SaligoBay Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 This couple's friend insisted on driving off drunk from their house. They're now being tried for being partially responsible for the death and destruction he subsequently caused:http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1320671,00.htmlHe died too, so it's kind of irrelevant for him, but some interesting issues anyway.If your friend drove off from your house plastered, would you phone the police about it? Do you think there should be a legal obligation to do so?If you knowingly let your friend drive in that condition and he caused death and mayhem, would you feel responsible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Thats a tricky one, isn't it. Shop your friends to the police? I hope I will never be in that position, as I could well be plastered at the same time as my friends, and may not have the judgement to stop them. The woman has lost half her family, and her grandchild is orphaned; ism not surprised she feels strongly. I have stopped loads of people driving by taking their keys and ordering a taxi in England, sometimes paying in advance for it. Never been in that situation here, but we have had French and English people laugh at us for walking home when the car was there. We were both legless. I like to think I will always have the courage of my convictions, and stop them driving - after all, if they were sober, they would hopefully do the same for me.If I did knowingly let a friend drive off drunk, and s/he caused death/destruction, I am pretty sure I would blame myself for the rest of my life, because I 'knew'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deby Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 What an awful story! The law needs to change and be enforced but am not convinced this is the right route.Annoys the hell out of me when completely sensible, well-educated people (who can also afford the taxi fare) get behind the wheel and drive home - drunk!If we are out late and have to drive home it sometimes feels like we are playing Russian Roulette.Every Maire in the land should set an example!Deby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Thing is, Deby, I have done this myself. I was not over any legal limit, but knew I should not drive. Did it anyway. Got home no problem. Before I start to sound like TBlair with my lack of verbs, the question SB poses is a really interesting one to me. Never mind the mayor, what would you people do? Here's another for you all, when you see children rolling around in the front or back seat of a car, unsecured, what do you think? what do you do, if anything? As an afterthought, this reminds me of a thread a while ago about 'flashers'. Lots of people said they flashed others to warn them that there was a police speed trap ahead. I don't agree with it, but at least it slows people down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill<br><br>Jill (99) Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 I think if friends were obviously drunk you should take their keys and insist on them staying the night. Getting a taxi for them is another option, but I'd not be prepared to pay for it for them - not unless I thought they were so far gone they might throw up, anyway. Regarding cars with children loose in the back - it annoys me intensely - especially sometimes they are standing in the gap between the two front seats! Or kids on adults knees - they seem to think it is safe!Regarding flashers - yes it does slow people down. It depends on where it is. There are some places when the speed limits are too low and people may only be going a bit over the speed limit. So, then it's not a bad thing. I know roads round here that are 30 mph when 30 miles away, similar roads have a 50mph limit!On the other hand, I was somewhere a few weeks ago and it was a road with speed humps and I was going fairly slow, but as fast as I felt I could reasonably go over the humps which was below the limit. Then someone sped past me - must have been going 50 or 60 mph! I hope they squashed their exhaust pipe on the landing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Jill, i'm not quite following your reply. The quote thing is rubbish on LF, but I hope you can fommow my response.Surely road conditions can change within 30 metres, never mind 30km, however similar the terrain may seem. I'm a bit of a mad cap person, however serious my replies seem on this site, but I stay within the recommended speed limitAs for getting the taxi fare back - I got let down once for 20 quid. I was gutted, but I had done what I thought was right. As you say, at the start I would insist on having the car keys or I would put the friends up. I would rather people thew up in my house than killed someone else, due to my not paying the fare in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letrangere Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 It only takes a few months of living in a country with a zero tolerance policy on drinking and driving with penalties that include an automatic absolute minimum 3 months - more often a year - in jail if caught with even a trace of alcohol in bloodstream - and they do catch you too - to realise that it is not only one of the most stupid but also one of the most unnecessary things any individual can do. No one ever needs to drink and drive, think about it, there's always an alternative. And, yes, SB, I think it could be argued that we have a moral obligation to ensure no one ever leaves our house unfit to drive home. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creusois Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 After all my years working for a seat-belt manufacturer, I am still surprised how sober people seem to forget to wear them, but drunks always manage to put them on. Seat belts do not save lives, but they lessen the risk of dying. Whenever we go out, one of us ALWAYS abstains from alcohol, and, we are proud to say, all of our friends in France do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 [quote]After all my years working for a seat-belt manufacturer, I am still surprised how sober people seem to forget to wear them, but drunks always manage to put them on. Seat belts do not save lives, but...[/quote]Seat belts do not save lives, but they lessen the risk of dying.Eh? Is this some kind of seatbelt marketing-speak?That aside, drink-driving costs lives and it is totally unacceptable. If people need to go to prison for "aiding and abetting", so be it. You would expect a prison sentence or aiding and abetting a murderer. wouldn't you?What I find ridiculous is that (it appears that) DD's who lose the licence (not guaranteed!) can drive one of those idiotic (dangerous, badly driven etc) "sans permis" vehicles - unbelieveable!Don't get me started............