Quillan Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote user="canasta"]I just joined this forum so that I could comment on this post. I can barely believe what I'm reading and, before I go any further, Chiefluvvie has my full support! I guess she's probably thrown in the towel by now in utter disbelief. What a bizzare and scary world some of you live in - full of plot, sub plot, manipulation, big brother et al. Quite sad where safety is concerned - it's mostly just common sense - nothing more sinister than that. As for the data, statistics and 'proof' that some of you require - IF you really need it, go find it yourself - although I suspect it won't change your point of view anyway! Madness.....and I hope I'm never stuck inside of a metal tube, hurtling down a runway at 150mph, with some of you..... canasta[/quote]Quite clearly you have not read the posts because if you have you would see that some of us have taken the time to search for these stats and simply can't find them which is why we have asked (more than once) for some pointers. Sadly there has been no such information forthcoming. If one was sceptical one might think they don't exist.I would have thought the civil avation industry would be very keen to have them in the public domain and to make them easy to find to help them to back up their safety record with the public.So, by the tone of your post, you know where they are so can you give us a URL so we can have a look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote user="Quillan"]Quite clearly you have not read the posts because if you have you would see that some of us have taken the time to search for these stats and simply can't find them which is why we have asked (more than once) for some pointers. Sadly there has been no such information forthcoming. If one was sceptical one might think they don't exist.I would have thought the civil avation industry would be very keen to have them in the public domain and to make them easy to find to help them to back up their safety record with the public.So, by the tone of your post, you know where they are so can you give us a URL so we can have a look?[/quote]Second that.As so much of both your and Chiefluvvies argument seems to center on it what is the problem in coughing it up for us all to see, teling us "find it for yourself" is nothing but a complete cop out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Whilst chef-fluffy is visiting the stats department, I wonder if s-he could check on frequency of maintenance in China for BA & AF planes.Just for my piece of mind.RyanAir dont do it!http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/830200-air-france-a340-volait-trentaine-vis-manquantes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canasta Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Oh dear - what boringly predictable and blinkered responses. I kinda knew they were coming! Looks like you missed the point completely. No wonder CL gave up! canasta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 Mobile fones and I guess Kindles are banned in hospitals too, on the grounds that they interfere with equipment, but this has been challenged as nonsense. The idea is that mobiles particularly were banned so as to force people to use commercial fone lines within the hospital.Are there technical bans on the latest generation of screw free aircraft or is it just older types? I am not talking about short term bans so as to get passengers to watch the H and S demonstrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefluwie Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote user="canasta"]Oh dear - what boringly predictable and blinkered responses. I kinda knew they were coming! Looks like you missed the point completely. No wonder CL gave up! canasta[/quote]I wonder if Canasta & CL are the same person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I just read some of these stories and it all looks pretty random to me ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote user="Chiefluwie"]I wonder if Canasta & CL are the same person?[/quote]Crossed my mind too [:P]I found this: (my bolds)The NTSB concluded that the single most important factor for those surviving the accident was likely the extent to which they took personal responsibility for their own safety; i.e., they had pre-planned their escape, allowing them to react quickly to the emergency.Absolutely correct. Choosing ones seat wisely, knowing exactly where the nearest exit is - and the alternatives - is what I always do and I certainly do not need the crew's perfunctory 'let's get it over with' brief for that.It goes on to say; Competitive passenger behavior was also an unexpected obstacle described by accident survivors Although climbing over seats and pushing may sometimes prove to be necessary actions for emergency egress, conficts typically produced by these actions consume valuable time, demonstrating that uneducated passengers are likely to behave negatively when anxiety and heightened emotion are in control.I would perhaps substitute novice for uneducated but overall this does surprise me as, depending on the urgency of an evacuation, I would have totally EXPECTED it and as I have said, would not hesitate to do it if I felt it necessary for my own survival.There was a TV programme some time ago looking at aircraft evacuation under controlled experimental conditions and initially they were simply trying to measure the time it took for a full evacuation and everybody formed an orderly queue and exited in whatever time it was. They reached a minimum time and could not improve on it. Then they introduced the incentive of a cash reward for the first xx passengers off and it was like literally setting the dummy plane on fire with many of the passengers taking to pushing and climbing over seats just as described. How much more forceful would they have been be if their arses had really been on fire not just chasing a few dollars !The comments about passengers seated in exit rows raises an interesting question which is, should first time or novice passengers be allowed to occupy those seats in the first place?I would argue not and that only those who were frequent and seasoned fliers be allowed to. Airline data already exists to ensure this can take place without anybody even knowing they are being segregated.Finally there is little in the document which suggests that the standard crew brief contributes much to survival. It does say that further education would help but quite how you ensure passenger attention for an extended meaningful briefing when you can hardly get it for 90 seconds I couldn't say.http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medical/oamtechreports/2000s/media/0419.