Clair Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Funny that... I like or dislike people or attitudes or comments, but I don't judge anyone on where they were born...I am trying to make allowances for the generalisation in the above posts ("dislike the French", "the culprits are the French"), but I do find such sweeping comments rather unhelpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Thank you Clair, you beat me to it.These 'knockers' do get rather tedious after a while.The french, in general terms, are a lovely, gentle people. Treat them with contempt and you simply reap what you sow. Treat them as you would a friend and you're actions will be reciprocated. To the knockers, well,If you don't like it here, go somewhere else. Simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 [quote user="Clair"]Funny that... I like or dislike people or attitudes or comments, but I don't judge anyone on where they were born...I am trying to make allowances for the generalisation in the above posts ("dislike the French", "the culprits are the French"), but I do find such sweeping comments rather unhelpful.[/quote]Clair I think you are being admirably polite and restrained. "Unhelpful" was not the word which sprung to my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpernel Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 [quote user="Bugbear"]The french, in general terms, are a lovely, gentle people. Treat them with contempt and you simply reap what you sow. Treat them as you would a friend and you're actions will be reciprocate[/quote]You are talking about the French as individuals here, not as a nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 [quote user="pimpernel"][quote user="Bugbear"]The french, in general terms, are a lovely, gentle people. Treat them with contempt and you simply reap what you sow. Treat them as you would a friend and you're actions will be reciprocate[/quote]You are talking about the French as individuals here, not as a nation.[/quote]Thank for explaining to me what I'm talking about.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 And is not the one (nation) made up of the other (individuals)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Gluestick, thats the problem. People like yourself perpetuate this myth that the French, as a people, are 'generous', 'welcoming', 'helpful' and, here's the favourite...'charming'. Not ALL the time, and not everywhere!. Please excuse those of us who beg to differ...or DARE to differ. We only speak from experience[:)]Anyway. I am still here and will be until this place is sold. I only agreed to come here to allow the 'other half' to satisfy his long held dream to live here and own his own business. Now he knows better...you live and learn. And he certainly has. While I have found the locals to be friendly I would not include the description 'welcoming'. I have found life in rural France to be uninspiring and, frankly, bloody boring.Whilst I am happy for those who have come here and found their 'niche', and I envy them in some ways, it really pisses me off when those who have come here and not found their 'Shangri La' - and admit to such - are referred to as ingrates, or failures. Or are responsible for their own dissatisfaction. It either works or it dosen't; we have worked our backsides off here; we expected all the good things France has to offer and, in many cases, met with otherwise. Not our fault. But then France is made up of lots of 'fantastic' and just as much 'disappointing'. Depends where you are. But at least we gave it a go and got it out of our system.[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I have no problem with people expressing an opinion, but I have little tolerance for sweeping statements such as "the French this...", "the Irish that...", "the Americans are..." or "the Israelis don't..." [:@]I find individuals are "this or that", regardless of their nationality, and to apply a stereotype to a nation because you happen to have met a couple of individuals who fit the epithet says more about you than it does about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 [quote user="Jura"]Anyway. I am still here and will be until this place is sold. I only agreed to come here to allow the 'other half' to satisfy his long held dream to live here and own his own business. [/quote]At last, a single sentence that puts virtually everything you have posted into perspective.Thank you Jura. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 [quote user="Jura"]Gluestick, thats the problem. People like yourself perpetuate this myth that the French, as a people, are 'generous', 'welcoming', 'helpful' and, here's the favourite...'charming'. [/quote]To you a myth: to me, a reality.I am, sadly, only able to compare like for like.For some reason, or set of reasons, quite obviously, France doesn't suit you, Jura: that's fine.I do hope you both discover somewhere that does.Thus far, probably 99% of my wife and my experiences are wildly different from yours.Being known as a very cynical soul and deeply critical of facets of modern life which I feel fall short of acceptability, I do not accept that I am perpetuating a myth: merely speaking as I find.Nothing more: nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Head Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 The thread is an interesting insight into peoples perceptions of life outside of their native soil. Although I'm English I have no loyalty whatsoever to the UK, or to France or anywhere else for that matter, if I chose to live on a remote Scottish island or in the middle of New York I'd change and adapt. Life is whatever you want it to be, if the spirit and will are there then the rest will follow. For those who even allow the tiniest thought of failure to encroach in their lives...don't, you'll fail.Perhaps my solemn mind so fair,has brought me to this hole,It could be me, my sorry heart,that's thrown away my soul,Or maybe I just didn't care,I have this pinned up...it works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 ChrisI agree with what you say. Many will call me silly or shallow or even crazy but, when we came here to live, I had already made up my mind that I would like it here and I DO.We have to share some of our facilities with English neighbours and I told myself I'd like them, and I DO.Once you decide on something and you mean to succeed (because failure is NOT an option), then you make damn sure it works out.It's absolutely true that your life is what you make it. Sure, things can be hell (and very often are) and life can throw a lot of the brown smelly stuff your way when you are least able to cope, but it is the WAY you cope that makes your life good or bad.Look for the good (in people, in circumstances) and you find it in buckets; look for the bad and you'll find shedloads of that too. You attract to yourself a lot of the things that happen to you.It starts and finishes with you; PERIOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 If you 'have' to make a go of things I can understand what you are saying sweet 17, but is there really so much shame in admitting that you don't actually like somewhere or that it's not the perfection its presented as - especially if you didn't want to go there in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 [quote user="sweet 17"]You attract to yourself a lot of the things that happen to you.