Look at Brexit a different way

[chessie]

OK - we've all had our 'what the heck' moans, groans, rants whatever.

On the other long thread there's been several undercurrents about -

pensions

health

childrens' future - freedom of movement

Look at all this a different way might help to change perspectives.

The 'freezing' of pensions to Commonwealth countries was a direct result of Heath and his 'give away everything' in an attempt to join the pretend 'common market'.   One of the terms for joining was to cut off all ties with our commonwealth - and that did include freezing of pensions.

Now a 'decent' (yeah I know !) - but a decent UK government, the minute we're out of this federalist nightmare, would be able - and would, importantly - have the freedom to pay all UK pensioners, wherever they live in the world - the UK pension to which they are rightly entitled.  It is ONLY the eu Rules & Diktats which is preventing that.   So there's one gain for those who live in Commonwealth countries.

Why anyone would think a UK government would freeze everyone's pension who does not live in the UK needs to look at all those other countries around the world where the UK pension IS uprated year after year.  

Health; fine - a UK government could easily say to ANY country 'we'll meet the health costs of our citizens - provided you meet the health costs of your citizens who are living and using the UK's health service'.   Simple ?  Fair ?

Young people - and closing their access to europe   for pity's sake.   What 'access' to europe ?    How many young people actually live and make their lives outside the UK ?  And are they really going to be prevented, en-masse, for being able to move freely around europe ?

Look at the ties we could have with Canada, NZ, Oz.   There is absolutely nothing to prevent any Government restoring those links, those ties - so that citizens from those Commonwealth countries would have the freedom to live in the UK - freedoms denied at the moment;  and for UK citizens to go and live and work in those countries - reciprical arrangements anyone ?

There are many, many changes ahead.   I'm sure young women drivers will appreciate the reduction in their car insurance (already being talked about);  they'll also appreciate using powerful hairdryers - and will continue to be able to use them;  back to useful, powerful vacuum cleaners again - and decent lightbulbs to see the dust by - with no dangerous mercury filled 'geen' lightbulbs.

Oh - were any of you aware that under the eu Fishing 'treaty' that UK fishermen can only fish up to 12 miles from the french coastline - whereas french, and all the others - have the right to fish up to the UK's 6 mile coastline - that's a lovely fair deal isn't it ?

There are very positive ways of looking at Brexit.   Uncertainty - certainly.   But it is the certainty of the future direction of the eu which should have been highlighted more, ever expanding, ever more controlling, harmonising etc etc, and which really is worrying.

As Churchill said - 'given the choice the UK will choose the wider world'....... and that is what the citizens of the UK have done, in a democratic vote.

[PaulT]

Chatting to someone today who voted Remain commented 'we may as well get it over and done with because if the outcome had been Remain it would only have lasted until 2020 when come the election UKIP would have gained even more votes and MP, been in coalition with the Tories and voted through with the Tory euroscpetics.

[NickP]

Well said and put Chessie. Unfortunately most people on these "Anglo French" forums are panicking and imagining all sorts of problems for themselves and their situation. Who voted for what is now of no consequence at all, what we have to do is make the situation work for the benefit of all our citizens and our country. It wont be easy; and we wont get everything we all want, but as an old Hungarian proverb says : To make an omelette you have to crack the eggs. Very apt under these circumstances.

[Chancer]

Well done Chessie, at last someone with their glass full!

Listening to the doom and gloom prédictions you would be forgiven for believing that before the EU membership British subjects Young or old never went abroad to live work or retire, I bet the numbers were actually higher.

I wont hold out hope for pension increases abroad but surely pressure will be brought to bear.

The thought of NZ or Canada becoming more accessible is very appealing not for my next move but maybe for my final one if circumstances dictate the need, ill health etc.

[NormanH]

Well one good thing is that is that Mother Theresa has got shot of Cameron, Gove and Osbourne, and the nasty party seems to have had enough of a shock to abandon the ridiculous 'austerity' policy they imposed.

Unfortunately they managed to put the blame on Europe, having previously managing to make people swallow their lies about the Labour party, instead of accepting that it was the gambling of the banking system that they represent that had caused the  problems.

