Smoking ban in a few weeks in restaurants, cafés and so on

[Just Katie]

What we have found in the UK was that the non smokers who said whoppeee we can now go to the pub, did not go and, some of the smokers stayed away in protest.  However, I think they are slowly coming back.

Even during my smoking days, I embraced the ban and, I believe most smokers do.

[Sprogster]

Apparently, the numbers of bars and cafes in France are in terminal decline along with national average levels of alcohol consumption, due in the main to the clampdown on drink driving and a permitted limt of just one unit, which is half that of the UK.

Also to blame is France's growing love affair with fast food, as evidenced by the fact that France is McDonalds fastest growing market in Europe!

 

 

[Ford Anglia]

[quote user="TWINKLE"]

I went to Spain in September and the cafés and bars were full of families with children eating and drinking in a smoke free atmosphere.  The same was happening when I went to Wales a few weeks ago. [/quote]

Same here, UK: we pub quiz weekly and it's so much nicer now.

[quote user="TWINKLE"]Somebody mentioned 5 pubs closing a week in Britain I think - surely that's got a lot to do with dirt cheap booze that's being sold in British hypermarkets?[/quote]

No pubs closing around here. In fact THREE MORE have opened here in the last three weeks. Pub quiz audiences aren't down, and the local rag reports no unrest by local publicans, restaurant owners etc.

 

[Thibault]

Interestingly there was a pub/restaurant in Horsham which went non-smoking before the UK ban came in.  Every time we visited, it was always full.  The smokers sat at outside tables, whatever the weather.[:)]

[Cendrillon]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20071223/thl-lifestyle-france-health-tobacco-3bf5dbc_1.html

[Dick Smith]

The last line sums it up, "some people sulked for a bit, but they got used to it."

[woolybanana]

How will ladies of the night be policed if smoking at work or on the job is banned? Will they have to move to another bit of pavement for a quick fag? What happens if they are approached during this time? Would they then be in contravention of the law? Or would they have to return to their designated bit of pavement, clean their lungs, and then reply to the client? Could they complain about the presence of say office workers who have just popped out for a quick fag and are temporarily sharing the same bit of pavement? This after all would be smoking in their work area and they would be subject to passive smoking.

Would they have to refuse customers who have a fag in hand?

The law has just not been thought through properly you see.[6]

[Wilko]

Hi

This issue really pisses me off. I have no argument with the fact that smoking kills, like a prat I am an addict. However I do not think that govenment is there to tell me where I can and cannot smoke, I feel that this is an issue for the individual who owns the premises /bar/resto etc. This is an individual liberty and should squarely rest on the shoulders of the proprietor of the bar resto etc. ie We are a non smoking/ smoking bar/resto, YOU have the choice. I don't smoke therefore I won't go in there. This is  something that is an easy vote winner for any government,  there are more non smokers, they, the governments,  have all spent our lifetimes doing mostly sweet FA, , and find this is something that wins votes without having to do anything positive, irrespective of it being in France or the  UK. 

My Wife, a non smoker, remarked that when this happens  France will not smell the same. She said when you arrive at the Gard du Nord off Eurostar it is the smell of tobacco that you makes you realise that we are in France !!

This law is akin to something  North American, in it s it self no bad thing, however it infringes both the peronal liberty of the smoker and the freedom of choice of the patron of the premise. It is a cheap vote winner at the end of the day.............and that is all. It will change France for ever,  and for that to happen from US pressure is abominable !!

PS check out " passive smoking kills " on the internet. The do gooders that initially paid for this study, for 15 years, stood down some 5 years ago, as no proof could be found, the study was further financed by the smoking lobby who have found there is  NO PROOF that passive smoking kills, including Roy Castle.

A happy Xmas to you all, both smokers and non smokers.

Rgds Wilko

[Quillan]

[quote user="Cendrillon"]http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20071223/thl-lifestyle-france-health-tobacco-3bf5dbc_1.html[/quote]

Edit - Sorry I should say I am talking about France and am talking about per year.

So 66,000 people die directly of smoking.

5,000 people die of passive smoking (that's the same amount of people who die in road accidents in France).

Theres around 66,742,000 living in France.

So about 0.01% of the population die directly of smoking and about 0.0075% of the population die indirectly of smoking. The way people whinge you would expect far higher figures.

About 23% of the French population smoke so whilst in a minority they give 9.4 Billion Euros a year to the French government which is a lot of money and far outstrips the cost of treating people who smoke either directly or indirectly.

So I think that not having bars and restaurants where we can smoke, away from non smokers is an infringement of our civil liberties and human rights.

Sources

http://population-of.com/en/France/

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/16/arts/blume.php

http://www.eubusiness.com/Transport/060103170350.5fohjs63

Ac ne forte roges, quo me duce, quo lare tuter,
Nullius addictus iurare in verba magistri.

[woolybanana]

Quillan, why are you quoting Greek at us.

Anyway there is a real problem with the Tabacs which are also bars. Seems stooopid to ban smoking there.

[Weedon]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

How will ladies of the night be policed if smoking at work or on the job is banned? Will they have to move to another bit of pavement for a quick fag? What happens if they are approached during this time? Would they then be in contravention of the law? Or would they have to return to their designated bit of pavement, clean their lungs, and then reply to the client? Could they complain about the presence of say office workers who have just popped out for a quick fag and are temporarily sharing the same bit of pavement? This after all would be smoking in their work area and they would be subject to passive smoking.

Would they have to refuse customers who have a fag in hand?

The law has just not been thought through properly you see.[6]

[/quote]

Are they allowed to smoke once they get into your car or do they have to stick their head out of the window?