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Our garde champetre lost his licence, drinking and driving. So our wonderful Mairie bought him an Aixam, sans permis for the period of his ban so he could fulfill his offical duties.......... now wasn't that nice of them. I can see how handy these cars, sans permis, must be for some, but I always feel that they are a danger to other road users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted October 8, 2004 Author Share Posted October 8, 2004 Indeed, I can imagine court cases getting very very complicated. But if it cuts down the number of deaths on French roads? I think the moral issue of whether you would grass a mate or not, it really comes down to your own involvement. If your mate goes on to kill a family that you don't know, tough luck, but if he (and these things do happen!) killed the rest of your family, or drove the car into your living room, it might be different, non?Generally, I find that in Britain, if you say no to alcohol because you're driving, people accept that, but in France there's a worrying tendency for people to tell you "a bit of alcohol won't do you any harm".I expect we've all let people leave our houses with alcohol in their veins, because they're adults and they make their own decisions. But when someone's so drunk that they're no longer capable of making their own decisions.... to be honest, I just hope I never find myself having to deal with that one! Zero tolerance sounds good to me, Margaret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 This is off topic slightly becuase the topic concerns people who are obviously incapable of driving safely.Although I agree that driving a vehicle whilst under the influence needs to be addressed, I think the authorities have to be prepared to give some guidance on when one is safe after drinking. If I have a 6 glass of wine at lunch time, when can I drive again? I really want to know, common sense says it will have left my body by this time next week. But what about tomorrow morning? Tomorrow night? When I asked the local (British) Bobby for guidance he refused, "Can't say" he said. Well if they can't say, how can we make a rational decision whether to drive or not? There is unofficial guidance around, so I usually think of that and then err on the side of caution... but the authorities ought to be publishing some guidance (and advising that we err on the side of caution). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 I was told (by a copper...) that however much you drink, if you leave off by 10pm you should be OK by 7am. I know that I have had a full bottle, finished by 10 and breathalysed myself the next morning and I was clear. The rule seems to be 1 unit of alcohol an hour for metabolisation, less for women than for men.However, I know of one young man who lost his licence due to being over the limit in the morning after drinking in the evening.Further detail at:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_concentration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 quote:<<...I think the authorities have to be prepared to give some guidance on when one is safe after drinking. If I have a 6 glass of wine at lunch time, when can I drive again? I really want to know, common sense says it will have left my body by this time next week. But what about tomorrow morning? Tomorrow night? When I asked the local (British) Bobby for guidance he refused, "Can't say" he said. Well if they can't say, how can we make a rational decision whether to drive or not? >>Apparently it varies considerably according to sex (which one you are as opposed to whether you've had any... although...? ) body weight - 10st male vs 16st male... maybe metabolism for all I know. Then there's the percentage of alcohol in what's being consumed - even wine can vary considerably. So I don't suppose the local bobby was being difficult, just honest. In fact, I think guidelines are *so* approximate based on an unrealistic *average person* they're potentially dangerous.I don't think I would tell on a *friend* who drove. Maybe on someone I didn't like! But I can imagine I would try hard to dissuade someone - anyone - from driving if they were OTT. Always assuming I was capable of making that judgement myself at that moment. Fortunately it's never been a situation I've been in. Carole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantouflard Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 I've also heard Dick's 'Unit per hour' rule (although some suggest 'unit per half hour'. I've also read it is not always quite so simple eg neat spirits can be held up in the stomach at night only to hit the bloodstream when diluted with the 1st coffee of the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissie Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Does anyone else remember a rather tongue-in-cheek TV documentary about crime and punishment (?10-odd years ago) where it was pointed out that if you REALLY want people to drive slower then you replace the driver's seatbelt with a large spike in the middle of the steering wheel.......Chrissie (81) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a rosbif Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 L'avocat de la famille des victimes, Me Fabre-Luce a estimé pour sa part que les prévenus "étaient les premiers maillons de la chaîne de sécurité qui pouvaient sauver" les victimes de l'accident.The couple were the first links in the security chain that could have saved the victims !! Were they really? They want to punish someone for this. The guy who killed these people is dead, so they just had to find someone else !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 You cannot boil roastbeef ,but you can boil a frog ,Get another name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 Funny you should say that Boiling a Frog, a couple we know swear that when they were in London and ordered rump steak that the restaurant boiled it. What can one say, I have never seen or heard of such a thing.Incidentally, you could boil a rosbif, but you would need a rather big pot to do it in, n'est pas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 [quote]Funny you should say that Boiling a Frog, a couple we know swear that when they were in London and ordered rump steak that the restaurant boiled it. What can one say, I have never seen or heard of suc...[/quote]You are correct of course I had forgoten about the canibals boiling missionaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a rosbif Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 [quote]You cannot boil roastbeef ,but you can boil a frog , Get another name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Boiling a rosbif Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Believe me, I can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Dick Smith Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 What's the difference between pea soup and roast beef?Any idiot can roast beef... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Dick Smith Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I don't know what's happened there, rosbif, but you've c***ed up all the posts below... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Please sign in to comment You will be able to leave a comment after signing in Sign In Now Share More sharing options... Followers 0
Boiling a rosbif Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Believe me, I can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 What's the difference between pea soup and roast beef?Any idiot can roast beef... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 I don't know what's happened there, rosbif, but you've c***ed up all the posts below... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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