Too poor to stay warm

[idun]

I watched a little of this program on Panorama last night, but it drove me mad.

And it certainly had me thinking about when I was a child.

We only had a gas and electricity meter and they were duly filled with sufficient coins every week when the pay came in. Our gas and electricity never went off.

We had no central heating and during the day and evening, we lived in one very small but well heated room for most of the winter. Nowhere was warm in our house apart from this room. The exceptions to using the real sitting room were if we had guests or for xmas and new year.

There was never ever the suggestion that we slept in the heated room. And we really did have ice on the bedroom windows. We had what we called an eiderdown on top of the bed to finish off so many wool blankets that as a child I could hardly move. Was I cold in bed?......... never. Hot water bottles warming before I got in.

We wore wool jumpers and cardis knitted at home, even had to wear liberty bodices, which I remember being warm.

We always ate well, traditional english food, lots of veg a little meat or fish and taters, always taters. We walked at lot and no child was fat.

I remember James Herriots kids being interviewed and saying that as children when they got out of the bath their father told them to excersize to get warm, jump up and down or some such thing.

And for all the house the house I was brought up in was cold/ice box for the most part, it was not damp, at all. In fact my

friend's mother never moved from the identical house to ours, she too moved in in the early 1950's, and her house is as dry as it always was.

She got central heating about 30 years ago. In her 90's she still is

able, on a very small pension to heat her house.

My Dad moved to

somewhere small eventually and his heating bills were not too bad

considering it was like a green house in there all winter. He too could

afford to pay his heating bills.

I was not a deprived child at all. My life was very normal.

And then life got softer.

And yet, I remember my child hood well, and realise that in spite of being able to pay my bills now, because I can...........  I made sure that this house was well insulated, because it is stupid to pay for heat to escape and it keeps the bills down too.

Still, some on the program had far posher new furniture than I do and I don't dye my hair either.

And heating or eating. I can eat very cheaply, in fact we often do. It is possible, and not rocket science.

So, I suppose I did not get the program last night.

[powerdesal]

idun,

I didn't watch the programme but I can certainly agree with everything you wrote. Your childhood sounds to be a copy of mine.

A coal fire in the sitting room, hot water bottles in bed, ice on the inside of the bedroom windows.

My wife and I had been married for quite a few years before we experienced a house with central heating and even now we have lived in this house for years but this is the first winter that we have had central heating.

I still want a cool bedroom, in fact the bedroom radiator has not been put in service at all.

People are too soft these days.

[NickP]

Due to the age demographic of this forum, I would think most of us would agree with the situations already quoted. Unfortunately the program was a classic case of the BBC left wing bias. On it's web page a comment to raise interest; shouts "government in the year 2000 says it will end fuel poverty by 2016". What it fails to say is that was a Labour Government, you know the one, the one who left a note saying "there's no money left"

Although; I do find the fact that energy companies and landlords being allowed to force some of the  less well off people to use coin meters a disgrace. This system is the most expensive way of buying electricity, I know this for a fact as a couple of years ago for various reasons we rented a furnished apartment and it had the dreaded meter, the one you topped up at a local shop. So the energy co., the landlord and the retailer were all getting a rake off from the profits. OK we could afford it and it was only short term. But for a lower wage earner who may be in a situation where they can only get this type of payment plan, it's a scandal as it means the lower paid are paying the highest price. Time for Corbyn and co. to speak up, trouble is it may come back and bite them on the ar5e, so they'll keep shtum.[:P]

[Doodle]

Ditto, ice on the windows, warm water bottles on the pipes in the bathroom, woolly jumpers and several of them on top of each other. Bedsocks and a wooly hat as I had bronchitis as a child. I used to get sent off with a little round flat metal can to get parafin from the local shop for the little parafin heater that we had in the hallway, and then sent off to the post office to get some 'tanners' for the meters - gosh you've brought back memories and really we were only in this situation because my dad died when I was 10 and so my mum worked nights (SRN) as it paid more and we took in six students as we lived near to a university.

I too watched last night's programme and it amazed me how cold these ladies said they were and IMO not surprising as they didn't look as though they were wearing much and not what I would call warm clothes. I had no sympathy for the lady that was about to get a pay meter installed as she had received several letters from her supplier over 11 months for unpaid bills and not once had she bothered to contact them by phone or letter. Now let's see a programmed that shows the plight of some of the really poor OAPs.

Mrs KG

[Russethouse]

When my b-i-l first started his company, 5 of them worked at my sisters home, a assistant kept turning up the heating so in the end my sister turned it down and gave her a cardigan to borrow !!

Last year my friend who had oil central heating was waiting to be evicted and didn't want to buy another minimum amount of oil, believe me, its the only time I had to put my coat on going in !!! But she wrapped up with layers etc and didn't moan about it...

