Is the Forum becoming unbalanced away from French topics?

[Clair]

Better than being in a bunch of yellow spotty ones... [:P]

[mint]

[quote user="Catalpa"]Those of you who are French and lived in the UK - if I remember correctly (or even at all [:P]) you moved there in your 20s? I believe one is less "wedded" to country of birth at that time. Providing one is happy - not homesick - the focus at that age is on where you are, not where you've come from.

Contrarily, many people on this forum will have spent the first 40 / 50 / 60 years in the UK before moving to France. That's a lot of life and history to lose interest in. If someone has been interested in British politics (for eg) for the past 30 years, they're not going to turn that interest off - or switch it to French politics - over night. And why should they? Which isn't to say some émigrés won't immediately lose interest in the UK but I suspect they are in the minority.

I'm not arguing that the Little Englander approach is right at all (good grief, no!) but continued interest in the country in which people have spent half their lives - and from where the funds for their life in France will originate - is hardly surprising... and really rather balanced, in my view.

For us specifically, as time progresses and aspects of current French life are experienced during our here, events like the Sarkosy presidency become part of "my" life in France because I experienced them. I didn't vote in the presidential elections, obviously, but I was part of the local discussions, I went to the count... it felt - and of course is - very relevant to me. He's my president... and whereas Tony Blair felt like my prime minister, Gordon Brown does not. I used to get friends to bring me copies of the weekend newspapers from England... now when they do I find I don't read them, or only cursorily. We get le Figaro by mail on Friday and Saturday and I get my fix of news and analysis from that - and from the website during the week. And I love Mme Figaro. [8-|]

What I can certainly do without on all the fora, not just this one, are the links to "deteriorating Britain", to "this could only happen in Britain" Daily Mail type negative comment. I detest those. But of course, no one forces me to click... or to read the ensuing thread. [;-)]


[/quote]

Catalpa, much of your post resonates with me.  But then, you won't be surprised at that as I find you an eminently sensible person (no not currying favour either).

It's so right that if, like Clair, you leave your country of origin before you are 20, then necessarily what I would call your socially conscious and political life would have been lived in your country of choice.

As you've said, Catalpa, a lot of us are now well into our grown-up life (into his dotage in my OH's case but he'd kill me if he knew I was saying that) and we've come with some "baggage".  So, baggage gets lugged on board and you ditch some or most of it as and when you feel ready to do so.

Personally speaking, I've been here nearly 2 years now and it's only this winter that I have realised how much I miss the UK (and it wasn't even my country of birth).  Well, perhaps not the UK as such but things like libraries, concerts, live music, the WI (not that I belonged, but just the thought of it)! 

Come the summer, I know I shall desperately miss the proms and the various music festivals in the West Country that made my life so interesting and worthwhile when I was still living in the UK.

Do I care the same way about France?  Well, I might, given time, but at the moment, if I'm really truthful, M Sarkozy is still that little French president and Carla is still that Italian girl who "talks" (can't call it singing) to music and France and the French are still a whole new undiscovered continent.

Lambast me if you want to but that is my perspective.  And yes, I do still "look in" on the British news but I don't care for the present Labour government despite having been a Labour supporter all my grown-up life.

The point is there is no well demarcated "dividing line"...............you care about somethings more than others, and at some time more than at others.  Right at this moment, my OH is watching the rugby but then he is Welsh and I feel I have to be tolerant at times like  these!  Let the poor old boy enjoy himself, why not?

[woolybanana]

You have never tried a yellow, spotted man? You innocent, a good banana would change your life.[;-)]

[mint]

Agreed, Wools, but it's not exactly easy finding a good banana, is it?

[5-element]

[quote user="Catalpa"]Those of you who are French and lived in the UK - if I remember correctly (or even at all [:P]) you moved there in your 20s? I believe one is less "wedded" to country of birth at that time. Providing one is happy - not homesick - the focus at that age is on where you are, not where you've come from.

Contrarily, many people on this forum will have spent the first 40 / 50 / 60 years in the UK before moving to France. That's a lot of life and history to lose interest in. If someone has been interested in British politics (for eg) for the past 30 years, they're not going to turn that interest off - or switch it to French politics - over night. And why should they? Which isn't to say some émigrés won't immediately lose interest in the UK but I suspect they are in the minority.

I'm not arguing that the Little Englander approach is right at all (good grief, no!) but continued interest in the country in which people have spent half their lives - and from where the funds for their life in France will originate - is hardly surprising... and really rather balanced, in my view.