[/quote]No, I can't agree with that. I really can't. I wish you hadn't said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Tresco, I don't mean to upset you and I, too, wish now that I hadn't said it. If it's any help, I have had some pretty horrendous things happen to me in my life and I'm still trying to work out whether I am to blame for some of them.I ought perhaps to exclude things like Acts of God and suchlike that hit people out of the blue and, of course, they then have no choice about them.Sorry, truly![:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 [quote user="sweet 17"]Tresco, I don't mean to upset you and I, too, wish now that I hadn't said it. [/quote]I'm not upset [:)] but I do think it's worth thinking about what you said before? It's the kind of thing that trips off the tongue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie girl Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 IMHO i think we all want the best for ourselves and our children, if still young enough to come with us. But for some, and for all different reasons things change, or they just decide it wasn`t for them after all. Thats ok then, its not bad or a failure to decide to go back or even go on to somewhere else? it just proves we`ve all got choices to make at different times in our lives. If we make the wrong choice then we do something else, but it doesn`t mean we have all made the wrong decision to come here, or to stay here even. I`m just happy to take life one day at a time and if in a couple of years i am fed up or bored with france then i may move on,,,,,,,,,,,, if i can afford to? But hopefully i`ll still be here for a long time yet because i like it here. [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Tresco, I take your point entirely and I am relieved I didn't upset you.Scooby, I don't talk about shame at all in not "succeeding", however you want to define "succeeding". It's just that I feel strongly that if you are unhappy about something, then you need to change that something. If you're not happy in France, then you SHOULD go off somewhere else. What doesn't help is if you stick around and then whinge endlessly about how horrible it all is.Everything is just so much worse if you keep reminding yourself how bad it all is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpernel Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 I think that threads such as these can also be split down to people who have retired to France and people who have come to work in France. Even the French complain about the obstacles that are put in front of anyone with any entrepenurial spirit. People who move here and start businesses and especially if they wish to employ will come up against far more frustration than someone who rises at 10 has a few glasses of wine, potters about in the garden , sits down in the evening and watches english television before going to bed after another hard day.As has been said the French people are lovely warm ,welcoming people who like people rather than belongings but they are also the people who create a beauracracy that has to be experienced to be believed. They are the people who are still working to systems and laws put in place by Napolean. Sarkozy is making an attempt to drag them kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Because it's not just some of the people on here who think the French have a problem. It's a lot of the French as well ,which is why Sarkozy got voted in.To say that if you don't like France go and live somewhere else is ignoring the problems that France has. Again,I'm referring to France the nation rather than French individuals or geographic France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 [quote user="Jura"] I have found life in rural France to be uninspiring and, frankly, bloody boring. [/quote]The rose-tinted-specs brigade on here make me laugh, but I find your attitude equally bizarre.I'd love to know what you were expecting in rural France for it not to be "bloody boring".Just a short list will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 [quote user="pimpernel"] To say that if you don't like France go and live somewhere else is ignoring the problems that France has. [/quote]No, it doesn't. Its a sensible alternative to constantly moaning about something that no individual can actually really change.Taking the UK as an example, we left simply because we didn't like what was happening to 'our' country. That said, we are and will always be english and we still love and miss many aspects of life in the UK. The problem for us was that we personally felt that the 'bad stuff' in the UK outweighed the good. (note that this is our personal opinion)For many individuals unhappy with their current situation, moaning and wingeing solves nothing.One alternative answer, the one I suggested, would be to simply 'vote with your feet'. For some, of course, they are happy to spend their life moaning. The problem with that is that they will wake up one morning on their death-bed thinking, 'well, what a waste that was'.Happy, most of the time.........................................[:)]ps: I do agree with you that retiring to france is a completely different 'ball-game' to moving here to work. We are retired here and thankfully, can live (just) on my small occupational pension. If we were still in the UK we would need to be on some form of income support.Says it all really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerfeet Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 Picking up on what others have said , I started this thread because of my frustration about the new health rules , there is nothing we can do about it , signing a protest does nothing.I still love France so I will not be voting with my feet , but I can vote with my wallet . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 I guess if not giving your trade to the local guy struggling to make a living and coping with bureaucracy just like you, , makes you feel good, or helps you become part of the local community, so be it.Isn't it just a tiny bit petty ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpernel Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 [quote user="Bugbear"][quote user="pimpernel"] [quote user="Bugbear"]The french, in general terms, are a lovely, gentle people. Treat them with contempt and you simply reap what you sow. Treat them as you would a friend and you're actions will be reciprocate[/quote]You are talking about the French as individuals here, not as a nation.[/quote]Thank for explaining to me what I'm talking about..................[/quote] Sorry I wasn't trying to explain to you what you were talking about. I was just trying to point out that there is a difference.[:$] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerfeet Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 Yes RH I admit it is pettyBut what the French are doing to thousand of British people who have invested many thousands of pounds in France is a lot more than petty.You do not realise how angry this makes me feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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