Problems With Local Marie Please Help

[Colandhelinfrance]

Hello good people.

I wonder if anybody can help us.

We purchased our house three years ago, it consisted of two buildings joining each other with a 2acre field. At the time our field was being cut by the local farmer (who happens to be the local marie also) we ended all contracts for cutting our field upon purchase.

Everything was going smoothly until we told the farmer/marie that we would allow him to continue to cut the field, but would not accept the 55 euros he was paying once a year, and that he could cut it for free (he needed to cut the field to build up his subsidy from the government) and when we actually wanted to turn some of the field into a garden he would have to stop. He then turned, saying that he had a contract and would continue. We approached our notaire who assured us that" he was laughing at us" and that he had no right whatsoever to be on our land.

We had to put in for renovation to our property, (which when previously discussed with the marie, were told that we could do what we wanted to the front of the house and just to let him know) he has attempted to block our renovation and has been extremely obstructive every step of the way with our French builder.

He is also best friends with our less than friendly neighbour, who are also being very obstructive.

we feel that this marie has a conflict of interests where we are concerned, and that we are being treated very unfarely. Also he is backing his friends (our neighbours) to the point of abusing his powers.

Can anybody suggest any recourse, or action we can take. The whole situation is spoiling our place in France, its a real shame.  

 

[Miki]

First thing, make a point of going to the Mairie and asking to register to vote and remember to do so every year.That may put you in a different light with the Maire but with the power they have, they can think they are above the law on occasion.

Secondly, is it really worth living somewhere with so much going against you? I might have been lucky in the places I have lived here in France but I have to say, a bit of thought went in to every place we bought. That is not to say you didn't but perhaps it is nitpicking but buying a place with land being used by the Mayor, was perhaps a recipe for problems.

I am annoyed reading your story, as I have known these situations happen here for a long time. Many people who think all is sunshine and light are mainly the ones whose French is not too brilliant but if you listen and talk to the French, you will get to know how racial that some French can be towards, not just the British but towards coloured immigrants and in fact any immigrant on occasion, would appal many folks. You certainly wouldn't believe what many French thought about their victorious soccer team for a start.

I hope you can settle it well but I doubt the Mayor will want to lose such cheap land and with him being thick as thieves with neighbours, it is not the dream yopu wanted is it? Think about it. if it means starting again, so be it.

 

 

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

Find someone else to cut the grass, or do it yourselves.

I disagree with Miki - a rare thing - I think that people like the farmer above would treat a French person in the same way, even a long-standing acquaintance - rural French people have to stand up for themselves or their lives are not worth living.

[SaligoBay]

rural French people have to stand up for themselves or their lives are not worth living.

Can I change this slightly, Pucette?

Everybody in France has to stand up for themselves or their lives are not worth living.

Chacun pour soi.  Fight for your rights, but if you feel it would make things even worse, move.  Once you're no longer in a situation of conflict with the maire and your neighbours, they'll probably magically turn into the generous, friendly cauliflower-laying locals that you always dreamed of. 

Good luck.  I hate these conflicts, but then I'm not French.   

[RayB]

[quote]Find someone else to cut the grass, or do it yourselves. I disagree with Miki - a rare thing - I think that people like the farmer above would treat a French person in the same way, even a long-stand...[/quote]

>>"There are two tragedies in life. One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."<<

The latter being the worst! One must always have a dream!

[Piprob]

We really do hope this works out for you in the end.

From the way you decribe the problem, maybe the Mayor receives an agricultural grant that depends upon your field as part of his hectare count. These grants are given for fixed 'contract' periods, and any threat to his arrangement might have some wider reaching legal/financial implications for him. Something like this might explain why things have turned so unpleasant, and might provide the basis of a compromise deal with him. Is there any way you can find out?

[Val_2]

You do not say whether you are living inthis property full time or for holidays only. If it is for holiday use only, you do not need or use 2 acres of land and in France,agricultural land must be used and not left to stand. Therefore why not come to some agreement with the farmer/maire as to the section you wish to change into garden and get this fenced off if he agrees. I know the land is your property,but the last thing you want or need is to upset the local maire, he is very powerful as you are finding out and you still have 2.5 years of his reign and a possible six more years if he gets in again next time. If this was my land and I didn't need or use it, I would only be too glad of some "mug" to work it for me and keep it tidy. I have to agree with Miki that trouble locally is not a good idea and you will only serve to drive a deeper wedge between yourselves and the locals if you start legal proceedings,the french are notoriously racist when they want to be and not just against skin colour either.