. [;-)]


[/quote]

You are absolutely correct, Catalpa - I did move to England at 21, and was pretty clueless about everything then anyway! At that age, it was just a great big adventure, like re-creating oneself, and most of the excitement was to just throw myself in a new life. There truly is no comparison between arriving in a country at 20 and at 60.

I realise too,  how much harder it must be to learn a new language at 60 than it is at 20, and how much more set in their ways everybody is as one gets older. 

I often wonder how I would manage, if I move again. For example, to Portugal.  Would I  try to become acquainted with the customs, the culture, and  as much of the language as I can?  Difficult to say, I might just become a Franco-British expat who doesn't want to run into overload by seeking too much information about her new country.

I am glad you used the word "balanced" - it just has to be the best way. Maybe we get a warped perspective on a forum, because it sometimes just does not feel that the balance is so great.

[Patf]

From my own point of view, being in France full time at the moment, I think Norman is right. But theoretically this forum is a part of the Living France magazine network, and that is published and sold in the UK so you expect discussion of french topics, when they do occur, to be perhaps at a pretty basic level as ?BJSLIV commented.

For example I did read about Sarkozy's speech about the economy but didn't absorb much of it as it seemed to need a solid background of knowledge about the french economy to fully understand the import of what he said.

My own special interest is the french legal system, and how it differs from the british system. I pick up bits here and there, and wonder if people would be interested just to read summaries of these examples. eg a new law came into force last June regarding regulations on owning a chien méchant.

[Catalpa]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

Catalpa, much of your post resonates with me.  But then, you won't be surprised at that as I find you an eminently sensible person...

[/quote]

Now Sweets, you promised me you were going to get counselling for that... [;-)][:D]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

Do I care the same way about France?  Well, I might, given time, but at

the moment, if I'm really truthful, M Sarkozy is still that little

French president and Carla is still that Italian girl who "talks"

(can't call it singing) to music and France and the French are still a

whole new undiscovered continent. Lambast me if you want to but that is my perspective...

[/quote]

You've been here 2 years, we've been here nearly 5. I think it is time-related - and needs a desire to "understand" France, of course. But I've never had any impression you don't have that desire. And anyway, I don't think anyone should be lambasted for their day-to-day cultural choices - though I know you weren't addressing that remark specifically to me.

One should lambast people (or at least consider it) for their attitudes to racism, prejudice of any kind, cruelty of any kind... but lambasting people because in my opinion they aren't becoming "French enough" doesn't even make my "To Be Lambasted" list.

[quote user="5-element"]

I often wonder how I would manage, if I move

again. For example, to Portugal.  Would I  try to become acquainted

with the customs, the culture, and  as much of the language as I can? 

Difficult to say, I might just become a Franco-British expat who

doesn't want to run into overload by seeking too much information about

her new country.

[/quote]

Perhaps. But I doubt it. I think you'd be just as interested in

understanding, comparing and contrasting three cultures as two. Okay,

being older it might take longer for the new culture to start making

sense particularly if you're retired in the new culture rather than (as

someone said earlier) working within it, but if someone has previously been

interested in "the way people live" and the cultural underpinnings of

what makes them tick, I'm sure it would continue in another

country. Isn't it a desire to participate in a culture?

[NormanH]

[quote user="Catalpa"]but lambasting people because in my opinion they aren't becoming "French enough" doesn't even make my "To Be Lambasted" list.

[/quote]

I think that is a misrepresentation of a certain point of view.

The criticism is not that people are not "French enough", which would be ridiculous given that those people are not French.

The criticism is that they  don't seem to be interested in essential aspects of their adopted country.

For example on the threads I quoted in my original post there was a blacklist of Hospitals which have inadequate provision against MRSA, a thread showing which bank accounts were best/worst value, and an account of a measure proposed by President Sarkozy to abolish the 'taxe profesionelle' which could lead to massive rises in the Taxe d'Habition paid by anybody with a house in France which is furnished even as a holiday home.

These issues seem to me to be of interest to any body with a property in France, or who spends time here.

So the criticism is not that people are not "French enough", but they are adopting an Ostich attitude.

[woolybanana]

Well, rich second home owners set against jobs? Seems reasonable.

[Catalpa]

You weren't lambasting were you, Norman?

[quote user="NormanH"]

The criticism is that they  don't seem to be interested in essential aspects of their adopted country.

[/quote]

That's where you and I differ. I don't generally pass judgement - criticise - people on the level of interest they display in their adopted country based only on whether or not they are motivated to comment on a topic.

[woolybanana]

Totally not, I want him to engage

[Catalpa]

If you're answering me, Wooly, I think you misinterpreted the first line of my post.

