EU referendum voting rights will not be extended to all UK citizens living abroad

[Quillan]

EU referendum voting rights will not be extended to all UK citizens living abroad, if you have been away 15 years or more phew I should just make it. I was wondering how they are going to make this work?

[idun]

It is just the same as for UK government elections, one cannot vote after 15 years non residency, so it already works.

[NickP]

As a resident of the UK I'm quite happy about that situation, and before you come out with the old chestnut about paying taxes in the UK, I pay taxes in France and have no vote, but I accept that, as I knew the deal before I invested in France.

[Jazzer]

Can't quite follow the position here. In the Scottish referendum for Independence the following applied:

"Citizens of the Republic of Ireland and other EU countries resident in Scotland may vote."

[NickP]

[quote user="Jazzer"]Can't quite follow the position here. In the Scottish referendum for Independence the following applied:

"Citizens of the Republic of Ireland and other EU countries resident in Scotland may vote."[/quote]

The Scottish referendum rules were set up by the Scottish parliament, and included under 18 voters. Nothing to do with the UK parliament and the citizens of England, Wales or Northern Island at all. This vote is for all of the UK not just Scotland. Our rules not theirs.

[Quillan]

Personally I think it's just a bit to wind people up. I put the Guardian in the same stable as the DM but at different ends.

[andyh4]

NickP wrote:

As a resident of the UK I'm quite happy about that situation, .........

Unquote

Except of course it is not your residency that gives you the right to vote in the referendum. It is your nationality.

Otherwise all of those nasty Polish and Lithuanian workers living in the UK would be allowed to vote.

[NormanH]

[quote user="andyh4"]NickP wrote:

As a resident of the UK I'm quite happy about that situation, .........

Unquote

Except of course it is not your residency that gives you the right to vote in the referendum. It is your nationality.

Otherwise all of those nasty Polish and Lithuanian workers living in the UK would be allowed to vote.[/quote]

Please don't expect accuracy of thought or expression from certain quarters.

[NickP]

[quote user="andyh4"]NickP wrote:

As a resident of the UK I'm quite happy about that situation, .........

Unquote

Except of course it is not your residency that gives you the right to vote in the referendum. It is your nationality.

Otherwise all of those nasty Polish and Lithuanian workers living in the UK would be allowed to vote.[/quote]

I wasn't talking about my right to vote, please pay attention, I was stating my delight that

people who have lived abroad for over 15 years are not allowed to vote. 

I would also ask why you are being racist, as I'm quite happy employing

Polish and Lithuanian workers.

[powerdesal]

The loss of voting rights after 15 years as an expat has been the situation for many years, the possible EU referendum is no different.

[Quillan]

[quote user="powerdesal"]The loss of voting rights after 15 years as an expat has been the situation for many years, the possible EU referendum is no different.[/quote]

Exactly but don't let that get in te way of a good story. Nobody has explained how they know you have been away 15 years?

[ebaynut]

I personally believe that the Scottish people should not be allowed to vote in the EU referendum. Ms Sturgeon has already stated that if the UK as a whole votes to leave, then the Scottish parliament will seek to negotiate a way to stay in.

Well, if they are not going to abide by the result of the UK referendum, then they should not be allowed to participate.

Perhaps if this did happen and Scotland stayed in and England left, maybe we could send all the people who arrive in the UK, (who are not British subjects with HIV and expect the British taxpayer to treat them), over the wall for the Scots to sort out as they seem so pleased for the English to pay.

[YCCMB]

"Who are not British subjects with HIV"

So, you think that only British subjects with HIV should be permitted to vote, eh? That'll be a small ballot.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="Quillan"]

[quote user="powerdesal"]The loss of voting rights after 15 years as an expat has been the situation for many years, the possible EU referendum is no different.[/quote]

Exactly but don't let that get in te way of a good story. Nobody has explained how they know you have been away 15 years?