[woolybanana]

Grey area. And what about estate cars? Or even 4x4's which are apparently the main customers.[6]

[powerdesal]

The UK anti-smoking law has some very strange points:- If you work from home and, say, your workstation is in your sitting room, it is classed as a work place and you cannot smoke there. You must also have a no smoking sign. If however, you walk into your kitchen you may smoke even whilst preparing food.

I have no idea if the sitting room reverts to a non-workplace after working hours but if it does, who decides the hours?

Obviously not policeable at all.

Also, if your house is visited by a council snooper, sorry, council inspector, and you answer the door whilst smoking, the council person cannot enter. They can ask you to desist but you have the right to refuse. Weird or what?

[bedders]

I'm not sure if this has been touched upon, as I have not read the complete thread but,

inmates are allowed to smoke in prison, and submariners are allowed to smoke in submarines, both government establishments

 

Merry Christmas to one & all.

 

 

 

[Cendrillon]

"inmates are allowed to smoke in prison, and submariners are allowed to smoke in submarines, both government establishments"

 

yes, well they would find it difficult to pop out for a quick ciggy wouldn't they!

[Georgina]

What I really have difficulty with, are the smoking mums (six or more every morning) standing at the gates where the kids go in.  I really have to bite my tongue, do you think this will stop next year??? The kids complain that they throw the tabs in their direction sometimes without even looking.[:)]  Well if I were in England ......[6] grrrr

Georgina

 

[Dick Smith]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

Quillan, why are you quoting Greek at us.

Anyway there is a real problem with the Tabacs which are also bars. Seems stooopid to ban smoking there.

[/quote] It's Quillan's response to my tag...

[Quillan]

[quote user="Georgina"]

What I really have difficulty with, are the smoking mums (six or more every morning) standing at the gates where the kids go in.  I really have to bite my tongue, do you think this will stop next year??? The kids complain that they throw the tabs in their direction sometimes without even looking.[:)]  Well if I were in England ......[6] grrrr

Georgina

[/quote]

Spot on there, why people who smoke do so round children is beyond me and smoking when pregnant or round baby's is even worse. It's one of those stupid things that some smokers do that give a bad impression of all smokers.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Cendrillon"]

"inmates are allowed to smoke in prison, and submariners are allowed to smoke in submarines, both government establishments"

 

yes, well they would find it difficult to pop out for a quick ciggy wouldn't they!

[/quote]

Thought they (prison inmates) were there to be punished.

[Kitty]

I worry about the number of teenagers that smoke in France.  What's the point of trying to get adults to stop if a new generation is getting addicted?

My daughters are at a lycee boarding school and they tell me that only a handful do not smoke.  There is peer group pressure to smoke and judging from the cigarette stubs at the school gate, this is a major problem.

Are the French government trying to do anything to prevent teenagers getting addicted to smoking?

 

[Iceni]

[quote user="Cathy"]

Are the French government trying to do anything to prevent teenagers getting addicted to smoking?

[/quote]

Are the parents trying to do anything to prevent teenagers getting addicted to smoking? Or, as in England, are parents absolved from any responsibility for the fruits of their loins ?

John

not

[Kitty]

[quote user="Iceni"][quote user="Cathy"]

Are the French government trying to do anything to prevent teenagers getting addicted to smoking?

[/quote]

Are the parents trying to do anything to prevent teenagers getting addicted to smoking? Or, as in England, are parents absolved from any responsibility for the fruits of their loins ?

John

not

[/quote]

You are right, John.  Looking after children (or teenagers) starts in the home. I just think that something needs to be done at government level to attempt to stem the tide of French teenage smoking.  The British government has campaigns from time to time (e.g. targetting newsagents' practices) and, judging from the fewer teenagers that smoke in the UK than in France, perhaps it's working?

Three of my four children are teenagers, who have been educated in both countries, and they all tell me that smoking is endemic amongst their peers in France whilst in the UK, teenagers of course smoke but there are fewer smokers, those that do smoke less and they are more secretive about it because they know that it's not approved of.

 

 

[Just Katie]

John, since when have teenage children listened to their parents? [:)]

Seriously all we can do is guide them and outline the consequences  of their actions and choices.  Many of them rebel.  I take it you are a gentleman of a certain age.  I wonder if you ever visited Brighton in your youth?  If I had been born, I think I would have gone. [:-))]

Anti smoking campaigns in 'teenage lingo' and presented by icons is the most effective method I can think of. 

Anyway, pubs in my neck of the woods seem to have made a complete recovery from the non smoking shock and the 'sulkers' are back enjoying their pint and, getting used to standing in the rain every half hour or so. [:D]

[Scooby]

[quote user="Iceni"]

Are the parents trying to do anything to prevent teenagers getting addicted to smoking? Or, as in England, are parents absolved from any responsibility for the fruits of their loins ?

[/quote]

I'm probably going to start a back lash here but - between the ages of 0 to 12 (maybe 13 for some children), parents exert 90% influence and  friends / general peer group / the media exert the remaining 10%.  By the time children reach 14+ that position has reversed.

At that stage you just hope and pray that something of the values you tried to instill have been retained and stand by to pick up the pieces...

[curlyp]

[quote user="Tourangelle"]So are you looking forward to it, or dreading it?  Although smoking has been banned in the work place since February it is coming into force in restaurants, bar, cafes and so on in January.  There was a report about it on France info this morning, saying that it is only really in the tabacs that they think there might be a problem.  Personally, the big change for me was February and most of the restaurants I go to are non- smoking already.
[/quote]

Has the ban come into effect in the cafes, bars and restaurants in France, and if so can one sit outside and smoke?