Nice bloke...................not.

[Bugsy]

What a Muppet.

"I told the children that Father Christmas was an invention ..........................................." he said.

Unlike religion of course, which must be true.

Kids discover the truth about Christmas soon enough, Unfortunately, it

takes many more years before they discover the truth about the b!£$%^ks

that is known as religion.

.[:@][:@]

[AnOther]

He can no more prove that then he can that God exists.

Forget money being the root of all evil, IMO religion occupies the top slot for the worst and most destructive evil the world has ever known.

Merry Christmas.

[Devon]

[quote user="ErnieY"]He can no more prove that then he can that God exists.

Forget money being the root of all evil, IMO religion occupies the top slot for the worst and most destructive evil the world has ever known.

Merry Christmas.

[/quote]

 

I am no lover of religion but weren't the nazis and communist athesists? Athesist Pol pot weren't a bundle of laughs either.

 

Edit, seems a certain German war time political party mustn't be mentioned on the forum.

[NormanH]

But surely ALL fanatically-held beliefs, whether they be  religious, political, or social are a manifestation of the same evil.

For me there is little difference between the militant atheist, the fundamentalist religious preacher (of any religion), a totalitarian dictator  and the animal rights extremist..

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="NormanH"]But surely ALL fanatically-held beliefs, whether they be  religious, political, or social are a manifestation of the same evil.

For me there is little difference between the militant atheist, the fundamentalist religious preacher (of any religion) and the animal rights extremist..

[/quote]

Too true. I have a feeling that the N-azis might have styled themselves as some sort of Christian mystics in an attempt to justify assorted genocides. But both Stalin and Mao purpouted to be atheists and they were arguably just as bad.

Anyway, Santa worship is hardly healthy is it? Teaching kids that they get something for nothing is a poor lesson in basic economics. In fact, we could go further and suggest that Santa is the evil so-and-so that manipulated people into spending way beyond their means and getting us all into this filthy mess [:)]

[Bugsy]

[quote user="The Riff-Raff Element"]

Anyway, Santa worship is hardly healthy is it? Teaching kids that they get something for nothing is a poor lesson in basic economics. In fact, we could go further and suggest that Santa is the evil so-and-so that manipulated people into spending way beyond their means and getting us all into this filthy mess [:)]

[/quote]

That's not what Father Christmas was RRE, its simply what he and it has become.

Bring back the days when you got an Orange and a Mince pie I say...............[:)]

[Will]

This sort of thing, of course, does religion no favours, whichever branch you choose to follow (or not): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/3916804/Pope-says-humanity-needs-saving-from-homosexuality.html

 

[Iceni]

[quote user="ErnieY"]
Forget money being the root of all evil, IMO religion occupies the top slot for the worst and most destructive evil the world has ever known.

[/quote]

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows - 1 Timothy 6:10

But I love my money [:(] and I am still faithful to it - so I suppose only the piercings await.

John

 

[PaulT]

[quote user="ErnieY"]He can no more prove that then he can that God exists.

Forget money being the root of all evil, IMO religion occupies the top slot for the worst and most destructive evil the world has ever known.

Merry Christmas.

[/quote]

Interesting way to sign off Ernie, wishing everyone a good religious restival

Merry mid-Winter feast

[Russethouse]

Teaching kids that they get something for nothing is a poor lesson in basic economics

They don't get something for nothing - what Santa may bring ... or not, is a useful bribe for months before hand -  a little bribery and corruption never did anyone any harm now, did it ?[;-)][;-)][;-)]

[BIG MAC]

On the other hand it develops an awareness of  possibilities and the ethos that to 'Do the right thing' may in turn have a positive outcome for themselves. Good parents will likely steer their child away from the straight risk and reward strategy to one which is more based upon the value of doing the right thing by others being in many cases it's own reward.

Taking the origins of Santa Niclaus as being a cracking golfer hence the golden balls outside shops full of golf clubs.........Hang on that's not right..

St Nicholas (As distinct from Auld Nick) being motivated by kindness rather than an awareness of his commercial potential.

Maybe ...just maybe...it's the shopkeepers that are to blame for the commercialism. Maybe just maybe....kids should be allowed to be kids and parents should be allowed to bring them up with an awareness that all that glitters isn't neccessarily gold.

The Santa story if explained to kids well is perhaps one of the best Christmas gifts they will get.......... Oh! without being overly Religious 25th December is Jesus's official birthday for those inclined to have a wee celebration. For those of other persuassions we wish you well and hope that you have an equally fun way of getting through the mid winter.

[Boiling a frog]

Am I to assume that  all the feverent anti religious  persons or atheists do not celebrate Xmas(as Big Mac says it is to celebrate the birth of Christ).

What do they do that day, how do they explain the non celebration of Xmas, or if they do how do they explain away Santa Claus , who is based on St Nicolas a Bishop in the Catholic Church, or are they just hypocrites and say nothing .