[Will]

I think many communes, however large or small, have these factions - the maire and his supporters, against his/her opponents. If it's not political, then there are cousins and brothers/sisters at each other's throats over some obscure and long-standing family feud. Disagreements are a fact of life in rural France. I don't think it's anything anti-British, though of course if you are an incomer (worse still a city dweller) that's just another reason to be opposed to anything you want to do if you appear to be on the wrong side of the fence. As Miki and Val say, the French can be extremely racist, but they can also be very welcoming (particularly if they can profit financially from you).

Best to avoid conflict if you can, though in this case you seem to have inadvertently strayed into a battle. Invoking the law would not seem like a good move if you want to restore an amicable state.

[Patf]

I wonder if any of your difficulties are caused by language problems and misunderstandings? This happened to us in our first year here ( though over different issues) and we found a bilingual person living nearby, made an appointment with the Maire, and sorted most things out. I still feel we're somehow on trial, but things are better. If necessary, apologise - "Nous sommes desolees" etc. Also, sorry to be nitpicking, but if you call the Maire "Marie", a womans name, that's not going to help matters. Just trying to be helpful! Good luck - Pat.

[Racerbear02]

Alternatively you could apologise profusely, offer him his cutting rights back, apply for and get your planning permission, then tell him goodbye

Might not be productive long term but would be quite satisfying to play him at his own game

Vive la revolution !!

[Alexis]

Trouble is, he can say that the commune needs to buy your house.  Offer a pittance for it then three years later decide against it. 

I wouldn't mess with M. le Maire.

[Miki]

[quote]rural French people have to stand up for themselves or their lives are not worth living. Can I change this slightly, Pucette? Everybody in France has to stand up for themselves or their lives ...[/quote]

Yes I do agree Pucette but it may be a waste of time to stay somewhere if that situation is to be the way of life.

Yes, one has to stick up for oneself, we had a friend who had a torrid time with his Maire, stuck at it, lots of disagreements, then just as he was about to throw the towel in, the Maire got ousted, bit of luck, well yes the new Maire had detested the old Maire. I knew him and he was a genuine old fraudster aand had been for a long time but from that day on, the commune was much more at ease with itself. Luck though wasn't it ?

I have to stick with SB and say that unless the poster is reading the situation slightly wrong (hopefully) and it is as bad as it is described, I would cut and run to a pleasanter place so the dream lives on. Life's too short for what might just end up years of hassle.

Good luck anyway.

 

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

Absolutely agree with what you say there Miki, I only disagreed with you in as far as in my experience French people get away with what they can with each other, not just with foreigners.

Cutting and running to a pleasanter place might well be the solution, although it can be easier said than done; a friend in London moved to avoid the kids pogoing in the above flat; her new neighbours were far far worse than anything she had ever imagined. She has just moved again...

 

[Quillan]

This happened to somebody I know in a village of some 1000 odd people. This person got nowhere with the mayor who was not at all nice so he simply side stepped him completely and went to the DDE direct who said no problem unless the mayor had any objections. He then aranged a meeting with the DDE on site and invited the mayor. When the mayor arrived he was very unhappy because the guy had side stepped him. He then came up with some story about why it should not be allowed, the DDE said it was not a valid reason and the guy got his permission two weeks latter. The mayor does not speak to him anymore but he thinks it's a blessing. The neighbour can object via the DDE but if his reasons are not valid there is little he can do.

If the field is yours ask the guy for a copy of the contract. If he has one take it to the notaire to be validated. If he can't produce one then don't pay him if he cuts the grass again and tell him so. If you don't want that hassle visit a agricultural shop and by a cheap electric fence generator, some wire and a few warning signs. Providing you stay within the law there is not a lot they can do.

We had a problem with people fishing in our river using our garden. When we bought the property we asked on several occasions if the anglers had the right to enter the property to fish as in France there are rules about them having a 2M access along the river bank. We were told no by the agent and the notaire. Come our first April we had about 4 anglers in the garden. I asked them to leave and they refused so I wrote to the prefecture. I got a really nice letter back saying that there was no right of way, I owned half the river, I nor my direct family required licences to fish in our part of the river, I could extract sand (a local thing) but I was responcible for my share of the river.

The next time I had unwanted visitors I showed them the letter and asked them to leave. They waved their arms about, swore at me, and then left but in doing so sh1t outside my garden gate. I put the stuff in a carrier bag and tied it to his wing mirror. A week latter I had the boss of the local angling club visit, he had heard about the letter. It turns out he was getting licence money from all the people along our stretch of the river who's garden bordered the river. I told him I would not tollerate anybody fishing from my garden as it was private, not only that but I informed him that I would ban his people from my side of the river and I would also post a copy of the letter on the village noticeboard. He got really upset and started shouting and whatever so I gave him a large single malt and said I wouldn't do anything providing he stoped anglers form entering my garden. He calmed down, we shook hands and I havn't seen him or a angler since.

