How do you feel about France now ?

[tigerfeet]

With all that's gone on re health care .

Me I'm going to have my own little protest , If  I have to phi , it will be a UK company , next car I get will not be a French one , if I need jobs doing I will seek out British tradesmen.

hit them in the pocket , how about you ?

[Bugsy]

Absolutely fine with me, thank you.

[chrisb]

or perhaps a sensible solution, if you've reached that level of dissatiscation with "them" would be to consider whether your future is really in thier country?

[Eos]

[quote user="tigerfeet"]

With all that's gone on re health care .

Me I'm going to have my own little protest , If  I have to phi , it will be a UK company , next car I get will not be a French one , if I need jobs doing I will seek out British tradesmen.

hit them in the pocket , how about you ?

[/quote]

Without being smart, surely you will pay the relevant taxes to the French authorities regardless of what car you buy or fuel you use in it, as will the tradespeople whose goods and services you employ?

[Anton Redman]

Has not moved my attitude one iota. I knew what I was getting into. Still very upset with the farce of reply to the single Parlimentry question on this plus a compete inability to reciprocate or retaliate. I knew I was in an unfunded pay as you go systemin the UK. Anybody who voted Labour in 1945 knew they were signing up to a pay as you go system with no actuarial funding of benefits. The problem is understandibly a system which is underfunded has taken one step about its position but the UK has still got it head in the sand with a sad consequence for other parts of its annatomy

[tigerfeet]

[quote user="chrisb"]or perhaps a sensible solution, if you've reached that level of dissatiscation with "them" would be to consider whether your future is really in thier country?
[/quote]

you sound like one of the smug ones who this does no effect , not so easy to up and go after selling up in the uk to now find the goal posts have changed.

[tigerfeet]

[quote user="Eos"]
Without being smart, surely you will pay the relevant taxes to the French authorities regardless of what car you buy or fuel you use in it, as will the tradespeople whose goods and services you employ?
[/quote]

seams I am just like the french , not thought it through [;-)]

[Iceni]

A Pyrrhic victory is still a victory.

John trying to sound like Goebbels 

not

[Scooby]

The recent health changes have echoes of the UK state pension debacle for those emigrees who moved to none EU countries such as Canada and Australia.  Friends of ours moved to Canada about 20 years ago after having worked full time in the UK for the preceding 20 - 25 years.  They now face the prospect of working until they are 75 because they can't afford to retire.  The 20+ years of NI contributions paid while they were in the UK have been 'frozen' at the pension rate payable in 1982...which is a pittance.

After seeing them struggling to continue working the long hours demanded in Canada (60+ hours a week is quite normal) - despite ill health  decided us (amongst other things) against a permanent move to France. The risk of becoming part of a vulnerable and marginalised group either in the UK or France wasn't a risk we were prepared to take.  The detail differs, but the rationale is the same - economic pressures at home / away together with an easy target group.  Like the Canadian, South African and Australian pensioners, the UK emigrees in France don't carry much clout at home or away.  So not a big vote loser either here or in France.

[mint]

Succinct and to the point, Scooby.  There are no guarantees in life and there are only the 2 certainties of death and taxes (whoever said that first)[:(]

[raindog]

I earn my living here so it hasn't changed the way I feel about France one way or the other.

Must say, I feel for people if they really have to sell up and move back to the uk because of this tho.[:(]

[Sunday Driver]

The proposed revisions to the healthcare rule that have been indicated by the DSS will mean that at worst, only those 'inactives' currently in possession of an E106 and who are in good health will be temporarily disadvantaged.  Even then, they will only need to obtain PHI cover for around three years, the premiums for which will be largely offset by not being obliged to pay their 8% plus mutuelle.

So, unless they're already living on the breadline, I can't really see a mass exodus over this.... 

 

[tigerfeet]

But SD ,if you have an existing illness you can not get PHI

[Russethouse]

From what I have read about the revised rules (those we are awaiting confirmation of) you will be able to appeal and possible get CMU cover if you have an existing condition.

