]Nevertheless, from a moral point of view I continue to hold the view that the true criminal remains the one who commits the crime and that they should be held to account - not the victim.[/quote]Of course I agree completely, JE.I have a problem, however, in the second bit: how on earth does "Organised" society, (I won't say "Civilised" 'cos it isn't, really!) hold to account those in other nation states where law and order is a nice idea only!The last time this was tried in any meaningful way, was the post WW II Nuremburg War Trials. Whilst a few leading figures were hanged, with the exception of Hess, most were fairly quickly released and because of typical political expediency, many were welcomed into other societies, as they had specific technology values or intelligence skills or whatever!Indeed the West German Intelligence Service, the Bundesnachrichtendienst, was based around the Gehlen Bureau: and its head, Reinhard Gehlen finished up working for CIA! Despite the fact that technically, Gehlen was a war criminal!Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 [quote user="Deimos"]These days seems that a child falls of a swing and grazeshis/her knee and there are calls to have the playground shut down, calls forthe person in charge of whoever owns the playground (e.g. the local mayor) toresign. And after the governmentenquiry has reported and every playground in the country now has to conform toregulations requiring to child be able to reach a anywhere more than 6 inchesabove ground level … . Thing is that itis actually important that the child falls of a swing occasionally – as theylearn that it hurts and what they do wrong, etc. Unfortunate but important. What is even worse is that very very occasionally the accident will bemore serious (e.g. broken leg), and exceptionally rarely somebody might die.Life is about risk. For each child seriously injured in a playground there will be many morekilled on the roads, or through many other stupid needless activities. I think that society needs to accept that unfortunateas it is, accidents will happen and doing everything possible to prevent thoseaccidents can sometimes be counter productive.[/quote]IanAbsoultely, see my post regarding climbing trees in I'm so sad ...... Nuff said, I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Blimey, Gluey, if we could solve that, we'd have world peace, wouldn't we!The world has a moral struggle here, because we want everybody to be "organised" (I love that - perfect word), but we also don't want to be seen to be interfering with other cultures, or passing judgement upon them for beliefs and mindsets which we do not share. History is littered with the fallout from countries who take the moral highground and go in (often with guns blazing, but not always) to "orgainise" nations we believe are acting wrongly. Most of us in our society would agree that murder is wrong, same for rape, theft and a number of other crimes. But how we go about convincing others of this is the tough one - because the moment we do this, so often we begin to commit the same crimes ourselves, in the name of our own moral code. When you sort it out, let me know...For myself, I think the best one can do is to stick to one's own broad moral code, and to speak out for it when one can. If you change the mindset of one person in your lifetime, or influence your children and those around you to be sensible and caring members of society, that is probably the best that any idividual can ever do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Once again, JE, we are in total agreement.I am often (Invariably?) accused of a mindset that replicates the Extreme Right Wing Tory Hang 'em high and if that doesn't work, beat the $h1t out of 'em, brigade; which I'm not.That said, I do believe that rapists, child abuser and granny bashers - i.e. those who exploit the simple reality that they are far stronger and thus in a physically dominant position - ought properly to be hung from the important bits for a few weeks!Simultaneously, however, I am becoming a wee bit sick and tired of bleating parents sobbing their crimpalene hearts out when their kid goes missing, mainly because they didn't look after them properly in the first case............................................. or their current live-in-lover, straight out of jug, of course for six episodes of GBH, has "out of the blue" raped and dismembered their "luvverly little darling Chantelle.................................".Don't get me wrong: I've worked with and for children's charities and aid groups and love the little darlings to bits: and if I had my way, I would take many kids away from their idiot parents (for the kid's own good and safety and sanity) at birth..........................Dear me! Friday and Gluey is having one of his Fascist turns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tressy Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 [quote user="Gluestick"]Dear me! Friday and Gluey is having one of his Fascist turns![/quote]Make that Fascist Snobby turns, Gluey. [Www]Who is JE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Why snobby? Please elucidate!JE? Ah, that would be telling![;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tressy Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 [quote user="Gluestick"]Why snobby? Please elucidate![/quote]It was your little 'pop' at working class speech patterns and child naming that bugged me, but having read back through the thread that was no worse than the snide remarks made by others about this particular mothers lifestyle (re the number of children she has, how they're schooled and where they live etc) so you're not alone.[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgina Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 [quote user="Tressy"][quote user="Gluestick"] Why snobby? Please elucidate![/quote]It was your little 'pop' at working class speech patterns and child naming that bugged me, but having read back through the thread that was no worse than the snide remarks made by others about this particular mothers lifestyle (re the number of children she has, how they're schooled and where they live etc) so you're not alone.[;-)][/quote] Oh really Tress, why do you think programmes like Little Britain are so funny then and Vicky Pollard ...do you write them letters of complaint?? Lighten up.[:D] Georgina (reformed working class just like Mr Two Jags)[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 [quote user="Tressy"]It was your little 'pop' at working class speech patterns and child naming that bugged me, but having read back through the thread that was no worse than the snide remarks made by others about this particular mothers lifestyle (re the number of children she has, how they're schooled and where they live etc) so you're not alone.[;-)] [/quote]Just like this story, thankfully now at an end:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/missing-children-and-the-media-the-wrong-kind-of-family-795007.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tressy Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 [quote user="Georgina"]Tress, why do you think programmes like Little Britain are so funny then and Vicky Pollard ...[:D][/quote]Erm...I don't think they're funny. Perhaps I would if I'd ever seen either of them.[:)][:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I'm Spartacus.[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 [quote user="Tressy"][quote user="Gluestick"] Why snobby? Please elucidate![/quote]It was your little 'pop' at working class speech patterns and child naming that bugged me, but having read back through the thread that was no worse than the snide remarks made by others about this particular mothers lifestyle (re the number of children she has, how they're schooled and where they live etc) so you're not alone.[;-)][/quote]Tressy, I fear you are reading meanings into my post that weren't there!I would suggest that in today's media-inspired moronic euphoria, speech mannerisms and child naming are more likely to be a result of media speak and crass Americanisms - worse since the current presidential battle has started - and persons besotted with Celebdom and/or pretension, than class.Since you are a Newbie to this form, I do warn you that, like myself, there are innumerable cynics and P*** takers here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tressy Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 [quote user="Gluestick"]...Since you are a Newbie to this form, I do warn you that, like myself, there are innumerable cynics and P*** takers here![/quote] I can't believe you don't recognise me. [:D] Thanks for the 'welcome'/warning, but I was formerly Tresco, so I'm very familiar wth your posting style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Sorry Tres.In which case I do find your comment rather strange.....................But each to his and her own!BTW, I've only just discovered that Tresco is an island in the Scillies!All too much for me............[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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