[mint]

The thing is though that I think she has put the final nail in Labour's coffin.  No Nasty Party for now perhaps but no Labour Party perhaps forever.

I don't know how to say this without attracting brickbats but I actually quite like the way Corbyn refuses to bow to his own MPs and never gets needled by even the most hostile questions from journalists.  He answers quietly and does that little smile he has.  And I really don't think the usual combatants on tv and radio or indeed in parliament knows quite what to make of him.

Admittedly his endorsement of Remain left much to be desired but the man himself is strong and stubborn.  Disagree with him, dislike him even, but you have to give it to him that he sticks by what he believes.

If Theresa May is a "bloody difficult woman", Jeremy Corbyn is surely the male equivalent. 

[Patf]

I agree about Jeremy Corbyn, Mint. I rejoined the LP last year and voted for him, and will do so again at the next leadership election (soon).

But I fear he might be fighting a losing battle, and the time has come for a few centrist parties. Which is a shame because all govts need a healthy opposition to challenge them.

[andyh4]

I too fear the direction of the Labour party will bring a poor showing.

There is a tendency to adopt what I call Newtonian politics. [Isaac newton first law of motion - for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.] So when the Tories veer to the right in an attempt to recapture UKIP voters the reaction for Labour is to veer to the left.

The danger is that this leaves a middle ground - which is probably the majority of the electorate - with no one representing them. You then end up with either people voting for what they see as the least worst option or, they feel completely disenfranchised, do not vote and maybe never vote again. Voting for parties holding the middle ground is seen as senseless since "they" will never get in.

In fact believing that your vote for the middle ground parties which will not get elected is a waste is wrong, because when the political statisticians see that the middle ground has gained x thousand votes, they then turn the Lab/Tory politics to attract those votes and steer back to the centre.

Love him or loath him (and many do) Tony Blair and his team saw this for the first time in 20 years for Labour in 96. A labour party that appeals to the centre ground does not have to betray the principles of looking after the nation as a whole and making sure that the disadvantaged get help to stop them being disadvantaged.

[woolybanana]

Just looking at Brexit a different way and not commenting on Mr Corbyn and his gang of threatening louts, whoever says that the old Dominions want to have treaties with GB again? Whatever have we got to offer them that they cannot get better elsewhere. Just one tiny example, the Australians wanted some new submarines, so did they come to the Mother Country for them? Of course not, they went to France?

As I see it, the only thing we could have in common with them in the future is control of immigration. Australia gives us a fine example by creating concentration camps on remote islands and shoving the people on there, whereas NZ and Canada really have strict policies and will only allow those they want to enter; ooops, that was mentioned in another thread as one of the advantages of Brexit.

Oh, and bravo for all those super strong hair dryers, kettles and vacuum cleaners which will use even more electricity and help destroy the environment.

I don't think that Europe had anything to do with the British governments meanness about pensions towards pensioners in our former Empire, though I am not sure who brought in that particular piece of legislation.

If GB is gonna survive outside the EU and have a decent standard of living, it needs a massive investment in R and D leading to cutting edge industry, hard workers and tightly controlled government spending. But, guess what, our R and D situation is under threat already and many startups are actually moving to Berlin where it is cheaper to rent premises and live, partly because we have had insane property price rises and have allowed a ridiculous buy to let market to stop young people getting their own place.

Oh, ooops, not having your own place means you can move so much more easily when you do not have any loyalty to home, especially when it is owned by a greedy, thieving, rapacious landlord.

Definitely looking good out there.

[mint]

[quote user="Patf"]I agree about Jeremy Corbyn, Mint. I rejoined the LP last year and voted for him, and will do so again at the next leadership election (soon).

But I fear he might be fighting a losing battle, and the time has come for a few centrist parties. Which is a shame because all govts need a healthy opposition to challenge them.

[/quote]

Bravo, Pat!

There are times when you need a "devil's advocate" like Corbyn who puts across an alternative viewpoint and gives a vision that is opposite to the established order.

