Scooby Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Outlook 'bleak' for France Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Yeh, but at least it looks like Sarko is actively working with the industries in France - the UK government seem to be putting more money into the bankers who got us in to this mess - it would have been better to give every family in the Uk £100k - then we wouldn't need them and it might be a lot cheaper for the government! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 [quote user="Scooby"]Outlook 'bleak' for France[/quote]Bleak?I think it would be bleak if the governement did nothing. I see the fact that they are doing something as quite the opposite of what you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Compared to the UK, I'd say the opposite..........................."About 20bn euros will be added to the public debt."Compare that to what Gorgon has added to the UKs debt and its not very much at all. NS has at least had the sense to put the money into industry and commerce unlike the british government who have simply given it to the bloody banks, the very people who got it so wrong in the first place.Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velcorin Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Here's the other side of the arguement.There are 2 problems with Sarkozy intervening in the corporate sector. Firstly EU competition policy, should Renault really be saved when there is great over capacity in European car production, other than for, purely, national pride?. Secondly where on the national balance sheet these "assets" are placed. Normally the countries declare Gold and Foreign Currency Reserves as national assets, however France also incude it's state shareholdings on it's balance sheet to the ECB, no other country does this. (I've looked for the ECB figures, but can't find them maybe GaintPanda can find them, if he's around), they really are quite funny in a cynical way. Countries like Germany and Italy have lots of Gold, France practically none, but it kindly offers it's shareholdings in Renault (down 90% in 12 months http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/shares/1/15145/twelve_month.stm ), it offers EdF (down 50% http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/shares/1/35506/twelve_month.stm). If France is truthful, it's lost something like EUR 30billion on these "investments".Why should my taxes bail out car companies who make cars which noboby will buy at a true market value? Why should the French state also take onto it's National Debt EUR XXXbillionsof pension obligations, to be funded by my taxes? Example, EdF has a pension fund of EUR 2Billion for 250K workers(!), in the UK BT has GBP 46billion for 110K workers, and that's not considered enough. Call me Mr Pedantic, but I doubt the French workers are expecting miniscule pensions. In fact EdF spends more on the staff welfare (communes de vacance) than on pension provision.The biggest scandel to my mind though is the lack of media exposure of these glaring problems. French people know the problems, but the media never talks about them, within my wife's family there is deep resentment and concern (terror?) regarding what has happened in France over the last 20 years, and they openly discuss it, why does not the media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 [quote user="velcorin"] Normally the countries declare Gold and Foreign Currency Reserves as national assets, however France also incude it's state shareholdings on it's balance sheet to the ECB, no other country does this. (I've looked for the ECB figures, but can't find them maybe GaintPanda can find them, if he's around), they really are quite funny in a cynical way. Countries like Germany and Italy have lots of Gold, France practically none, [/quote]I don't think the UK has much left after Gorgons sell-off blunders HERE[:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 What seems to have been missed in the government bailout package is that other banks and building societies are picking up the tab via the financial services compensation scheme - regardless of their size and their role in the current crisis. What also seems to have been missed is that income generating assets, devalued for accounts purposes (by IAS39), have been sold at the governments instruction by the nationalised banks - at a real economic loss. There is a lot of government spin by GB et al on their support for the banking sector and the actions they have taken.As an aside - if you read further down the article, France has significantly higher unemployment figures than the US - which in the current climate is hardly a sound position. Re your above post Bugsy - totally agree with you - selling gold at this precise moment is gross stupidity. Even the most naive economics student knows that in a financial crisis gold is going up and to advertise the sale - well it is beyond belief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegwini Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Since Gordon has spent the next FOUR years UK tax revenue the UK is in more of a mess than France. No 'boom and bust' !???GB as chancellor was bad enough for 10 years, and NO improvement as PM !Tegwini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJR Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 The Pound has depreciated significantly as against most other currencies recently including the Euro and Dollar and this has only happened because Gordon Brown and his ilk have been printing money as they do in Africa on a massive scale.Foolishly issuing Sterling Bonds where there is no demand in the Financial Markets. This means that the UK economy is not being seen as a good bet long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 [quote user="tegwini"]Since Gordon has spent the next FOUR years UK tax revenue the UK is in more of a mess than France. No 'boom and bust' !???GB as chancellor was bad enough for 10 years, and NO improvement as PM !Tegwini[/quote]Gordon will not be happy until the Uk resembles an LS Lowry painting. Surely there must be an assasin some where. Cost a lot less than GB cost us so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Zoff Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Well you have to concede that Gordon got half of it right when he promised no more boom and bust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 You mean it's just boom as in "Boom! Boom!", it's a joke, got it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted December 10, 2008 Author Share Posted December 10, 2008 [quote user="CJR"].Foolishly issuing Sterling Bonds where there is no demand in the Financial Markets. [/quote]This doesn't sit with the frantic scrabbling of the banks to acquire gilts in the SLS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5-element Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 [quote user="sweet 17"]You mean it's just boom as in "Boom! Boom!", it's a joke, got it?[/quote]It's OK Sweet 17, I am laughing at your joke, even if nobody else seems to.[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Did anyone see PM's question time today, it was a delicious schadenfreude moment [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 [quote user="velcorin"] Countries like Germany and Italy have lots of Gold, France practically none, [/quote]Well, not strictly true......................."The United States currently holds 8,133 tons of gold, Germany has 2,422tons, France has 2,710 tons and Japan 765 tons. **Britain currently has 315tons". [:-))]**after Gorgon sold 400 tons and lost the UK about 3.5 billion pounds................... Prudent, prudent my a*se!!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Zoff Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Prude nut Gordon strikes again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnip Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 The British old age pensioner must be feeling the pinch if his state pension comes from the UK ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 [quote user="ErnieY"]Did anyone see PM's question time today, it was a delicious schadenfreude moment [:D][/quote]Report here[:D][:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Chris Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Lordy, it's Gordy - saviour of all the world !!Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Zoff Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 The really scary thing is that, just as Tony believed for a while that he was doing God's work as PM, Gordy believes he's Clark Kent. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he had a Superman outfit at home.Is it a plane, is it a bird? No .... it's ... SuperBrown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 [quote user="Alan Zoff"]The really scary thing is that, just as Tony believed for a while that he was doing God's work as PM, Gordy believes he's Clark Kent. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he had a Superman outfit at home.Is it a plane, is it a bird? No .... it's ... SuperBrown[/quote]I can categorically assure everyone that I am NOT Gordon Brown, whatever he may think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Zoff Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Sorry Clark. Unforgiveable slur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted December 11, 2008 Author Share Posted December 11, 2008 Did you hear his gaff in parliament yesterday - instead of saying he had saved the banks he said he'd 'saved the world'!! Freudian slip methinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 It's at the top of this page [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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