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Hi Folks!I survived the flights to UK and back! I paid full attention to the safety demonstration even though the nearest cabin crew member didn't arrive on post until halfway through. I thought about standing in for her.Anyway, back to the Kindle this time at last. It didn't get scrambled, which I'm sure will disappoint CL; it could have been the answer to her prayers.I've come to the conclusion that the only people who need safety instructions are the aircrew and cabin staff; it's their job and they get paid to look after us! [:D]I'm sorry but I can't take this seriously any longer.Happy reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefluvvie Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Hi Sid et al - just back from Narita and delighted to see things have moved on a pace! :-)Sid - au contraire! I'm really pleased your Kindle didn't get scrambled - I don't go anywhere without mine - use it all over the world and in-flight - love it.Anyway - I don't want you worrying about me in an emergency - I'll be straight down my widow rope!Very surprised no one contacted the CAA or FAA yet !Anyway - just keep listening to those safety briefings - they could save your life.Chiefluvvie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneySuckleDreams Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15932846 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Interesting HSD - but that is an iPod fire not specifically an aircraft issue - by which I mean, had the incident occurred in the Channel Tunnel every reporter would have been talking about a tunnel fire, in the underground, it would have been a tube fire, at home - probably not reported at all until 10000 units had behaved similarly and had been reported on by Which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Actually this is a known problem with IPhones in general, try Googling 'IPhone Fire'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneySuckleDreams Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Is that why people are asked to turn them off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Good point and may be correct in the case of IPhones. If you read through some of the stuff on this there have been several car fires as well when the phone has been left on the car seat. This means it must get very hot when it goes wrong because car seats (just like aircraft seats) are made from very fire retardant material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Sam Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Something which is on the increase ? Perhaps as we rely more and more on portable devices, the problems are coming more to light!Apple issued a recall a month or so ago, regarding a similar risk with early iPod Nano models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefluvvie Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Woops - just been catching up on this thread and noticed that some of you STILL need convincing about the relevance of pre-flight passenger safety briefings.Link below to a long report (91 pages) of a 2006 study commissioned by the Australian Government but involving many national aviation bodies. It's entitled 'Public Attitudes, Perceptions and Behaviours towards Cabin Safety Communications' and is used extensively in current aircrew training - being the most recent major study.The CAA did in fact conduct their own study back in 1992 with Cranfield University entitled - 'CAA Paper 92015 – Passenger Attitudes towards Airline Safety Information and Comprehension of Safety Briefings and Cards'. Sorry but I can't find it on-line and only have my own hard copy - too long to scan! It was written incorporating the learnings from the British Midland Kegworth crash back in 1989.Hope you find it interesting .....I do (!)Must fly.....Chiefluvvie Link to copy:http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/32927/b20040238.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 My problem has always been the first bit - there is a life jacket under my seat, but how on earth do I access it, is there a handle to pull, if so where ? I'm pretty sure I could remember the rest if my mind wasn't worrying about the first step..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefluvvie Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hi Russethouse - it really depends on the aircraft type, cabin and operator - not all lifejackets are stowed under seats - some are stowed above your head and others bedside your seat - but ALL of them are really easy to remove - normally by pulling a tab or pushing a release button.If it's something that worries you, simply take a good look and make sure you locate your lifejacket - wherever it is!Maybe this thread needs a different title ?!Chiefluvvie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 No need to worry about that RH. In the dreadful event, you will have several minutes to be told exactly how to extract the lifevest - compared to a few seconds (maybe 90) to exit the plane - always assuming of course you come down over water and unless you fly transatlantic my guess is most of your journey will be over land anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Oh, and don't forget, only seaplanes land on water. [Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Now I know what to look for I got straight to it.Firstly it is an "advisory" document. Secondly, something I have never seen, is that the crew should also brief handicapped people specifically paying attention to their particular disability.In general the document talks about the many different factors involved in surviving an accident.It's a bit like saying 85% of air crashes are survivable which is true but then you have to look at what the definition of crashes are in relationship to this percentage. Basically most 'crashes' that they talk about are actually on the ground. When you start looking at crashes when the aircraft is in flight the survival rate is much, much lower. We have known from as far back as the late 1950's for instance (through investigation in to the Comet crashes) that a single point lap harness in most cases are as much use as a chocolate teapot. Ask yourself this question, why does a pilot normally have a four point harness (including Airbus pilots - A320, 330, 340 and 380 all use one of the four point Schroth belts) when passengers only get a single point one yet aircrew are statistically least likely to survive a crash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefluvvie Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Ah but, ah but, ah but........Just the kind of response I'd expect from you Quillan - based on your previous comments and 'observations'. You just don't get it do you?LISTEN to safety briefings - they could save your life and possibly someone else's.Chiefluvvie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now