Viv Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Sad for the Tour and the chap who came second....NOT for Landis [:@]I thought it was dodgy when he came back so convincingly after looking totally exhausted the day before.He was a team mate of Armstrong....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Viv, what significance is him being a team mate of Armstrong? Are you suggesting that Armstrong was also on drugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted July 27, 2006 Author Share Posted July 27, 2006 Far be it for me to suggest anything, but I think there is some is some controversy over whether he had taken / done something untoward when he won in 1999 which rumbles on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 It might just be simpler if the competitors where simply allowed totake the drugs. Then we could have the interest of seeing the drugscompanies pitted against one another, brandishing test tubs. Everythingcould be open and fair again then...and imagine the sponsorshipopportunities! Sport is dead. It's just about winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 [quote] Sport is dead. It's just about winning.[/quote]You reckon !! Sure it's about winning, always has been, never known many who want to be the loser, a runner up or 3rd even !Sport dead....far from it but I like the idea about drugs, that wouldbamboozle a few riders. I have to say though, it is widely acceptedthat the Tour is probably the most gruelling event a sportsman goesthrough, so with the associated pain that must inevitably be present,drugs must, or rather might, therefore be exepected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I'm not an expert but from what I've heard it does not add-up 100% (again, probably missed a lot though). After one day poor performance he "came back" and did brilliantly the next day and people are supposing this was due to the drugs. However, his A sample showed high levels of testosterone - a hormone which promotes muscle growth. I'm sure it cannot promote such muscle growth overnight so that one day "poor performance" next day "zooming ahead". Muscle growth takes a bit longer than a pill or two and a wait overnight.I often wonder why information like this is released before all required tests have been completed as, if the B sample shows no drugs - he has already been found guilty in the press.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Saw a report on French sports channel this morning - apparently Landis is now saying that he is given the injections for a glandular problem.My chum, who is an avid follower of cycling/races etc told me whilst watching the report that if he was using the drugs for medical problems, his team doctor would have to declare it in advance and therefore some sort of allowance would be made during the testing process.Sounds like somebody may have jumped the gun with an early report but nobody really seems to know at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I have to agree that this particular event (Tour de France) as was said by Miki (I think), has got to be one of the most difficult sporting events. Living here at the foot of Mt. Ventoux (literally on the route for the mountain), I see people of all ages, mostly men biking in 40 degree midday heat up the mountain. I look at them and wonder where their brains went. Most of them look in a terrible state, red faced and dripping in perspiration. The ambulances are out nearly every afternoon and as I see them, I figure they must be out to pick up another heat stroke victim.I always watch the Tour in amazement. I can't imagine a body being that fit without drugs. I realize some probably are and I have no idea what the implications of allowing drug use would do to the event. I'm sure that day will never officially come.Still hot as h ell here. They keep telling us we're going to get a thunderstorm and some rain, but it hasn't arrived yet.Who was it on here that has said that he need only visit a location to bring the rain with him? Well, we could use a visit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmto Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 [quote user="Deimos"]Muscle growth takes a bit longer than a pill or two and a wait overnight.[/quote]He was found to have an unually high level of testosterone, which would not cause muscle growth overnight but would effectively speed up recuperation, thus making him less tired than everybody else the next day. At least this is what a doctor was saying on the news yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddie Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 A French aquaintance told us his son had given up cycling because even at local level drugs were used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted July 28, 2006 Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 Perhaps it would be easier / fairer to tell them to take what they like.With or without drugs its still an amazing feat, but I do feel sorry for those that manage it unaided.A German TV company is threatening to boycott it next year with words to the effect that they want to see a sporting event not a pharmaceutical one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Floyd Landis himself in the sauce !!!! Sorry Keith Floyd ....Woops! may not be funny HAHAHA but then again the sun is quite hot .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozman Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Unfortunately drug use can lead to cyclists dieing during races. They simple over-strain their body while on the high of energy. I remember a British cyclist died on the Mount and he had taken drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 [quote user="Miki"][quote] Sport is dead. It's just about winning.[/quote]You reckon !! [/quote]Yeah...though actually I could put it a bit better: sport dies once itattracts big money. Then it becomes just another form of commerce. Thisdoes not necessarily make it less interesting to watch (F1 being anexception - that is completely mind-numbing and pointless. Mind you I'mnot sure that motor racing was ever sport. More of a pastime. LikeNintendo).Fortunately there are still some true sports, activities that havefailed to attract any significant financial backing. Ultimate frisbee,for example. While these are still played then, yes, sport is not yetquite dead.