[lindal1000]

When we first moved over here we had no ceilings in the main room and when I cooked the dinner it used to get cold bringing it from the kitchen to the one room we heated.

I didn't watch all the program, but I thought the main point was that the energy companies charged those with the least money the most.

[YCCMB]

In the UK (not France, where I think fewer of the people on here have central heating ) we didn't have CH in our house until quite recently, and then only downstairs. We installed CH in the rest of the house when we put it on the market. We moved out without ever having us d it, other than to test the system. This was two years ago.

Whilst I do feel the cold, I am equally uncomfortable if I'm too warm in the house.

[mint]

I generally never watch these types of programmes because they make me feel guilty (because of my own good fortune) and utterly depressed by these stories and now I often want to say please, I really do NOT want to know[:$]

However, I caught some of the programme last night because, unusually, when I returned from the gym, OH had gone out on some atelier to do with maps.  So, I had a couple of slices of quiche left over from lunch and a glass of wine for a treat and vegetated in front of the telly.

I agree totally with many of the comments made on here.  The one with the dyed red hair looked to have on a shirt and thin jumper and the one with the dyed black hair, as has been pointed out, ignored all the letters from the company and was wearing a jumper with large holes with a lot of flesh showing through the holes.

Have these people never heard of thermal vests and long johns, scarves, thick socks, etc?  No commonsense or else not prioritising as they wait till the meter is nearly out before topping up?

Yes, I do feel sorry for them but, mon dieu, what do they do to help themselves?

The energy companies are like banks, always "punishing" people for being poor.  I know of one bank where, should you be unfortunate enough to be seriously overdrawn and needed to talk to someone about your affairs, you are given a premium rate 0870 number to ring.

[Hoddy]

There's a whole chapter of social history here isn't there ?

At risk of sounding like one of the four Yorkshiremen in the sketch -

Hot water bottles ? Luxury. We used to have firebricks wrapped in pieces of old blanket.

I've had such a laugh about this with one of my brothers today about when he and I and my even younger brother used all get into one bed and snuggle up as much as we could.

Never mind ice on the inside of the window I can remember my face flannel being frozen to the sink.

If you try and tell the young people of today ......

Hoddy

[idun]

But apparently no one can live like this any longer.......... many are dying and I do not understand.......

My Dad's pension is not a lot but more than enough to keep warm and my friend's mother has an even lower pension and she manages to eat well and keep a warm home........... so why are some not managing????

............I do not understand at all.

In this house, we keep the living room warm and that is about it. I hate a warm bedroom, just a warm bed that I have warmed, but if I needed to would buy an electric blanket to warm it up.

[Chancer]

I stopped heating bedrooms a couple of years ago, I have electric blankets which I find are more reliable and far cheaper overall than a warm woman [:P]

Hot bunking is the answer to being too poor to stay warm!

 

A few winters ago during the big freeze when I desperately needed a new car battery and the delivery driver was doing the usual French thing of inventing delivery excuses when he didnt want to get out of bed I was having to take the old battery to bed with me at night to be able to start the car the next day [:D]

[Russethouse]

[quote user="idun"]But apparently no one can live like this any longer.......... many are dying and I do not understand.......

My Dad's pension is not a lot but more than enough to keep warm and my friend's mother has an even lower pension and she manages to eat well and keep a warm home........... so why are some not managing????

............I do not understand at all.

In this house, we keep the living room warm and that is about it. I hate a warm bedroom, just a warm bed that I have warmed, but if I needed to would buy an electric blanket to warm it up.

[/quote]

I suspect your Dad and friends Mum, like my late parents have always managed, because that is their nature and they had too, where as some just never have and don't now either.

Btw my friend is now in an upstairs maisonette ...heat rises, so although she now has heating it's rarely on, it's set at about 18 in the day and it only kicks in very occasionally, sometimes not for days ......

[Patf]

Idun - one difference is that nowadays people are living longer, and after about 70 your resistance to cold, mobility etc get less.

And it's necessary for the body to adapt to the cold from childhood, whereas children now are kept warm (unecessarily) so never learn to put up with cold.

I remember ice on the inside of bedroom windows too, got dressed under the covers.

[YCCMB]

I remember after my eldest son was born (in January) a visit from the health visitor where she said it was "too cold" in his bedroom. I asked her what she said to people who had no central heating or no means to heat their houses.

Subsequently, my neighbour popped round to visit and I was talking to her about it. Her husband, by coincidence, was the senior paediatric consultant to the hospital where my son was born. She told me that when she had her own children, she would often put them outdoors in their prams with a hot water bottle and blankets....in Edinburgh, in winter. An added twist to this was that both she and her husband were Nigerian.

