Land Rover

[powerdesal]

My wife is normally a very sensible person.........She has now set her sights on us buying a Land Rover Freelander!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why , I dont know.

Every alternative I come up with gets turned down in favour of.................................a Freelander.

She has even been approaching total strangers in supermarket car parks asking them what they think of their Freelander. It is obviously the caravan towing capabilty that interests her.

So, having accepted defeat (sort of) I am now researching Freelanders. Anyone got one? What do you think of it?

We have had Land Rover products in the past and have been less than impressed with the need for continuous spannering, I thought we had learnt but obviously not.   [:(]

[Gluestick]

Steve:

A have a very close friend and client whose business is about recovery trucks travelling all over Europe, collecting broken down and damaged caravans for various insurance underwriter's travel indemnity.

He informed me quite some time ago that the Freelander and the Discovery have the highest ratio of suddenly turning right over when towing 'vans of all!

He has picked up the bits of any number!

Even with a stabiliser fitted.

This happened to other close friends, with their almost new luxury 'van only a few hours after leaving the ferry in France.

No other vehicle involved, and both towcar and 'van were complete write offs.

He also runs a fleet of self-drive 4 X 4s and bought a top of the range Landrover which cost bundles.

On its very first hire, the hydraulic pump died on the loading ramp at Southampton Docks!

He's now back with Nissan Terranos and their replacement and Mitsibushi.

 

[Anton Redman]

Arrange a test drive on tarmac somewhere with both hills and sharp corners. Also get her to ride in the back during this test drive as well.

Have a long hard look at the reliability tables - JD Powers and Which

[Iceni]

If it's your wife's money, she can spend it on a Land Rover if she wishes but remember that it will be YOUR fault when it breaks down.

If it's your money, buy something Japanese, you know it makes sense.

John

[AnOther]

Would this be a new one or "pre owned" as I believe later ones were a tad less unreliable than earlier models, then again reliability is probably not paramount in your mind when you're upside down in a muddy field.....[:'(]

[powerdesal]

It would be a couple or three years old (let someone else take the primary depreciation hit) and its OUR money. It will still be my fault of course.

I've wobbled around various bits of desert and mountain in sundry Range Rovers and never yet turned one over - close on occasions, I have even competed in off road events with a series 3.

I have also spent too many hours with spanners in hand on various Land Rover types, although to be fair, it was my business some years ago before I saw the light.

I amm surprised that Discos have roll over problems when towing, they are basically a Range Rover with a different body shell. The Freelander is rated at much lower towing weight (1800 / 2000kg) and the name Land Rover could possibly fool some people into thinking that weight and loading plan dont matter. There are are also many examples of holiday vans being towed with a serious nose-up attitude due to lack of drop plate. Any instability on the move then escalates into a tail wag and ultimately a roll.

Our present 4 x 4 is an Isuzu Trooper, but a V6 petrol is not the sort of motor I would like in Europe.

edit. Some people also seem to think that a stabiliser is a licence to ignore all the common sense aspects of loading.

[cooperlola]

Buy an X-Trail.

EDIT: Seriously. I have just got rid of my 3rd Landy - the ones upon which their reputation is built - the Defender/110 et al.  If a soft-roader is what you're after, I think Landrover lag way behind the Japs.  And most of the motoring press agrees.

[Gluestick]

[quote]are are also many examples of holiday vans being towed with a serious nose-up attitude due to lack of drop plate. Any instability on the move then escalates into a tail wag and ultimately a roll.[/quote]

Totally agree with that, Steve.

Few people actually bother to set the trailed load: Tow Car ride height correctly.

I used to tow a Don Parker 4 wheel car transporter with an F II single seater and loads of spares and stuff all over, behind a Droop Snoot Firenza at Made In England. Well, that's what it said on the speedo!

Totally stable and could brake smoothly from 80 MPH + (No cameras in those far off halcyon days).

I also agree with JE (Cooperlola). Both Terranos and X Trails are rugged sensible, reliable vehicles.

 

[AnOther]

IMO the current Land Rovers/Freelanders have become as much a fashion statement as a practical off-roader, there are far better alternatives.

