The winter of my discontent.

[bejay]

Ah TU. After all your trenchant posts over the years about the true nature of France I was hugely amused (and perhaps concerned) about your having absolutely nothing to get annoyed or agitated about. Nothing deeper than that I'm afraid.

bj

[Teamedup]

I am quite capable of getting annoyed about stuff. If the monsters come out of the wood work I shall let you know.

[james419]

For those that appreciate the need for the land of the Free - the UK and the USA

Woman thrown off flight for offensive T-shirt
By Catherine Elsworth in Los Angeles
(Filed: 08/10/2005)

A woman told yesterday how she had been thrown off an American airliner for wearing a T-shirt deemed offensive by fellow passengers.

Lorrie Heasley, 32, boarded a Southwest Airlines flight in Los Angeles wearing a T-shirt with a design including the images of President George W Bush, Dick Cheney, the Vice President, and Condoleezza Rice, the Secretary of State, above an obscene variation on the title of the hit comedy film Meet the Fockers.

When the plane made a scheduled stop in Reno, Nevada, passengers joining the flight complained to cabin crew. Ms Heasley, who was accompanied by her husband Ron, was asked to wear her top inside out, but she refused and was ejected.

''I just thought it was hilarious," said Ms Heasley yesterday. "I have cousins in Iraq and other relatives going to war.

"Here we are trying to free another country, and I have to get off an airplane. . . over a T-shirt. That's not freedom."

Ms Heasley, a lumber trader from Washington state, said she wore the top as a joke for her Democrat-voting parents who were waiting to collect her from the airport in Portland, Oregon.

She said she planned to file a civil rights complaint against the airline.

Marilee McInnis, of Southwest Airlines, said rules allowed the airline to deny boarding to anyone whose clothing was "lewd, obscene or patently offensive".

But Ms Heasley said nobody had complained about her top when she boarded.

The American Civil Liberties Union in Las Vegas said that under the constitution, the T-shirt was protected political speech. Ms Heasley said she had been in touch with ACLU lawyers and wants Southwest to reimburse her for the last leg of the trip.

Ms Heasley, who was flying home from Disneyland, ended up defending herself by phone to a combative television presenter from Fox News.

"He told me I was selfish, I didn't respect people, I was stupid and I didn't like children," Ms Heasley said. "All I did was wear a T-shirt."

What a wonderful thing freedom is - we fight wars etc to be free and not have Id cards etc  btu the good old Yanks defender of the free world and invaders of any one GWB does not like - but dont wear the wrong cloths - he might invade!!!!

[Dick Smith]

James - no need to keep banging the same drum. This was clearly about offensive language on the tee shirt - and I would have objected to it, too. There's no need to be the lowest common denominator, is there? What an unutterably stupid woman.

How do you get from here to government intervention, though? Via Roswell?

[SaligoBay]

What a wonderful thing freedom is - we fight wars etc to be free and not have Id cards etc  btu the good old Yanks defender of the free world and invaders of any one GWB does not like - but dont wear the wrong cloths -

It sounds very like French freedom (no, I don't want fries with that, thank you!).  Everyone meekly carries ID cards, and within this great new millennium, a T-shirt seller was prosecuted for trying to sell T-shirts with a "legalise cannabis" message on them.  Naughty boy! 

 

[Ty Korrigan]

I got banned from Angloinfo once when I logged on as 'Hugh Focker @ fockhugh@hotmail....

Very funny for a few days though!

Recently someone logged on as 'Hell' so the welcome page said 'A warm welcome to Hell'...Ha HA HA!

 

 

 

 

 

[Dick Smith]

"I got banned from Angloinfo once when I logged on as 'Hugh Focker @ fockhugh@hotmail....

Very funny for a few days though!"

Hilarious.

[Ty Korrigan]

OOH! Beardys gone all weirdy!

[Davies]

Woman thrown off flight for offensive T-shirt

 I'm of the opinion that 'Freedom' is often used as a convenience for those who wish to push the barriers of normal/decent behaviour a bit further and who moan when the barrier doesn't budge. Bit like 'tolerance' as in (a random example,)  "You neighbours with pets should just be more tolerant of my frequent firework displays"

Have to say I'm with Dick Smith on this one.

Another Dave

[Dick Smith]

"OOH! Beardys gone all weirdy!"

Brilliant! What coruscating wit. You must be so proud of yourself...

By the way, shouldn't that be 'Beardy's' - the 'has' is contracted.