[mint]

Catalpa, it is time-related, as you say, but only to a point.

There will be those who'd have lived here yonks and still stay ignorant and then there'll be relative newcomers who have just got stuck in and done their utmost to "participate, integrate", whatever choice of word you prefer.

As it's St Valentine's Day, I think I will make so bold as to compare it to a relationship with a person.  To begin with, you're blind to their faults (or at least are prepared to overlook them), then you might start to look for all the warts and finally, you might, just might, decide that you love them anyway, warts and all.

But, you'd still need to get to know the person really well, that is to say, as well as you are able (which might be quite well or not well at all, but that's a different story).

Norman, in a way, I think that perhaps you are requiring too much of people too soon.  There IS a time element involved (as Catalpa has just explained).  In the same way as you could not put an old head on young shoulders, so you need to make allowances for people getting to learn the language, the customs, the politics, the culture, the rest................

I realise we don't all have the time and that we proceed at different rates.  You've heard of child prodigies and the ones that failed their 11-plus and then turned out to be late developers and so on.

One last comment in response to Catalpa's remarks to 5-element.  I suspect you're right, Catalpa, there are always people who are just more "interested" than others.  The ones with the curiosity and the desire to learn will carry on trying and the ones that are apathetic will carry on not bothering.

I don't think any of it matters in the end except to the people involved.  So, Norman, no need to worry or fret about the people not responding to your posts on essential aspects of living in France.  They'll make do all right according to their own lights.

[woolybanana]

At this tyme of nyte, I cann even reed Capalta!!!

[mint]

Well, how many've you had so far?

[Catalpa]

Norman, what I can't remember is how long you've lived in France. I have in my mind that it's 15 years or more, but I may be mixing you up with someone else. [8-)]

[Dog]

Don't want to rain on anyones parade but St Valentine was kicked out in the 1960's.

[cooperlola2]

Somewhat baffled by the OP's angst about this item. There are, according to my quick count, more than 50 subject headings on the forum, almost all of them explicitly related to France in some way. Then there is Other Topics, which enables people to discuss the price of peas in Tesco, the US Presidential Election, or, as is apparently quite often the case, the view from Uranus. As far as I can see, the Trades Descriptions Act would not be contravened by any or all of these subjects, or virtually any other for that matter, being raised under Other Topics.

If the OP, supported by several real French people, cannot see why more time isn't spent in debating the subtler nuances of French current affairs and public life, perhaps that's because some of us aren't aware of them, don't understand them, and, until they actually emerge as new legislation applicable to us, do not feel affected by them, either. In my UK commuter days, I read a broadsheet on the train to Town. On arriving home 12 hours later, I tried to catch Channel 4 News. Now I'm retired, and living abroad, and hardly ever watch tv in my own home, I'll let others do the worrying, thanks.

[Clair]

From my point of view, it's not so much about "debating the subtler nuances of French current affairs and public life", but more about keeping yourself informed.

There are many who do not read or watch French news and are generally unaware of things until they get caught out. They then complain loudly and non-stop that they knew nothing about it.

I post about tax rebates, health news, elections and other practical info and I do not necessarily expect a follow-up debate or a discussion.

I do not post about daily French politics (for example) because I don't think there is a lot of interest for such topics here.

[Frenchie]

[quote user="Clair"] They then complain loudly and non-stop that they knew nothing about it.
[/quote]

 

Unfortunately, I must admit this is also the feeling I have.

A bit like my ex husband , who doesn't vote but complains about politics non stop....

[Russethouse]

 I often read posts about varying aspects of French life, tax, health care, banking etc. I do not see any great need to comment or debate most of them.

I think Norman may be taking lack of replies as a marker for lack of interest - that may not necessarily be the case.

[woolybanana]

Ditto RH, I try to get through the main Brit, Belgian and French newspapers, though it is a bit cursory, plus the French telly of course. But do manage to keep up to date largely with what interests me. Not sure I really wanna discuss it though: eg Olivier Besancenot, the new LePen?

[Scooby]

Time (or lack of it!) is a big issue with us.  We both work full-time and I work very long hours (often 60-70 hours a week) plus we have three teenage children and their schedules keep us pretty busy too.  Hence we have to focus our news reading to the most pertinent matters to us as a family and, spending most of our time in the UK, this means the UK news.  Time on here is usually 'escape time'. Maybe when we have retired...

[Frederick]

Was Le Pen a communist Wooly? Olivier Besancenot i should imagine has the party card in his pocket...cant see him giving it up even if he does get his new party off the ground

[woolybanana]

No, but Le Pen appealed to the disgruntled element of the population as does the latest little phenomenon.