Re trailer balancing, having towed my fully laden 1700kg box trailer down to 46 on maybe 6 or 7 occasions I can attest to how crucial it is to get both the weight distribution and nose weight right. It makes the difference between a nerve wracking 14 hours and a relaxed faster journey.

I would always do a test run on the local dual carriageway in UK prior to setting off on the journey proper. Conveniently there was a long gentle hill which I could go down at a fair lick but on a trailing throttle, the worst case if the trailer is going to misbehave. The first couple of runs saw me reloading the trailer until I got the hang of it [blink]

To get back to you Steve, what exactly are wifey's reasons for lusting after a Freelander I wonder ?

[cooperlola]

[quote user="ErnieY"]To get back to you Steve, what exactly are wifey's reasons for lusting after a Freelander I wonder ?
[/quote]Well, it's not a girly thing.[;-)]

[Gluestick]

[quote]IMO the current Land Rovers/Freelanders have become as much a fashion statement as a practical off-roader, there are far better alternatives.
[/quote]

In my jaundiced eye, Little Ern, with the main exceptions of farmers and those who tow gee gees around, and very few others, ALL 4 X 4s are a fashion statement!

Having towed quite a bit, I only seek two things in the prime mover: weight and sufficient grunt!

Which was why back in the late 60s and early 70s, a Jag 3.8 MK II was a very popular tow vehicle for club racers: weight and lots of grunt!

I did know one rather strange chap who towed his caravan with his new Rolls Silver Shadow.

He told about the time he asked his Rolls dealer for a tow bar: they looked totally askance and clammed up. So he contacted the factory and by dint of perserverence found that there was indeed a Rolls official towbar listed.

Back to the dealers and quoted the part number.

"Oh no, Sir!" said the dealers, "That's not for caravans etc: that's a Yacht Hook, Sir!"

[:D]

[powerdesal]

I believe that I've been successful in changing her mind. (That must be a first!!!!)

I cant see the need for a 4x4 apart from muddy camp sites  and / or snow. I quite like the idea of a diesel vectra estate, boring maybe but full of safety kit and economical with it. I have always been a Vauxhall fan.

I wouldn't be too happy about a Nissan as I believe spares and service are a problem in mainland Europe. Mitsubishi may be the same, I dont know.

One alternative vehicle is a Jeep, the Cherokee, not the Grand Cherokee. I will have to research their reliability record though. Maybe Isuzu diesel is a possibility also.

Ernie, I think my wife actually liked the shape of the Freelander, rather than anything else.

[cooperlola]

Nissan are 49% owned by Renault.  Spares a doddle in Europe as both companies share a parts bin (you gather I own one? - not a 4x4 I might add).  All the diesel engines are French and servicing is cheap and easy.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="ErnieY"]To get back to you Steve, what exactly are wifey's reasons for lusting after a Freelander I wonder ?

[/quote]Well, it's not a girly thing.[;-)][/quote]

My wife doesn't do "girly" stuff. She does things like attempting a ceasarian on a dead ewe, with a kitchen knife, in the hope of saving the unborn lambs - it didn't work, the lambs were already dead.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="cooperlola"]Nissan are 49% owned by Renault.  Spares a doddle in Europe as both companies share a parts bin (you gather I own one? - not a 4x4 I might add).  All the diesel engines are French and servicing is cheap and easy.[/quote]

Interesting facts, thanks Coop.

My comment about Nissan was really based on the problems we had finding spares for a bluebird when it lived in Germany. It was a few years ago so things have obviously changed.

How are Mitsubishi in Europe?

[cooperlola]

Can't help you there I'm afraid!  I can't say I see very many, though, which may be a tip in itself...

But it was one of the reasons I mentioned Nissan as to my mind you get Jap build quality and French diesel technology - both of which are worth having imo.  Mine needs a service every 2 years and after 70,000 ks has cost me 450€ in total plus 4 new boots.  It's got 10k to go before it needs another service.  As I'm just about to set off for the Charente, I'd better not tell you how reliable it is.....[Www]

EDIT : Having said that, if you're moving away from the 4x4 idea, then I'd incline towards a German myself.  Audi or BMW spring to mind.  And there are always the VAG offshoots.  Yer average cab driver doesn't buy a Skoda Octavia because he likes its looks.