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

Am I to assume that  all the feverent anti religious  persons or atheists do not celebrate Xmas(as Big Mac says it is to celebrate the birth of Christ).

What do they do that day, how do they explain the non celebration of Xmas, or if they do how do they explain away Santa Claus , who is based on St Nicolas a Bishop in the Catholic Church, or are they just hypocrites and say nothing .

[/quote]

Is good point, jefe! Presumably atheist medical staff, atheist firefighters and atheist police officers volunteer to cover so that their "deluded" colleagues can have the day off. Or perhaps they take the day off to make a point about their secular view of the holiday and to illustrate the delusion Or maybe they do what Jehovah's witnesses do: go out tramping the streets looking miserable and knocking on doors.  Or just possibly they man the soup kitchens and shelters and do their bit. I couldn't say for sure.

[AnOther]

[quote user="P2"]Interesting way to sign off Ernie, wishing everyone a good religious restival[/quote]It's called sarcasm or irony but there is no smiley for it [:P]

Merry 'whatever it is that floats your boat' then, hows that ? [:D]

[Âme]

I think that might catch on ErnieY. [;-)] It has a certain something, je ne sais quoi, mais c'est special.

Season's greetings to one & all (except the bah humbug Padre Dino Bottino who should be a little more charitable than to trash the opposition).

[Théière]

[quote user="ErnieY"][quote user="P2"]Interesting way to sign off Ernie, wishing everyone a good religious restival[/quote]It's called sarcasm or irony but there is no smiley for it [:P]

Merry 'whatever it is that floats your boat' then, hows that ? [:D]

[/quote]

ErnieY,  is that a reference to Noah?[;-)]

[NormanH]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

Am I to assume that  all the feverent anti religious  persons or atheists do not celebrate Xmas(as Big Mac says it is to celebrate the birth of Christ).

What do they do that day, how do they explain the non celebration of Xmas, or if they do how do they explain away Santa Claus , who is based on St Nicolas a Bishop in the Catholic Church, or are they just hypocrites and say nothing .

[/quote]

Two years ago I invited a young couple who live in the flat above for a Christmas Eve supper.

They were happy to come, but as they are both Muslim they made it clear that they weren't celebrating a religious festival, just coming to share the meal with me.

No booze either, although that is less strictly respected than the rules about Halal meat among the young I know locally.

[John L]

[quote user="Bugsy"]

That's not what Father Christmas was RRE, its simply what he and it has become.

Bring back the days when you got an Orange and a Mince pie I say...............[:)]

[/quote]

So you had an Orange AND a mince pie did you?????

I used to look forward to my Rupert Annual. It wasn't my idea but I did enjoy the stories. The pictures with words underneath were really interesting in those days.

[Bluecat]

I wonder if everyone realises that the first thing most parents do is tell their children one of the biggest lies there is; that Santa exists.  Christmas used to mean something before the post-war, must have chaviness finally took hold, leaving the latter day parent being held to ransome by greed as their children, including the adult ones, are told what they need and must have by those running the great Christmas hijack.   What was wrong with the giving and receiving of homemade gifts, and a pillowcase on the end of your bed filled with delightful gifts with fruit and nuts and other little titbits that were the treat of the year and our parents lived within their means?

 

[Angelite]

Christmas is one of the Christian celebrations that have been superimposed on our old Celtic/Pagan festivals - Yule.  Even today Pagans believe in giving humble, home-made  gifts if possible, as the effort is far more important than their cost.

 

[BIG MAC]

[quote user="Bluecat"]

I wonder if everyone realises that the first thing most parents do is tell their children one of the biggest lies there is; that Santa exists.  Christmas used to mean something before the post-war, must have chaviness finally took hold, leaving the latter day parent being held to ransome by greed as their children, including the adult ones, are told what they need and must have by those running the great Christmas hijack.   What was wrong with the giving and receiving of homemade gifts, and a pillowcase on the end of your bed filled with delightful gifts with fruit and nuts and other little titbits that were the treat of the year and our parents lived within their means?

 

[/quote]

Nothing wrong at all, and if your means extend to more glamourous gifts there's nothing wrong with that either as far as I am aware. In fact the glamourous gifts may be keeping someone in a job which allows them also to fill that pillow case.

The timing of Christmas is indeed based upon a Pagan festival for two reasons 1) A midwinter festival brightens the gloom and back in the dark ages when people actually went to church the bells and smells must have been magical, this was their X Factor!) 2) Superimposed upon the Pagan festival made it very difficult to be a Pagan without being outed by the Christians (Shrewd Political move)

Why not simply instill within your Progeny the good values of  Santa Claus and explain that a fat bloke won't be arriving via the fan assisted flue to the combi boiler but there is a chance that kindness will prevail and that all the kindnesses that they themselves have shown through the year may just manifest in something nice. Santa is an image which helps portray a simple tale to young children and the image is in itself harmless, it's the values superimposed upon the image which are the problem.