[Alcazar]

<<Bit like 'tolerance' as in (a random example,)  "You neighbours with pets should just be more tolerant of my frequent firework displays">>

Poor example:  lots of pet owners are ALWAYS expecting others to be more tolerant, especially CAT owners

Going a bit off topic though, aren't we?

Alcazar

[Ty Korrigan]

Sorry Dick me old Cock...shouldn't post after a beer...

[Deimos]

[quote]James - no need to keep banging the same drum. This was clearly about offensive language on the tee shirt - and I would have objected to it, too. There's no need to be the lowest common denominator, i...[/quote]

We seem to live in an increasingly intolerant society. Assuming it is the T shirt variant I have seem the one questionable word can be seen all over the place in graffiti. The same F word was actually used by Mr. Cheney himself in the US senate (whilst addressing Mr. Leahy). Eric Idle wrote a marvellous song that uses the same word in virtually every line. It is a word in common use so I’m afraid the “objectionable language” case does not really hold. It is just a case of plain intolerance where people will object to anything they do not agree with.

Also, the objections (from other passengers) were NOT about the language but about it being disrespectful of the US President.

It is another good case where UK/US sensibilities are OTT. I note that lawyers are now involved, etc.

Disappointing (but maybe predictable) that the “pro-establishment” leap to the defence of Southwest Airlines. Although a minor case it is another way in which UK/US people’s freedoms to express their opinions about political leaders are being stopped. Other posts earlier in this (or other) threads mentioned mis-uses of laws to curtail people expressing their dissatisfaction with politicians. Another of many small steps to bring us all “into line”.

IAn

[Viv]

I do think it quite ironic ( in view of the posting on the tee shirt)  that the film 'meet the fockers' was being advertised in the UK on TV well before the watershed, and the clip that was shown was reiterating the 'pun' eg I hate those fockers.

Indeed, I know a UK teacher who was facing a dilemma as to what to say to kids in her class who repeated that particular line as technically it isn't an offensive word yet she was fully aware that they were exploiting a 'loophole' for want of a better word. 

I notice that the film is called something completely different in France simply because the 'joke' that is the American title and whole theme of film would probably be lost here, which must make it pretty strange viewing to the French!

[Poppy]

When I clicked to next and last page I thought I'd gone to a different topic.

Jan

 

[Renaud]

A classic thread, Logan says that he is sadly going back to the UK as it is easier to make a living there. This is discussed and most agree that France is pleasant to live in if you have a secured income (of whatever size).

 

Most agree that France has a burocratic, anti-entrepreneurs, anti-business culture and a place where the word of professionals is treated with the kind of deference that vanished some time ago in the UK. Britain however is regarded as having a deteriorating economy and standard of living, run by incompetents.

 

All good stuff and well argued on all sides.

 

Then as is the way with posts - we get a random nutty item about a George Bush protest (from which nobody emerges with any credit) and Dick Smith decides to bring order to the classroom. Inevitably the chaps sitting at the back of the class retaliate with a provocative insult … hey presto … we have the makings of a classic Living France free for all … where is Outcast when you need him?

 

(For the record like Dick Smith I have a beard, think about my pension and use a Mac – so pipe down you at the back!)

 

Still if you really want to take this thread off topic – how was it that Jenny Agutter managed to stay so chaste and U certificate whilst wearing so few rags in Logan’s run?

[Logan]

To try and return to topic for a moment.

An example of what really winds me up about France is a current problem I am having with my Notary. I am trying to do some business right now, the details are unimportant but it involves contracts to be registered with my notrary. I have been with him for years and done many deals with him. Does this make a difference - NO. Does this make him work any harder or quicker - NO. Does this make him get the paper work done sooner - NO. I prepared all the paers in anticipation of slowness and wanting to clinch the deal. Because I did it all for him he now has to repeat the process getting an identicle set of papers from the same sources. Now he's ******ed off for a weeks fishing! Result a months delay in getting contacts signed. It happens all the time trying to do business in this completely stupid and backward country. I have really had it. UK looks very fine to me. End of rant. 

[Dick Smith]

Thanks, Ty.

[Deby]

I am in the library and everyone is now looking at me laughing my head off. 

Liked the bit about Clean Air? What butterflies? (Chicfille) especially after it succeeded  a quite deep statement.

Logan,

The Notary issue - so typical, am so glad I do not have to deal with most of that daily malarchy (sp).