Whatever, as far as diesels are concerned, I'd be wary of what's under the bonnet.  Start with French and German for sure, as they have the longest history in the field (that's what would put me off Jeep and Isuzu - although the Mitsubishi diesels are rated).

[Quillan]

Had both a Cherokee and Grand Cherokee. The latter was a good car but both are very juicy. The Cherokee gave me and the wife back ache. My old Disco (on a 51 plate) was a very good car and had no problems that ever required a tool kit.

You might look at either the Audi 'Allroad" or the Volvo which has been raved about by both 5th Gear and Top Gear. You are looking at about £20k though for a 2005 plate.

[AnOther]

Glad you mentioned VAG offshoots Coops becuase I'm very impressed and pleased with my Skoda diesel estate, a Golf in almost everything except name yet actually bigger, somewhere between a Golf and Passat. The money's been saved on trim and niceties.

Slight downside is the scarcity of dedicated Skoda dealers in France but of course due to it's parentage for most things a VW garage will serve.

To their own loss there are still people who wouldn't be seen dead in one though, I don't know if Steve's wifey falls into said category, DIY ceasarians on dead ewes might suggest not [:D]

There's even a a 4WD version too !

[Gluestick]

Prior to the take over of Skoda by VAG, they enjoyed an unsurpassed record in International rallying, Group One (basically unmodified manufacturer's cars).

Thus the ill-earned reputation for unrealiability in the UK in particular, was factually untrue: and mainly die to dealerships being taken on by secondhand car traders with little if any engineering back up and little mandatory factory insistence on dealer investment in spares, service training and etc.

Whilst certainly "Agricultural", compared to Western European products, they were rugged and used to being driven over very poor roads and hostile snow and ice conditions.

Now, little to chose between VW, Audi (VW with "False moustache and glasses") and SEAT. Most share identical floor pans and drive train components: it's only the extreme exterior shapes and badges which vary.

Badge engineering at its finest.

 

[powerdesal]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

To their own loss there are still people who wouldn't be seen dead in one though, I don't know if Steve's wifey falls into said category, DIY ceasarians on dead ewes might suggest not [:D]

[/quote]

Definitely not a car snob, or a snob of any other description, in fact the epitome of practicality.

I guess Skoda are another target to google.

DIY ceasarians are just one of her "skills", she also builds a mean stone wall   [:D]

[AnOther]

Check out eBay.fr whilst you're at it, usually a few for sale there.

I bought mine from a dealer in London, it was an import from Belgium and still on Belgian plates and I paid perhaps a 1k premium for it being LHD but even so it was still less than the equivalent car would have cost in France.

[powerdesal]

ErnieY,

I have just read about 25 owners reviews of Skoda Superb without a single dissenting voice, apart from headlamp bulb failures everyone was "no problem - no problem - no problem"   Impressive.

I take it that you tow your 1700kg trailor with your Skoda, how do you find it? Especially as the Superb model towing limit is 1600kg [:P]

It does look as if the Superb is a very nice motor.

[powerdesal]

A very quick look at Ebay.fr shows silly prices for the Skoda Superb, some verging on the ridiculous. LHD is not worth that sort of premium.

[Bob T]

I don't tow a caravan but had a new Discovery, and a new Range Rover 2.5 DHSE in the UK. When I decided that we needed a 4X4 here I stayed away from the Land Rovers because the Disco is a rough old beast and the Range Rover was thirsty and under powered even when chipped.

I ended up buying a Hyundai Tucson. It is much better equipped, more powerful and better to drive than the Range Rover was, but it is smaller. It also does around 44 mpg compared to the RR which was 28!

Hyundai is offering a 6 year unlimited mileage warranty in the UK which does give a bit of confidence. If the Tucson is too small then the Santa Fe is bigger, but as there are only two of us and sometimes a microlight on a trailer, it suits us well.

[AnOther]

[quote user="powerdesal"]A very quick look at Ebay.fr shows silly prices for the Skoda Superb, some verging on the ridiculous. LHD is not worth that sort of premium.

[/quote]You're not really looking for the Superb but Ambiente or Elegance.

Elegance = Ambiente with all extras.