[idun]

Well Chancer.......... I suppose it is good to know that you don't go out with 'cheap' women[blink][Www]

What appals me is on a hot day, I'll see Mums out in teeshirts and shorts and their babes are wrapped up for artic conditions. This is England, not France, rarely saw a babe being wheeled around in France!

[Russethouse]

Posts have been removed from this thread as they were not in accordance with the Code of Conduct. Other posts that were meaningless without reference to the original have also gone.

The situation is tense and feelings are naturally strong however when posting please remember that any form of racism is against the Forum Code of Conduct and moderate your language accordingly

Please keep to the subject of this thread.

Thankyou

[chessie]

Oh dear - who upset our 'Mod' ?  That's a shame.

I was enjoying the 'memories' of those who can remember the good old days.  I too remember frost inside the windows - used to enjoy scratching patterns in the ice.   And I did end up with a horrible chilblain which was pretty painful.   Mum's reaction - 'oh dear, don't know why... it;ll get better soon when the warm weather comes.....' !!

Amd the old electric fire with the curly wurly glow element;  huddled round that till I got scorch marks on my legs - every winter.   Took years for them to fade after we moved to a home with coal burning fire plus back boiler which ran the radiators - luxury.

But there are two main points here.   The 'yoof' of today do not have any common-sense whatsoever - let's be honest about that.   Totally spoiled, everything handed to them, wrapped up in cotton-wool (can't play conkers because of dangers' etc etc - we all know the 'elf & safety lot are total idiots).

There are also huge problems in the UK because the idiocy of signing up - thanks D Milliband and Davey - to a ruinous climate change act - which has caused the UK's energy bills to soar;  while efficient power stations are being shut-down and more and more reliance on sporadic wind and solar power.   Facing black-outs in the future the Government refers to 'stored energy' - which means that big businesses, hospitals, etc - will be running DIESEL GENERATORS as back ups.   Diesel generators for crying out loud - to cover the sheer stupidity of ALL Governments (and particularly Labour twits hatred of nuclear).      (Let's not get distracted by climate change/ blah blah here - whether we believe the 'cult' or not - it has led to the most ludicrous situation in the UK - and sheer short-termism by all governments  as to ensuring the security of energy supplies in the UK).

We are governed, everywhere, by idiots, complete and utter clowns who know nothing.

They are mainly responsible for many people in the UK having problems keeping warm and paying reasonable prices for energy to keep themselves warm and be able to cook.

Two huge problems.  But the young really do seem to be very stupid at times.

[Russethouse]

Don't worry Chessie, no 'happy memories' were harmed during the moderation of this thread ;-)

On a related subject, about the 'young' the other day on FB a lady was asking for help regarding her young daughter who is at primary school. Apparently she 'kicks off' big style if she has to wear undies or socks with seams and refuses point blank to wear them - that has meant that she has been wearing trousers to school but now its time to go into summer dresses....Various answers were given...but I want to know how we ever got to this stage - are we feeding our children such a cocktail of chemicals that more children really do have all these sensitivities ( Its called Sensitive disorder ) or are parents just not firm enough ?

I know that my OH (or me come to that) don't particularly like wool or cashmere close to our skins, he's not keen on silk either...but it doesn't rule our lives and I can't see my mother would have had much truck with it either...I would have been told to get on with it...

Am I just being a grumpy old woman ?

[YCCMB]

Please, Chessie, don't blame "the young". First, look to their parents, without whom they wouldn't have learned some of their behaviours in the first place.

When my "young" son popped home at the weekend, he was pleased to report that he and his GF spend almost nothing on heating their flat. They have no need...all the other residents of their block do it for them by overheating their own flats, leaving son and GF to profit both physically and financially from the residual heat. They're on the third floor, so that's a lot of heat rising!

My kids grew up in a cold house. They'd go out and play to get warm. Neither owned a games console, and they only got driven anywhere if it was too far to walk or public transport was unavailable. I haven't noticed that either they or their friends demonstrate any fundamental stupidity. On the contrary, the majority of their friends are nice, well-adjusted human beings...many extremely successful in their chosen fields and with better developed social consciences than a lot of their parents' generation. And a lot less "stupid" than many people of my generation. A LOT less.....

[lindal1000]

I think you lot have been watching too much trash UK TV (ironic statement meant to be tongue in cheek!). Most young people I meet come across as anything but stupid and spoiled! Yes there are a few and they make good TV viewing figures, but they aren't the majority.