[Panda]

Hi

Whilst I don't agree with all of the sentiments expressed on this thread I have to say that I feel more 'at risk' because of this situation which does not affect me in the least.  I guess it's the way it came about, it makes me feel less sure of the future somehow, I know there are a few of my aquaintances who feel the same way and so whilst it may not affect many it has still impacted how people feel. 

As Scooby has said you are in a very small minority and this situation has really brought that feeling home.

I really do expect it to have a knock on affect on many things for sometime to come.

Panda

[Colonel Mustard]

I am a postwar baby-boomer, and all my life have come to expect a system of health and social care that would look after me if I were ill, unemployed, disabled, etc. It has been obvious for some time now that the UK can no longer afford the welfare state it set up after the war - a conclusion the French have also reached. Increasingly, countries are tightening up access to their healthcare systems, restricting and rationing what is available under those systems, and cutting back on care for the elderly, while the message for younger people is that they will have shoulder a much greater share of their own pension provision in the future. I, for one, have had a comfortable life so far, but I don't know how much longer I can expect that to continue. All gravy trains will eventually hit the buffers. Happy 2008!

[Gastines]

As of today I still have an accepted Carte Vitale and my wife also has her cover, so hopefully no problems for us that we are aware of. The problem I had in the UK regarding Private Health Insurance was always the same. Asthma/previous heart damage, no cover at any price. The UK Government have been advocating for years that you should take out PHI but they forgot that they,thePHI companies, are there to make a profit. Anything they can do to hive you off to the NHS they do. Why in the UK they didn't increase the amount you had to pay in ,years ago, I've never understood. It now appears that they intend to limit the NHS doctor and hospital services to non=paying immigrants. Virtually unworkable I believe but shutting the stable door etc comes to mind. It seems that the UK Health Minister might be getting some ideas from France.

For those who have to take out a PHI, perhaps a block from the Forum might get a discount? Surely several thousand taking new business to a company might get a discounted deal?

Regards ans Bonne Chance.

[Wendy]

Tigerfeet, re: your op; we no longer use French accountancy firms, we especially avoid those who advertise 'we serve the english speaking community'. Been there, done that, still wearing the scars.

We do not drive a French make of car or use French Insurance firms. Once again avoided those who advertise 'we serve the english speaking community'. Been there, done that, still wearing the scars.

The local French tradesmen will not do a job for under 500 euro's. We use an excellent Dutch electrician located 45 minutes away from us in Olet (can highly recommend this guy).We do our own plumbing.

Basically we blacklist any tradesman who refuses to do emergency work on a Sunday...even though we ask them to name their price to attend. Funny how all on our blacklist are French.

 

 

 

 

 

[raindog]

Hi Jura, just a question - and it's not meant to be rude or aggressive, it's a serious question.[:)]

Why do you continue to live in France if you dislike it so much?

[cooperlola]

[quote user="raindog"]Hi Jura, just a question - and it's not meant to be rude or aggressive, it's a serious question.[:)]
Why do you continue to live in France if you dislike it so much?
[/quote]I've been itching to ask that for a long time. I think many of us would be interested in the answer.

[Ron Avery]

Perhaps the OP should vent his anger at the real culprits here, those who have kept under the radar, not paying taxes or health care contributions and/or not declaring income and savings etc so as to claim CMU mutuelle and not pay social charges.

This action has to be seen from the French prespective, there has been loads of articles over the past few years in the French press about "les anglais" scroungers with the restored chateau, the pool and the new 4 x 4 who have no income and get free healthcare, (the chemist knows which CMU you are on).  Also in the frame are those who let out the pile throughout the summer to "friends" who never pay any rent ( or more accurately any money that changes hands in France or is declared in France anyway).

If the UK government did what the French are doing to control immigrants and make them pay their way, all the Torygraph readers would be hurt in the rush to publish the links to the article.  The truth is those who are going to end up hurt here are those who do pay their way and have done things properly for the benefit of their adopted country and are now going to be penalised because of the scroungers, there is no other word for them,  who have come here in larger numbers than many would like to think. 