These people may not be electable but they help to change the agenda for debate. 

So now, even May is watering down austerity.

[andyh4]

Wooly wrote

Oh, and bravo for all those super strong hair dryers, kettles and vacuum cleaners which will use even more electricity and help destroy the environment.

Fear not W. I can see few companies making special super power hair dryers, kettles or vacuum cleaners for a 60m UK market when shipping 450m to continental Europe.

[chessie]

Listen you - if you had long hair you'd be very glad of the -existing-  powerful hairdryers.   The trouble is that the lower powered ones take longer to dry ones hair - so there is NO energy saving at all.  And that goes for vacuming as well - I'm sure you'll notice the difference in dust disappearance when you have to use a lower powered vac - you do do some vacuuming don't you ? !!

The reduction in power stuff really is a nonsense;  applieances will take longer to do the job - and there will be very, very little energy saved.

As China makes a lot of these, and as a lot are exported to USA - full powered zoom zoom super charged models - we'll just add orders for the UK on top of those from the USA.  Easy.

As for Mr JC - I do wonder whether he's just deliberately playing silly b---rs with us all.   As he had previously voted against his own Government on many ocasions, and had been a eurosceptic I did find it very strange that he took the 'remain' line - that really was a surprise and I felt it was a bit hypocritcal of him.

When he was first elected I thought he had agreed for his name to go forward as a joke, which then misfired, and he still can't actually believe he's the Leader of the Opposition.

His young supporters are making fools of themselves, fools of Mr Corbyn and fools of the Labour Party.   The UK needs strong opposition, a decent Labour Party - but we don't seem to have that now, which is very sad.

[Rabbie]

I became a registered supporter of the Labour party after the last election so I could vote for a leader who could oppose the Government in a positive way. Unfortunately instead Corbyn was elected. I decided to give him a chance but he has not shown he is up to the job in the House of Commons. I have no doubt that he is a decent honest man but he unfortunately for the country is not a leader. Leaders need followers and JC does not inspire his troops in Parliament. His previous track record of voting against his own party does not seem to have been conducive to inspiring loyalty. Although he expressed support for the Remain campaign in the referendum his refusal to give one of his colleagues assurance that he had voted that way raises doubts about his sincerity.

I will not be voting for him in the next leadership vote as I believe it is essential that the Leader of the Opposition has the support of at least 25% of his own party MPs

[andyh4]

Chessie wrote

As China makes a lot of these, and as a lot are exported to USA - full powered zoom zoom super charged models - we'll just add orders for the UK on top of those from the USA. Easy.

Yep. Just get the national grid to change to 110V and everything is OK. Many of the US machines (unlike European ones) do not have a switch or automatic voltage change. Oh and at the same time rewire the UK housing market since you will need a lower resistance in the wiring to provide the same power at the appliance. (V=ir - so reduce V and to maintain i you must reduce r).

[Chancer]

[quote user="chessie"]Listen you - if you had long hair you'd be very glad of the -existing-  powerful hairdryers.   The trouble is that the lower powered ones take longer to dry ones hair - so there is NO energy saving at all.  And that goes for vacuming as well - I'm sure you'll notice the difference in dust disappearance when you have to use a lower powered vac - you do do some vacuuming don't you ? !!

[/quote]

 

Never ever now that all my places are carpet free zones.

 

I bought cheapy vacuums for the flats and have given them to Emmaus, I still have far too many vacuums in my workshop.

[Russethouse]

My problem with Jeremy Corbin is that no matter how sincere he is he is apparently prepared to risk the future of the Labour Party on the alter of his own ego.....

As for 'this silly austerity program' if we are not careful all we will do is leave a huge debt for future generations......

[NormanH]

I find this a thoughtful analysis of the present struggles in the Labour Party

https://medium.com/@harrygiles/whats-going-on-in-the-labour-party-and-what-does-it-mean-fe0131744fac#.xfmu5dopy

[chessie]

@ Andy

You are obviously an extremely clever person, and thank you for the lesson in electrical engineering.