[/quote]Why should it be difficult. You are only allowed to register as an overseas voter if you were on the register as a resident voter within the last 15 years. I am sure councils keep records so it shouldn't be too difficult to check on your elegibility. Besides I am sure that no member of this forum would contemplate doing anything illegal such as making a false declaration about how long they have been living abroad.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="ebaynut"]I personally believe that the Scottish people should not be allowed to vote in the EU referendum. Ms Sturgeon has already stated that if the UK as a whole votes to leave, then the Scottish parliament will seek to negotiate a way to stay in. Well, if they are not going to abide by the result of the UK referendum, then they should not be allowed to participate. Perhaps if this did happen and Scotland stayed in and England left, maybe we could send all the people who arrive in the UK, (who are not British subjects with HIV and expect the British taxpayer to treat them), over the wall for the Scots to sort out as they seem so pleased for the English to pay.[/quote]Your  apparent xenophobic attitude to the Scots has obviously blinded you to what the SNP have said about the referendum. They have stated that before the UK leaves the EU each part should have voted to leave. They have also said that if the UK as whole votes to leave but Scotland votes to stay then they would seek a new independence referendum if the SNP wins a majority of seats in the 2016 Scottish parliament elections - by no means a certainty given the proportional election system used in those elections.

 

[Quillan]

[quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="Quillan"]

[quote user="powerdesal"]The loss of voting rights after 15 years as an expat has been the situation for many years, the possible EU referendum is no different.[/quote]

Exactly but don't let that get in te way of a good story. Nobody has explained how they know you have been away 15 years?

[/quote]Why should it be difficult. You are only allowed to register as an overseas voter if you were on the register as a resident voter within the last 15 years. I am sure councils keep records so it shouldn't be too difficult to check on your elegibility. Besides I am sure that no member of this forum would contemplate doing anything illegal such as making a false declaration about how long they have been living abroad.[/quote]

Now that is interesting. If I understand you correctly you must be on the electoral register before you leave the UK and then you can say, just as you leave, you are going abroad and I suspect you then give them an address for your postal vote to be sent to. From that time onwards you are classed as an overseas voter and the clock is running for 15 years. If that is correct then most of those comments I have seen in newspapers, forums etc about "right I never bothered before I came to register to vote but I will know" are actually talking rubbish which is what I suspected.

Would I also be right in thinking that if you are on the electoral register where you used to live you can apply to vote under the 15 year rule but that 15 years would be, because you never told them you were leaving, from the last time you actually registered? So that would mean if you registered just prior to 2010 for that election you would be down to only 10 years if you wanted to register as an overseas voter today.

Where I am coming from is those indignant people who are screaming about their rights being removed because they can't get a vote have really contributed to their problem by not using the system properly and now have the audacity to have a right old whinge.

[idun]

In the late 80's, british expats had twenty years of UK general election voting rights when living in France.

That reduced to 15 years, probably about 15 years ago.

How would they know. Well everytime we went to vote, we had to give our former UK address and what date we left. Why would we lie, in our case it would have been easy enough to check up on, we went back to the UK so infrequently as it was a dear do by plane and as all the motor ways were not all in place, an interminable journey.

Is it fair enough, perhaps. I would expect that the policitans believe that those who chose to live in the EU would have a bias that was over and above that of those living in the UK. Whatever, as I always say, no one made anyone leave the UK, so tant pis. Incidentally, I think that IF we had remained in France AND could have voted in this referendum, I imagine I would have voted to pull out.

WHY, because some one on the tv the other day, cannot remember if it was on french or uk telly, but they were saying that the problem was that they had not gone far enough with a united europe and that for some reason, if Brussels ran us all, everything would be better.

[NickP]

[quote user="NormanH"][quote user="andyh4"]NickP wrote:

As a resident of the UK I'm quite happy about that situation, .........

Unquote

Except of course it is not your residency that gives you the right to vote in the referendum. It is your nationality.

Otherwise all of those nasty Polish and Lithuanian workers living in the UK would be allowed to vote.[/quote]

Please don't expect accuracy of thought or expression from certain quarters.