After our period living in arctic conditions, we finished the house with underfoot heating and an airsource heatpump and can now keep the whole house at 21 degrees all winter for less than the cost of an electric fire. Making the most of new technologies designed to save fossil fuels actually saves us a considerable amount of money. And yes, I too slept in cold bedroom, with ice on the insides of the windows and a smelly old paraffin heater and it was horrible. I loathe being cold.

[chessie]

@ Betty -You sound a good, solid, sensible parent - and rightly proud of your kids.

Possibly you are in the minority though....

Did you watch the programme recently on TV about a family who experienced life from the 1950s onwards;  sighs of nostalgia from me about the 60s and 70s.

What was very interesting, though, was the woman's reaction to how modern technology had caused huge changes in family behaviour.  In the 50s, 60s and 70s episodes the children were indeed out and about, with complete freedom, running around in the woods and playing in the streets - without any adult supervision.   Children today, although materially have 'everything' have lost that freedom;  and the woman made the very pointed comment about the 'lack of family time' and that element of enjoying life as a family was then missing from the 1990s onwards.

I can't help feeling that the PC world of not disciplining your children, of 'being friends' with your children, of 'having to earn their respect' (excuse me - you're the parent, you don't have to 'earn respect') has contributed in a large part to younger parents feeling unable - or not knowing how - to draw the line, to stand up to their bullying 5 year old who insists on having their own way.  I know what I did when 5 year old - occasionally - threw a strop - but I'd be accused of all sorts of 'abuse' nowadays - maybe that's where common-sense has been destroyed;  parents are frightened to take strict actions becuase they feel pressured into 'toeing the line'.  

Maybe the media is to blame;  we see on tv all the super-dooper modern homes, with all the gadgets, and all the actors walking around with flimsy clothes - and the modern yoof think that's how to dress at home - flimsy t-shirts etc - and the heating on full blast  !!

Maybe when the power-cuts happen and they have to wear coats indoors it might dawn on them just how silly they have been.    What also surprises me is that if they believe in 'climate change' - and think we should all reduce our energy consumption, shouldn't they be the ones walking around indoors with the thick jumpers and warm socks.......

And if they don't, then that shows a real lack of joined-up thinking doesn't it ?   So where has the common-sense gone ?   Reckon something's been put in the water  !!

[chessie]

@Lindal - that sounds just lovely.

But on a realistic level, how many existing homes in the UK can have the ground source heat pump etc.  Only really possible out here in France because of more space, especially if being built from new.   Most ordinary people in the UK don't have the luxury of space, or the finance to do what you have done.

Lucky you - keep on glowing - but there are the vast majority who won't have your opportunity.  How many new builds in France, Germany, Spain etc - do have the ground-source heat-pump ?

[lindal1000]

Air source, not ground source..They take up the same space as an air con unit.

And yes I realise we are very fortunate. I also realise that the producers of this kit completely over inflate the prices to make them unaffordable to many people, meaning that while they save on heat they spend out in the installation, and that whilst they really come into their own in new builds, that are small and well insulated, that is the last place you are likely to find them as the developers want to build as cheaply as possible.

[Hoddy]

It all depends what you mean by stupid and spoiled. My grand daughters are neither, but they aren't as capable or as independent as I was at their age.

Bikes were a great liberator for a country kid like me and I used to go for miles to see friends and relatives, sometimes with my father, and sometimes alone. My grand daughters can't do that safely, but that doesn't mean they're stupid or spoiled.

There is an advantage of having only one room warm in that the family has to be all together. I have treasured memories of sitting round the fire with my parents playing games that had to be adapted for the little ones and sometimes the younger ones had to be patient while the older ones had a turn at something they liked. Not much chance to be overindulged or selfish.

[YCCMB]

It is what it is. My children hated us until they were well out of puberty, but that's a rite of passage just like everything else. Now, they speak unprompted of being grateful that we made them get paper rounds and Saturday/holiday jobs (not least because, believe me, I speak from experience, if you've got no other work experience, it certainly helps your CV), and they say how glad they are that we instilled them with a work ethic and the belief that nothing comes for free. I'm absolutely NOT a model parent (who is?) but you can (and will) love your children without having to pander to their every whim or make their lives devoid of the bad stuff which, let's face it, they're going to need to deal with one day!

But I'm digressing from my point. Which was simply that you can't label a generation as "stupid" without asking who made them that way. From what I saw (the trailer) of the programme under discussion, at least a couple of the participants were far from young.

Yes, I watched "Back in time for the weekend" Chessie. I'd rather live today's family life than be a wife and mother in any earlier decade. I didn't get married or have children till the 80's, by which time at least I didn't have to spend my every waking moment chained to the sink. In fact, aside from some of the very interesting insights into a woman's place in the household, I'm glad I didn't have to live with most of the interior decor pre-1990's (OK, I did...but it was my parents' choice!)