SaligoBay Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Whaddya reckon then, Phrancofiles?Chirac's non-involvement in Iraq, was it1. a noble, selfless, moral decision?2. a cynical, self-seeking and oil-seeking move? Right now, the talk is of option 2. From today's news, by FRASER NELSON AND JAMES KIRKUP:Memos from Iraqi intelligence officials, recovered by American and British inspectors, show the dictator was told as early as May 2002 that France - having been granted oil contracts - would veto any American plans for war. Tariq Aziz, the former Iraqi deputy prime minister, told the ISG that the "primary motive for French co-operation" was to secure lucrative oil deals when UN sanctions were lifted. Total, the French oil giant, had been promised exploration rights. Iraqi intelligence officials then "targeted a number of French individuals that Iraq thought had a close relationship to French President Chirac," it said, including two of his "counsellors" and spokesman for his re-election campaign. They even assessed the chances for "supporting one of the candidates in an upcoming French presidential election." Chirac is not mentioned by name. A memo sent to Saddam dated in May last year from his intelligence corps said they met with a "French parliamentarian" who "assured Iraq that France would use its veto in the UN Security Council against any American decision to attack Iraq." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Black Jack being moral, selfless and noble........... scratches head, but doubts it.Although one has to admit that for once he had the masses with him when he said his NON! So what ever his reasons/intentions, I'm sure that he was pretty pleased with the result.Are these reports true though.......... seems to have been rather a lot that are a bit iffy......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letrangere Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 But surely this has backfired on the French for the Americans now control who is awarded what by way of contracts in Iraq, a scenario everyone predicted even pre-invasion. What is just as interesting is the massive amount of business French companies have been doing in Iran for the last 12 years since sanctions stopped the US from working there. And one would imagine the French are investing heavily to prop up Syria at present too. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted October 8, 2004 Author Share Posted October 8, 2004 [quote]Black Jack being moral, selfless and noble........... scratches head, but doubts it. Although one has to admit that for once he had the masses with him when he said his NON! So what ever his reasons/...[/quote]LOL TU, hope you didn't scratch your head for too long over this one! He was very very lucky, wasn't he, that his non-involvement happened to be what people wanted. Are the rumours true? Probably. France wants that oil as much as anyone does, and is no more or less moral than any other country, so it just makes sense really.Clever to come out of it WITH oil and WITHOUT losing soldiers tho, eh? Shame other world leaders weren't that astute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letrangere Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 "France wants that oil as much as anyone does"Arguably more so as its own reserves are so paltry. "Clever to come out of it WITH oil"Mmm, I wouldn't be so sure of that. I'll ask around (I work in the industry and do business in Iraq) but would imagine the Bush administration controls where Iraqi oil goes at present. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fontremy Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 What would you expect from the French government other than self interest? As for Chirac - he has always been the arch opportunist and that will never change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghound Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 "What would you expect from the French government other than self interest? As for Chirac - he has always been the arch opportunist and that will never change."This is also true of Blair and Bush. Blair is a great opportunist but manages to hide it better then Bush. All I know is. That both these sods have caused the price of oil to rocket due to them "kicking a hornets nest" that was better left alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jirac18 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 So if you have a hornets nest in your house you just leave it do you? Perhaps wait until it is too big to do anything with at all. French governments traditionally do what is best for French government. I have read a number of things recently implicating the corruption of Chirac and his henchmen. Did you see about the state visit he made to Scandinavia (or Russia possibly?) last week. Apparently the flight should only take three hours. He wanted to arrive having had a full eight hours sleep as this is religious to him. He ordered the captain to fly circuits for the remaining five hours so he could get his beauty sleep. It cost the French tax payer (that's some of us by the way!) over 100 000 Euros. What is he thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 I had the belief that we live in a democratic society where we are allowed to express our opinion.or is it only if the opinion agrees with yours Dunrunnin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Ah 22.16, says it all, Dunny's back on the scotch ! We will be alright for a while, he doesn't where he is until tomorrow afternoon................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 [quote]I had the belief that we live in a democratic society where we are allowed to express our opinion. or is it only if the opinion agrees with yours Dunrunnin?[/quote]Dunrunnin, I may be imagining this, and the forum makes it difficult for me to check back. Can you clarify for me, are you saying you can only have a view if you live in France? If so, that's a bit strong. I live in France, grew up in UK, and have Irish background, yet feel able to make comment on all, and other countries that I have never lived in, or have any family connection with.Where do you live? I ask because I remember recently you had some very strong opinions on the 'subcontinent' of Africa. Are you African? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jirac18 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Tresco that was excellent. Yet again Dunny the dung heep shows what a true ignoramous he really is. I simply aired one opinion of Chirac and his government. That is my right. I may be an immigrant but I fully pay my taxes and support my family and community here in France. If that doesn't give me a right to offer an opinion in response to a post then I'm not sure what will. Follow your own lead Dunny and only ever comment on ignorant, obtuse, rude, ill informed, drunken A*****LES. If you can't figure out the asterix blanks perhaps you would care to meet up someday and I'll explain them as best I can leaving you in no uncertain terms as to what it means. Once and for all why don't you disappear from this forum or learn to be civil and save us all some agro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 You must admit Dunrunnin has a great capacity of stirring the s***. Certainly makes a bland by-the-book forum get lively.Coral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Well done SB - you've really got them going this time !!Chirac certainly seems to have got it right this time - and for a politician to get on in this world being lucky is the most important thing. Even if he had sided with Dubbya and His Holiness TB and wasted money and lives to lose a peace I doubt whether France would see much of the Iraqi oil or the contracts anyway. "The end justifies the means" - to me at least.