Pommier Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote user="Chancer"] is it beyond the realms of possibility that some of them may have gone willingly with this man, may have even lied about their age?If that were true who would be the victim?[/quote]These were children who were under the age of consent, in the company of a charismatic, powerful older man who certainly ought to have known their ages (and I'm sure he did). It was up to him to act as an adult, not to take advantage of silly, star-struck little girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Quite, and as I was trying to show in my post girls may appear to be asking for it when actually they don't know what they're asking for . That is why the responsibility must be with the adult.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Very honest of you Hoddy, a refreshing view.I agree with the other two comments also, a man can and should say no if he feels that he is taking advantage of someones age, situation, naiveté or their pulsions.I did precisely this for a couple of years with my ex and she was 35 [:-))], bloomin hard work it was too (and painfull but we wont go there) and I can tell you I didnt get any thanks for it either [:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiseau Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I'm with Nectarine. It's unfair to lay the condonement of what is now correctly viewed as sexual harrassment only on the BBC's doorstep. Advertising and other "creative" industries would have been equally guilty in the 1960s and 70s of their male senior staff expecting sexual favours in order to expedite some young female's advancement in the company.Even on a social level, in the 1950s I can remember my sister and me being briefly squeezed in slightly inappropriate ways when kissing male friends of our parents. We didn't like it, but it would never have entered our heads to report it to our parents at the time. But now I look back on it, in today's very different climate we probably would do.Angela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote user="Chancer"]I dont think that there have been any references to "she must have been asking for it" or even anything that could be (mis) construed as such like comments on how a girl or woman dressed.[/quote]It's the mentality not the actual words.Se we are talking about young girls from 11 to 14 (think Jim 'll Fix It etc) not you girls of 16 and above in their first jobs. As 16 is and was the legal age of consent he clearly raped and/or sexually abused some of them. Which ever way you dress it, it is illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 "... when she screamed and complained, she was sent to the school’s isolation unit – effectively a padded cell."http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/tv-and-radio-reviews/9585422/Jimmy-Savile-Exposure-ITV1-review.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I thought it was implicit in my post Q that even at 16 some young girls were too naive to understand the true reality of the situation. Such girls whether legally under or over age are reliant on decent men to behave properly.Incidentally I had four lovely brothers and a super dad. Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]It seems to be being stated as a truism that, if a young girl IS "asking for it" (and a couple of people, at least, on this thread, imply that some of those coming forward must have been) then an older, wiser, more responsible man in a position of power and authority is doing nothing wrong by giving it to them. I am not convinced that in such circumstances the ability - or responsibility - to say "NO" rests entirely with the female. THAT is what I mean by "she was asking for it". Even if that's true, there is no obligation on the part of the man to comply.[/quote]Sorry Betty, you started off well but by the second line you seem to have strayed away to what you thought I had said.[quote user="Théière"]Don't read it too much like that betty as it is a bit of a generalisation, sad to say it doesn't make it right though its the difference between being an adult and knowing the rules and being a teenager and not. I am sure that there were innocent cases but there are girls who not only ask for it but instigate it and that is also a fact.[/quote]I do not condone anything done to minors by adults in that way, it's sickening and disgusting, how old was JS at that time?The BBC had chaperones looking after ALL children on the premises and the instructions were, you don't talk to any of the stars unless they talk to you first so how did a unaccompanied child end up in a dressing room with that man?I agree with Hoddy the responsibility does rest with the adult.I don't want to trivialise what is a serious issue but in Lewisham there is the highest under age birth rate in Europe so some one some where knows what they want. When I lived in my first flat there was a young girl who used to hang around as we worked on cars and bikes who got up to in appropriate touching when we climbed under a car etc. She was 14 and we nearly flipped when we found out, she could have easily passed for 17-18. As Nectarine said 1 in a hundred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Possibly, Theiere, the problem lies not with what I said but with your assumption that I was referring to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 No Betty, I didn't assume it was directed at me but never the less I was, I felt included in the ones that may not whole heartedly agree. There is nothing wrong with that though if we can't discuss it wouldn't be much of a forum.What do you make of thesehttp://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=jim%27ll+fix+it+medal&_frs=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 [quote user="Hoddy"]I thought it was implicit in my post Q that even at 16 some young girls were too naive to understand the true reality of the situation. Such girls whether legally under or over age are reliant on decent men to behave properly. Incidentally I had four lovely brothers and a super dad. Hoddy[/quote]Sorry H but only part of what I posted was in response to your comments, which incidentally as you might of worked out from my previous posts I totally agree with, the rest were general comments about other posters.I am not sure if there is a general assumption amongst some about the age group involved. We are not talking about pubescent girls (14 trying to look 16 or older) but prepubescent girls or to put it in more, and incredibly basic terms, girls with breasts were of no interest to the likes of JS. I am afraid also if you read the statements you will see that chaperone's were not always available or present (what could possibly happen to an 11 year old?) and it has now come to light that at least one chaperon 'groomed' girls for JS. Whilst we all know what should have happened sadly it didn't and the position that JS had within the BBC meant that if he said jump the reply was how high.I would say this however that this is not just the issue of JS but of the internal attitude and policies of the BBC and some of the staff working there at the time. I suppose you could almost use the word conspiracy if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I must admit I am amazed by some of the language used in the last post by a forum moderator. There are ladies taking part in this thread, and I find these type of comments most unsettling and crude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Regretfully and as distasteful as it is you have sometimes to drop down to a level so that people clearly understand what your talking about. We are not talking about girls of 14 or 15 who look like they are 17 and 18 we are talking about children and that is what needs to be understood. These children who are now adults want justice, not from JS because he is dead, but from those who ignored them when they initially complained or told them they were imagining things. However taking your point I have edited one of the words as hopefully people now know exactly the age group we are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I thought the reports were about 14 and 15 year olds, Quillan? That's the age group I've seen mentioned in the reports I've read - though I haven't been reading everything that's come out in the last few days or so..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Some of the first to come forward were from the 'Jim'll Fix It' days and there were a couple who were as young at 11. Hopefully it will all come out and the victims will be able to move on after so many years.As the days move on what is so incredible is who knew what and when and that it was just allowed to continue. There are some claims that even the police where involved in covering up his activities, I mean he actually got to run Broadmore for a short period. I thought it was his gold neck chains and bracelets that rattled as he walked but it appears it was keys to several institutions holding offenders and young girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Just watching a DVD of episodes of Drop The Dead Donkey and one from 1991 in it has:Henry Davenport: I have heard a rather unsettling rumour over lunch at the clubDamien Day: Oh not Jimmy Saville again.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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