Deby

[Russethouse]

>>>Liked the bit about Clean Air? What butterflies? (Chicfille)<<<

I think it's all perspective, some of you will have seen the pic of our garden which we have working on every weekend since Easter - ( OK - we are slow workers ) We haven't been rained off once, both lots of helpers, one lot at the beginning and one lot at the end had a few hours rain disruption but nothing major. We get a very good selection of birds (despite the upheaval) Sparrows; hedge and house, blue tits, coal tits, great tits, green finch, gold-crest, robins, blackbirds, crows, nuthatch, sparrow hawk, wood pigeon and collard dove, oh and two types of woodpecker. We also see herons and red kite, although they don't land. We have numerous squirrels,also frogs, toads and newts, several types of dragon fly, butterflies;cabbage white,tortoiseshell and red admiral as well pond skaters and water boatmen.

Where is this wildlife haven ? About a mile from Reading town center in a back garden about 60ft x 40ft.

We tend to 'filter out' the less apealing aspects of surburban life because its what we've got, so we may as well ''stick a daffodil in our hats and get on with it''

Yes, I'm sure I would enjoy France too but you don't have to go abroad to have 'butterflies in the garden'

[Will]

As Logan directed me here from the 'not waving but drowning' topic in Finance, I thought I'd better reacquaint myself with this discussion.

I have to say I thoroughly agree with Logan, however much it might upset the anti-Blair brigade. Britain does look, from over here, more and more attractive. It's not the charges - I can just about cope with them, difficult as they are. It's the other frustrations, of which Logan's notaire story is a typical example (we've been there too, several times, with bank managers etc). To think we were promised a less stressful existence in France...

OK, if you are on a decent pension I can understand how it is a good life in France. I also go along with what Gay says.

There must be a way of combining the best of both countries.

Referring to the tangent at which this topic went off (how's that for a convoluted sentence, teachers?) I was watching the BBC Breakfast programme a week or two back, when there was a discussion about the offensive material freely available around everybody. The woman cast in the Mary Whitehouse role completely shot herslf in the foot when she said that there was a 9pm watershed before which one couldn't swear yet so many young people were walking around wearing T-shirts carrying an anagram of f***. Because it was a live programme the word was not censored - though it did apparently lead to rather a lot of complaints.

Dick - I have to agree with somebody on another forum who remarked that your current avatar makes you look exactly like that other cuddly beardy Francophile George East.

[GRT17]

"There must be a way of combining the best of both countries."

An established home and friends of many years, in the U.K. and a second home in France. It helps if one is retired or semi retired.

Gill

Edit

P.S.

A good command of both languages and good friends in both countries.

I agree with Gay, put on the "tourist eyes" in the U.K. and take a closer look.

[Russethouse]

Propably went over the top on the 'garden' theme. (close to my heart at present)

The doubt that I am the only one that seems to have a different pair of eyes when I go to France, things that I probably wouldn't even notice in the UK are embued with a 'lovliness' probably totally undeserved and unsung/unnoticed by natives. Its easy to get carried away with the 'lovliness' of it all, especially when property looks cheap.

The best reason to move to France is because you love it, but before you go try wearing your 'tourist eyes' at home.

[Logan]

I find myself in agreement with all your postings and it is very interesting to understand that frustrations and difficulties are not particular to me.

I moved to France in the early 1980's. I had always loved the country, it's people and the culture. I still do. I knew nothing then of the system and it's horrors. I disliked the Britain of Thatcher and felt the country was becoming nasty, greedy and selfish. I wanted a better future for my family.

I have now travelled full circle. Britain is probably still the same, perhaps worse but my understanding of what kind of system is needed to allow ordinary folks to make decent living is enlightened. I see how over regulation, constant intervention from the state and burdening people with massive taxation destroys human will and incentive.  France desperately needs freeing up from the State and the powerful vested interest groups, Unions et al. It can no longer compete in global markets. Competition is not going to go away, just create inroads into the economy. Unless this appalling economic decline is arrested France and the other over regulated countries face severe problems. 

I am reminded very much of the old fable of Nero fiddling whilst Rome burned. Chirac is fiddler in chief and his henchmen just sit around on their hands waiting their chance of power.

[Deimos]

More economic news (today) form the UK: “The number of people out of work and claiming benefits rose for the eighth month running in September, official figures showed today.

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said the claimant count, which takes in those receiving jobseeker's allowance, increased by 8,200 to 875,500 last month.

The figure has not increased for as many consecutive months since the economic slump of the early 1990s“

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1590398,00.html

Ian