[Gastines]

Perhaps the answer to JURA'S problem may lie in the manner he/she deals with tradespeople?

When we had a plumbing problem that I was unable to fix,a local plumber,French, picked from the phone book, came next morning ,with an assistant,did the job in about 20mins and charged us 25euros. He had the skill and the correct  tools for the job. As I used to charge £25min call out for a carpet job 15 years ago,I thought it was amazingly cheap and done properly. Several times when asking a neighbour if he knew of a tradesperson to do something I can't deal with, he has done the job,no charge.Now we don't like to ask him without insisting on some form of payment. Recently I asked to have some new wooden gates made and fitted,I thought this would be an opportunity to pay him some money. He asked me to dig the holes for the posts before a weeks trip to UK., on our return we found posts/gates and base all fitted,a very neat job, on asking how much,the gates were FREE , excellent hardwood gates from a client's house where he'd just changed,after a year, to electric sliding openers. We did spend several hours on Saturday loading apples in the masher and then the press for him, so perhaps give and take works quite well rather than complaining.

Regards.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="raindog"]Hi Jura, just a question - and it's not meant to be rude or aggressive, it's a serious question.[:)]
Why do you continue to live in France if you dislike it so much?
[/quote]I've been itching to ask that for a long time. I think many of us would be interested in the answer.[/quote]

As I have commented previously, JR, there would seem to be a number of members herein who take a sort of perverse delight at slagging off France and the French!

Personally, I have always found them to be charming and extremely helpful: far more so than most "Tradespeople" and major shops in the South East of England, I must say.

As a ready example of this, on our last short trip, Nord Pas de Calais was hit, like most of France by a sudden Siberian cold spell! I urgently needed some more Mazot for the Pôele. Not having a cuve, at present (for various reasons the chauffage centrale has still not been installed), and I thus normally collect my heating oil in bidons. 

Wrong No longer! Can only be supplied bulk: I thought.

The very next day, a huge tanker arrived from the main oil supplier and kindly pumped 75 litres into my bidons.

The driver, a charming middle-aged  Frenchman even insisted on carrying them back into the garage for me.

This, I've found, is pretty typical.

The only real exception is the lady I nicknamed Madame Citron, who owns our local newsagents-tabac. But since she is invariably the same with the French too, it can't be me! That said, I have started a personal campaign to make her smile: thus far she's managed a sort of tiny grin!

Practically, when we first considered France (against Spain, Cyprus, Greek Islands etc), we carried out pretty thorough analysis of as many of the Upsides and Downsides as possible and spoke, at length to a number of dear friends and one in particular a retired Advocat, totally bi-lingual who has lived and worked in France for many years.

Of course, France is not Shangri La: but then nowhere is on this planet. On balance, for us, France offered the best mix of good and bad with the good outweighing the bad in terms of our preferred lifestyle and habits.

On this issue (And I do believe that in time, those non-French real residents who have adopted the correct route to fiscal residence etc will be taken back into the system, owing to EU and UK Government pressure), I have to agree totally with Ron.

I know far too many Brits who moved to France well before retirement and circumnavigate the system in far too many devious ways.

 

[tigerfeet]

some interesting replies

I still feel the culprits are the French , when I got my CV 18 months ago they did not warn me when it ran out I would be without health cover.(because the rules at that time were that I would be able to join )

It is the French who have given some people 6 months warning , but only given me 4 weeks notice.

But it is good to have a rant , and as gluestick just said the good in France far outweighs the bad.

[pimpernel]

[quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="raindog"]Hi Jura, just a question - and it's not meant to be rude or aggressive, it's a serious question.[:)]
Why do you continue to live in France if you dislike it so much?
[/quote]I've been itching to ask that for a long time. I think many of us would be interested in the answer.[/quote]

I think from reading Jura's post He/she? is not complaining about France but the French. There can be many reasons for living in France and even more for disliking the French as a nation.