[/quote]

Ah your awake Norman, what happened the bed pan overflowed? By the way I think your comments about Andy are a little harsh; he's trying his best [:D]

[andyh4]

Quote Q

Where I am coming from is those indignant people who are screaming about their rights being removed because they can't get a vote have really contributed to their problem by not using the system properly and now have the audacity to have a right old whinge

UNQUOTE

Q

I have read your post three times and I am still not sure that I understand it, but the best I can come up with is that this is the 2010s equivalent to the naughties "I don't have to declare tax in France since they don't know how long I am here."

Just as we disabused such posters as to how the authorities could indeed estimate when you were in France, the UK authorities can do the same and more to establish you are not in the UK.

The more might include:

If (as we often recommend) you keep a property in the UK and rent it out as a fall back, you will probably have registered as a non-resident landlord. If so they know to the day when you left the UK.

If you have moved a pension out of the UK into a QROPS regime, they know when you left the UK.

If you were paying tax by PAYE, they know when it stopped. They also know that you did not apply for unemployment benefit.

If you were self employed, they know when you stopped declaring your tax and accounts and when you (probably) changed your NI contributions.

A credit check will show when your UK accounts started to become inactive.

If you have a state pension paid into a French account, they know when that started.

In short they know when you left to UK.

And if you look to be put on the electoral register on-line, one of the first questions you are asked is your NI number. Not your name, not your address - not until later. The NI number comes first.

So my advise, if you were suggesting you could try and play fast and lose, don't do it.

EDITED to add.

Salt in the wound is that people currently living in Nicosia, Valetta or Dublin, who have never been to the UK, could now travel to the UK and get put on the register and vote in the referendum. But as a second class British citizen (equivalent in some eyes it seems to a Russian Jew or an Asian Ugandan) I will have no right.

[YCCMB]

I don't believe they will. Unless they get their fingers out and establish residency. Are we looking at the same criteria for residency as for everything else? I think we are.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="andyh4"]to add. Salt in the wound is that people currently living in Nicosia, Valetta or Dublin, who have never been to the UK, could now travel to the UK and get put on the register and vote in the referendum. But as a second class British citizen (equivalent in some eyes it seems to a Russian Jew or an Asian Ugandan) I will have no right.[/quote]Of course if it really bothers you, you could also do the same thing and get a vote. The choice is yours

[andyh4]

That did occur to me but can you imagine Nick P's apoplexy if I came to the UK, got on the register and then returned straight back to France?

[NormanH]

[quote user="powerdesal"]The loss of voting rights after 15 years as an expat has been the situation for many years, the possible EU referendum is no different.[/quote]

I disagree that there is no difference.

Voting for a temporary government is not the same as what amounts to a constitutional change.

There might be an argument for no right to vote on temporary issues, although many other countries wouldn't agree, but it seems an essential part of citizenship  to be able to vote on more permanent issues.

As for Quillan's red herring about 'how do they know' local councils keep updating their lists and know who lives at whic address.

I also had to fill in a tax form (was it 106) when I moved abroad.

[mint]

[quote user="andyh4"]That did occur to me but can you imagine Nick P's apoplexy if I came to the UK, got on the register and then returned straight back to France?[/quote]

Well, andy, you will have to do it without letting Nick P know?[:D]

Unless, of course, you actually do wish he'd have apoplexy?[6]

On a more serious note, what do people think of the question itself?  Should Britain remain etc (can't remember the rest of it, it's soooo memorable!)

[Quillan]

[quote user="NormanH"]As for Quillan's red herring about 'how do they know' local councils keep updating their lists and know who lives at whic address.

I also had to fill in a tax form (was it 106) when I moved abroad.
[/quote]

It wasn't a red herring it was a serious question. I can think of many ways they could do it but how they actually did I didn't know.

When I left the UK 14 years ago I did not have to complete any form at all. I wrote to the, as it was then, Inland Revenue and told them I would be emigrating and gave them the date. I then asked them if I owed any tax as it would be their last oppertunity to get any out of me. They wrote back and said I didn't and said they would put my 'account' on hold until I told them otherwise. If there was at that time a form to complete they certainly never told me or sent me one.