Why not just import those that do have the voltage switch;  according to american women there are many models that provide the 110/220 switch - so those are the ones to import surely ?  There are going to be a lot of very unhappy British, and european women at some time in the future when their hair-dryers aren't so effective.   A braod swathe of unhappy women - an army of women who take longer to dry their hair - on the march...........you really want that to happen !!!   Be afraid, be very afraid !!

Anyway, with what's happening in Turkey we really are living in interesting times - not sure I like this Chinese curse any more.

Enjoy the warmth, sunshine, family and friends today everyone.

[woolybanana]

So, Chessie, what shall we call you gals with your hair in a state, the Frizzies, the Lankies, the Fuzzywuzzies?

[PaulT]

Mr JC - he seems to me just a puppet of the unions. As for him expecting the loyalty of MPs, that is extremely hypocritical as he never showed loyalty to the Labour Party voting against it many times. As for supporting Remain there seems to be a difference of opinion from other Remain politicians. He refused to share a stage with them and at one point stated that he was only 7/10th for the EU.

Saw it somewhere whereby the leader requires a certain % support of their MPs which JC most certainly does not.

Personally, if he ever became PM then the unions would have a field day at the expense of the general population (and I know some of those will be union members).

[mint]

PaulT, JC has a cat's hell in chance of being elected PM.

I still think he fulfills a function in giving an alternative discourse.  As I have repeated several times, he is unelectable.

I still think he is useful in moving the debate along.

[Rabbie]

The UK system of government works best when there is a credible opposition which unfortunately under Corbyn Labour isn't. Until Labour has an electable leader it just gives the government a free run. Now that we have the Brexit vote is more important than ever that the government is kept up to the mark to make sure the negotiations are carried out as effectively as possible

[lindal1000]

chessie we don't use high voltage anything in our house! Not because of eco reasons but when you have 3 phase it's very easy to blow a phase without careful balancing! I can't see the Uk backtracking on much of this legislation anyway. Someone said to me last week 'well at least now we can buy curly cucumbers'. It made me laugh because no matter how much I tried to convince them that the EU did nothing to prevent the sale of curly cucumbers and the reason they were all straight was because they are mostly grown hydroponically in water she was having none of it,

[chessie]

Oh Lindal tell me about it... one of the joys of France.   When we first moved here we couldn't put the kettle on at the same time as the micrwave because the power dropped on both.   Quite funny now looking back, but oh dear was I glad we 'upped' our power supply.

Yes - the curly wurly cucumbers is funny;  but quite apart from the fact that they are grown hydropnically (clever girl !) - I think the producers are happy for them to be straight because it meant they could be packed neatly in boxes with the exact same numbers in each boxes (you sure there isn't an eu Diktat about that somewhere ?!!).

But with long, thick hair the idea of low powered hairdryers and tongs would be a problem for me - think I'm going to stock-pile 3 or 4 as a 'just in case'.   Lovely warm weather means I can wash and dry in the sun - but it's hopeless in the winter, and I do like to have a turbo-charged dryer.   Just one of the many niggles about the eu;  rather than 'banning' everything wouldn't it have been better to have no VAT on such items, or subsidise them and encourage their use - it's the 'ban this, that and everything else' that is just control-freakery....

Still with all the awful circumstances at the moment niggles about low or proper powered hair-dryers does seem trivial.

Out to enjoy the sun again (having washed hair and now to dry it !), and then a night-market with group of friends.

Hope everyone else has an enjoyable evening.

[chessie]

WB - oh you do believe in living dangerously don't you !

FuzzyWuzzies - now there I think you might run into trouble under the new 'misappropriation of culture' which is a new one on me...but it's ben said so we all now have to be careful...sigh

Not sure the frizzies or lankies would work - that's discrimination against 50% of us - so that's another no-go.

If you look at some of the young people today they are now colouring their hair the most wonderful range of colours - red, blue, green, purple - all on the same head.

So we're going to have the rainbow-coloured frizzies or lankies.......uhmmm - an army of angry, rainbow coloured women frizzies and lankies on the march - strike terror into the heart of any eu kommisar who's banned our turbo-charged hairdryers.... there's a thought !