You really have to play these people at their own game, you do have rights and you should not be scared of the mayor or any other person especially if you have right on your side.

[Colandhelinfrance]

Many thanks for all your comments, could you tell me who the DDE is please.and who the best people to contact for side stepping the marie are.

As a footnote to some of your comments, my wife does speak French, so I don't think it is a misunderstanding. This Maire has said that if we sign a letter he will prepare, he will end (the non existent) contract. Our notaire has told us to sign nothing & that he has no claim on the field whatsoever, as it is less than a hectare.

Indeed, whilst we were waiting for our planing permission, the notaire drafted a letter for us, it basically told the marie that "if he continued to trespass on our land we would have the right to take him to justice (we of course have not sent this letter as yet) When we asked the notaire if this was a problem sending this sort of letter to a marie, he clearly said NO.

I have a few more details on this matter, but I don't want to overload everybody with everything at once. 

[Quillan]

[quote]Many thanks for all your comments, could you tell me who the DDE is please.and who the best people to contact for side stepping the marie are. As a footnote to some of your comments, my wife does spe...[/quote]

You know I have looked for their full name and can't find it short of driving up to my local one and writing it down but everyone seems to refer to them as DDE.

They are the people who issue and approve the planning forms as well as looking after departmental roads, waste collection etc. If your mayor carries planning forms it is where he gets them from. They are normally located in a main town near you and their HQ is in our case in the same city (Carcassonne) as the Prefecture although iit's the local one you want, in our case Quillan. When we wanted planning permission we went straight to them, they sent a copy to our mayor. They will normally tell you verbally if they think there is a problem from their point of view straight away if you ask. Try the phone book or ask around.

[zeb]

Direction Departmentale de L'Equipement (DDE)

Not necessarily in your nearest town. Ours in on the outskirts of a village so try looking for yours in http://www.pagesjaunes.fr

 

best of luck.......helen

[Georgina]

Just to digress slightly and knowing that the poster has his answer now, did anyone see the programme where the English builder wanted to build a fence to protect his child from the tractors that passed right through in front of his house.  Even though he wanted to build it on his land, the tractors just knocked it down straight away.  He was told it was his land to do with as he liked but the whole neighbourhood fell out with the family.  That must have been horrible and not worth it in the end.  Does anyone know what happened to them?  It was on recently.

Even though I digress slightly as I said, it does show you what can happen if you start challenging people who have been there for many years.

Georgina

[Quillan]

I think the best way of 'putting your self about' is to get a baby or dog.

The reason I say this is because I have always walked my dog round our village every day and it's the quickest way to meet people. I am always 'well mannered' and say "Bonjour" to every one and make sure I ask how they are and shake hands. As time passes you get to know who the gossips are which is very handy as you can use them to your advantage, it's no different to living in a village back in the UK except you can do it down the pub.

When we want to 'test the water' we carfully work out exactly want we want to say then on our rounds mention it to our local gossip then sit back and wait a few days. Somebody, well normally a few actually, will mention something on my rounds and I ask them what they think. If I get a negative I then know where I stand, I will normally then say it was only a thought and I wouldn't like to upset anybody so I won't bother then theres no harm done. Sometimes I let drop something outragious and then 'change my mind' this is then seen as being a nice guy who does not want to upset people which then means I can get away with something else which is seen as a climb down, works every time. It's a bit like office politics I guess.

So in the case of the guy and his fence I would have let it be known I was about to put a 2M brick wall round my property which I was allowed to do as my notaire had said so. When I am asked why I would explain that I was worried about my kids being run over by tractors but providing people respected this I would be happy to put a less noticable wire fence round and would allow access providing people knocked first so I could get my kids inside. After a while they will get fed up with knocking and probably not bother using that route.

You could also mention to the village gossip what was happening and ask them for their thoughts on a possible solution or did they know of anyone who could help them but stressing that you don't want to upset people. Having said that I didn't see the program so I don't really know the exact facts so it's a bit difficult really and in this case it's probably a bit late now.

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

Quillan's approach is exactly what I mean when I say people have to stand up for themselves, wish I was as good at it as he is.

If the Maire had a tenancy prior to the sale and benefited from subsidies under the PAC(CAP) this should have been terminated prior to the sale (or a tenancy between him and the poster signed at the time of the sale, presumably not the case here). If he wanted the land he could have bought it. It would be up to him to take legal action to establish a tenancy, not the poster to disprove its existence.