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 OK, you stick to snakes and ladders or even that other drug infestedsport, Yo-yo'ing ya hear..... and leave the real sport to us sportytypes [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 >>> ..... Fortunately there are still some true sports, activities that havefailed to attract any significant financial backing. ....<<<Tiddly Winks for one! and Bingo.... Can't think of anything more violent than a Tiddly Winks and Bingo session! What do they put in the Grannies cocoa?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I smell a rat here somewhere, just not sure where.It's fairly widely known that, not only do cyclists take performance enhancing drugs, but that they also take drugs to mask the presence of said drugs in urine/blood tests. And it's not just at international levels.So, did he take something to boost his testosterone levels (knowing that he'd be likely to be caught out), or did the masking drugs fail, or is there something else going on here?If you haven't yet read it, there is an excellent book by Tim Moore (French Revolutions) that covers the highs and lows and history of the tour de France rather nicely, written in a style that even non-sports lovers would appreciate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weliveinhope Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 [quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]Viv, what significance is him being a team mate of Armstrong? Are you suggesting that Armstrong was also on drugs?[/quote] Viv wouldn't be the first.Would you be so surprised if he had been?David Walsh spent a few years investigating Lance Armstrong and came up with some fairly convincing arguments to suggest that he was doping.The general belief seems to be that they're all at it, they couldn't endure the physical hammering if the weren't, but some are better at it than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted July 28, 2006 Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 Marco Pantani aka the pirate died at a young age and he was found to have taken some prohibited substances. It's not without its cost.Flo jo( runner) was another one who died young, ordinary average athlete one year, muscly and invincible the next. It was never proved that she was taking anything though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 [quote user="Cat 46"]I smell a rat here somewhere, just not sure where.It's fairly widely known that, not only do cyclists take performanceenhancing drugs, but that they also take drugs to mask the presence ofsaid drugs in urine/blood tests. And it's not just atinternational levels.So, did he take something to boost his testosterone levels (knowingthat he'd be likely to be caught out), or did the masking drugs fail,or is there something else going on here?If you haven't yet read it, there is an excellent book by Tim Moore(French Revolutions) that covers the highs and lows and history of thetour de France rather nicely, written in a style that even non-sportslovers would appreciate. [/quote]Part of the problem that sports authorities face is that the techniquesthey use to detect doping must be published. This is to ensure thatthey themselves cannot be accused of sharp practice. Once thetechniques are known then, yes, it is possible that masking could beused. Landis has now stated that he was receiving two medications -cortisone and an unspecified thyroid hormone. I have no idea whetherthese could mask abuse (remember that he has yet to be pronouncedguilty...) but I cannot credit that the race organisers can have beenkept in the dark about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Korrigan Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Tommy Simpson. Should we remember him as the rare British sporting hero he was or as another drug filled corpse...There is a monument on Ventoux to this man who died as a result of the stress of his sport and the cocktail of drugs that buoyed his success... Me... I stick to bananas, mineral water and the odd picon beer... Ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Recent events hint that innocent until proven guilty no longer applies.1. Basso and Ullrich out of Le Tour because they were under investigation.2. Kieran Fallon not allowed to pursue his career in UK because he was charged with race fixing.3. Landis' A test showed unusual levels of testosterone - he must now prove his innocence.I don't understand how cyclists can complete approx 3,500 km in 20 days, an average of nearly 200 km per day when you ignore the prologue and time trials without some of mother's little helper.JohnNot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted August 5, 2006 Author Share Posted August 5, 2006 So his second sample is also positive.Landis claimed that his body makes an excessive amount of testorone naturally [Www] in which case you think he would have brought this to the attention of the sports medical body years ago. Strange how he suddenly made a lot of it the day after it looked like he had lost the tour!Still it gives his lawyers something to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 [quote user="Diva Star"]So his second sample is also positive.Landis claimed that his body makes an excessive amount of testoronenaturally [Www] in which case you think he would have brought this tothe attention of the sports medical body years ago. Strange how he suddenly made a lot of it the day after it looked like he had lost the tour!Still it gives his lawyers something to do. [/quote]Cynic! Perhaps he really is some kind of male hormone machine! Has helost his hair yet? I'm often told (mostly by my thinning friends) thathair loss is due to high levels of testorone and that those of us whohave retained our flowing locks are just a bunch of nellies. I'venoticed that they are not citing any scientific papers though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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