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghound Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 [quote]Tresco that was excellent. Yet again Dunny the dung heep shows what a true ignoramous he really is. I simply aired one opinion of Chirac and his government. That is my right. I may be an immigrant b...[/quote]I'm afraid you've already lost credibility to criticize when you attack the person not the statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Ho and by the way Miki I don't do scotch anymore. Only drink water with a dash of vitriolic acid.Good time to get back on the scotch then Mik, the dash of vitriolic acid don't suit yer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jirac18 Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Just about sums you up Dunny, don't mistake my obvious dislike of you and pretty much most of what you say with getting stressed or high blood pressure. This is where a forum simply doesn't work because it allows people like you to hide behind your annonimity. Get on with it and try a drop of ketamine in your scotch rather than vitriolic acid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted October 10, 2004 Author Share Posted October 10, 2004 Back on topic please, you lot. I don't know, you'd never find ME involved in such an unseemly squabble in public! The latest, if anyone's still interested, is:http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1323967,00.html"Three executives of France's largest oil corporation have been charged in Paris over claims that they funnelled millions of dollars through a Swiss company in order to bribe officials to gain oil deals in Iraq and Russia. The disclosure will embarrass President Jacques Chirac...." But if he gets overly embarrassed, will this allow Sarkozy to replace him sooner than intended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjb Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Not much sticks to Chirac at the end of the day, he's a little like our Teflon Tony. Then again, there are no Paxmans out there willing to give French politicians a grilling. I admit that it's highly plausible that Chirac had various reasons for not supporting the war and I remember discussing similar matters with one of my french teachers. I don't suppose french TV/Radio/Newspapers have touched upon the story?? However, I also feel that there may be more to the reasons why Mr Blair was so willing to give his (and our) unreserved support to Mr Bush. I've got two great French documentaries: Le Monde Selon Bush and Massoud L'Afghan which throw a little more light on the whole affair.Roll on M.Sarkozy. Maybe it's time to start preparing M.Chirac's cell!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghound Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 "Roll on M.Sarkozy"You've got to be joking. He certainly knows how to popular. What with "persuading" the major supermarkets to keep prices down. Another Blair but speaks French. Give me Chirac. At least you know what his limitations are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a rosbif Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 [quote]Whaddya reckon then, Phrancofiles? Chirac's non-involvement in Iraq, was it 1. a noble, selfless, moral decision? 2. a cynical, self-seeking and oil-seeking move? Right now, the talk is of op...[/quote]SB,I agree with you Chirac's non-involvement in Iraq was a cynical, self-seeking and oil-seeking move. Just in the same way that Blair's involvement was a cynical, self-seeking and oil-seeking decision.And everyone knows that. But what do we expect? Do you know any head of state who acts in a noble, selfless and moral manner? I don't believe that you will go very far in politics if you are noble, selfless and moral ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fontremy Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Blair simply wants to do something "historic" which will mark him down in history. We should judge the Iraq situation in 10 years time not today.Interesting that the Guardian has picked up on the bribery issue. Hidden in the report on WMD the other day was the information that well before the war Saddam had a list of "friendly" governments which could help him get rid of sanctions. Top of the list were Russia and France, both of whom indicated at that stage that in return for cheap oil they would vote against any proposed invasion. So who's most interested in oil?! I would go so far as to say that despite their ignorance of the concequences and how they are perceived around the world, there is a fair degree of altruism in the American actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 Indeed, dunrunning, God Bless her Majesty.But *****? Isn't that what I used as fishing bait last year? They are a bit odious, and I threw a few away in panic when they opened their big mouths and tried to bite me, but then I'm just a girlie, and it was my first time. Managed to stab a few through the head in spite of it all tho. But you're right, I can't see a ***** EVER being in charge of la belle France, even though there are quite a lot of them about. 2 euros for a boxful of the squirmy devils, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaacsnana Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 [quote]Hello I do not know why you have the brass balls to slag of the French governerment and in particular the president of the Republic of France. you are a immigrant here if you do not like it go back t...[/quote]For goodness sake Mik, are you saying that no-one in the UK criticises Blais, or in the US - Bush, or , more importantly - in Iraq - Saddam? The only difference between the three is that the first two can voice their opinions openly without fear of retribution, not so for the unlucky Iraquis.Do you really imagine there are no Frenchmen living in England who did not agree with Blair and openly criticised him to their friends? Get real!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 [quote]For goodness sake Mik, are you saying that no-one in the UK criticises Blais, or in the US - Bush, or , more importantly - in Iraq - Saddam? The only difference between the three is that the first tw...[/quote]Whoah Bunny, steady,Dear old Dunny only posts waffle to get reactions. If you see a previous posting you will see he takes a whisky or four for breakfast, probably on his cornflakes. What's wrong with Calva I say ? So any posts of Dunny's between 06h30 and 24h00 is best treated with sympathy, as he is a bit wobbly in his walk and of course his postings during that period.Have a nice day Dunny OK............ no good he can't hear he's kipping, he'll read this when he comes around.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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