An Everyday Story of Country Folk

[Gardian]

No ................ not the Archers.

For the last month or so, we've heard the merry sound of a chainsaw - nothing particularly unusual about that around here. It's a wood or forest, call it what you will, but an area where folk will cut trees. But it has been going on for longer and a lot more regularly than you'd expect, so took an (overdue) look yesterday.

An area of c.4 hectares of dense woodland has been raised to the ground. The young man doing it says that he has been contracted by the owner of the land to clear it for chauffage de bois. What's more, he said that there's another 20 hectares to go and it'll take 2 yrs! The wood is mostly oak, so readily saleable. The 'small stuff' has been piled up 2m high all over the place and represents an enormous fire risk.  "It'll rot down", he said - yes in 20 yrs or so!

So the story (apparently). The bloke who owns the land and who lives in this Commune, has some pals in a neighbouring Commune. He gave them permission to carry out La Chasse on his land, but they then ran up against our local Commune Chasse, who weren't happy. Stand-off.

The owner of the land then said "Well ********* to you, I'll make it unusable for anybody to carry out La Chasse. Oh and BTW, I'll make a few bob selling the wood".

So, an area of unspoilt woodland has been destroyed, with 5x more to come! Loads of implications - fire risk, flood risk, noise nuisance, etc, etc.

ONF (Office National de Forets), Mairie, Pompiers, etc, etc, ............ here we come!  Sheer vandalism - believe me, if you could see it, you wouldn't believe it.  Four hectares is a lot.

 

 

  

 

  

[andyh4]

Typical of small town France, Fire risk is probably reduced but environmental damage is certainly increased.

Petty arguments and small minded thinking - typical of the area I am afraid - including here.

[YCCMB]

Someone said to me a few years ago, over a minor, petty bornage..."In France, land is power". I've never heard a truer word.

[dave21478]

There is a company operating round here stripping woodland. The have a big skyline crane with a vertical boom. They run a huge steel cable into the valley they are working, and more cables to anchor the crane at the top of the valley then a remotely operated winch on this cable hauls the trunks up to the crane where an articulated arm strips and chops the trunks, then stacks them at the roadside to be trucked away, leaving a vast pile of discarded branches. Its jaw-dropping to watch them work. With only the dude operating the main rig and three guys in the valley with chainsaws felling the trees, they are capable of clearing vast areas of several hectares in just a matter of days.

The mess they leave behind is incredible. In some cases the land seems to be left to regrow and in others where it is not too steep, the owners bulldoze and plough it eventually turning it into usable farmland which is incredibly sought-after and valuable here.

[PaulT]

In Europe it seems OK to clear forested areas but if the South Americans want to do it all hell is let loose.

[Patf]

Interesting story Gardian - I can quite believe it.

From time to time we've collected small amounts of wood from the nearby woods, some for kindling, some hazel for bean supports etc.

Eventually it dawned on me to ask if this was allowed and I was told "in principle no, you haven't the right," because each section belongs to a private individual.

I thought before that that the woods belong to the commune and the people who live there.

[ventodue]

I'll be interested to hear how this develops, Gardian.  From what I understand, if he is clear felling to use the land for some purpose other than forestry, then he needs to have got an "Autorisation de défrichement".  However, if he doesn't intend using the land for a non-forestry operation, then he doesn't. Because in that case, the operation isn't considered a "défrichement" but a "déboissement".

Have a look at the link below, from which this:

"À savoir : la destruction accidentelle ou volontaire du boisement ne fait pas disparaître la destination forestière d'un terrain, si elle est suivie d'un renouvellement par replantation ou régénération naturelle. Il ne s'agit alors pas de défrichement, mais de déboisement. C'est bien le fait qu'il y ait changement de destination qui détermine s'il y a défrichement."

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/professionnels-entreprises/F31667.xhtml

[quote user="Patf"]Eventually it dawned on me to ask if this was allowed and I was told "in principle no, you haven't the right," because each section belongs to a private individual.  I thought before that that the woods belong to the commune and the people who live there. [/quote]

Hi Pat,

Most woodland in France is privately owned.  I quote:

"En effet, la forêt française est privée à 74 %, soit près de 11 millions d'hectares sur les 15 millions de la forêt française. La forêt privée occupe 20 % du territoire national."

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/For%C3%AAt_priv%C3%A9e_fran%C3%A7aise

Craig

[Gardengirl]

That's such a pity Gardian, all that woodland around you is just lovely. More power to your and your neighbours' elbows in trying to get something done about it!

[idun]

I wonder what more can be done. Is it possible to do some sort of porte plainte, could the Mairie do it, I know ours did it against X once, but they know who is behind this.

It is so sad that this has been done and how malicious. In the Lord of the Rings, Sauron and Saruman both reeked desolation and cut down all the trees, is this a sign we can all acknowledge of a really evil person.  Probably is. I wish you luck in persuing them. 

[Patf]

I don't know if it's so unusual.

Many hectares of woodland have been cleared here and used to grow the usual cereal crops. It all boils down to money - worthless woodland or valuable crop land?

[idun]

I do understand that woodland and forests are managed and woodland can be cut down, and these days hopefully replanted. But didn't the OP

suggest that the local 'on-dits' implied that this was because of

some sort of dispute between chasseurs, which is quite a different paire de manches.

[Gardian]

Thanks to all for your comments.

Ventodue - thanks in particular for that link.  I will indeed let you all know how we get on.

For us, there's no visual impact at the moment, but there might be at some later stage. Our concern is around the noise (which is irritating rather than oppressive), and the fire risk which is very real.  I have to say too that this one bloke working with a chain saw completely alone presents a serious risk to his safety - if he got injured with the saw or a falling tree, nobody would know about it until it was too late.

Above all though, its just environmental vandalism. I'm not especially 'green', but its horrible to see an area which is enjoyed by walkers and horseriders being completely destroyed and not even 'tidied up'.

The battle commences tomorrow, but I've lived here long enough now to realise that our chances are probably slim.

[basquesteve]

Is it a dispute between chasseurs, or just a landowner trying to make a profit from his land As it appears private land the owner can do as he pleases, as for tiding up best left, it will be a great site for insects and birds

Things are always changing and not always the way we would like them, I know first hand as a security guard on a number of major road bypass constructions, but in due course your tranquillity and view will return

[Gardian]

[quote user="basquesteve"]Is it a dispute between chasseurs, or just a landowner trying to make a profit from his land As it appears private land the owner can do as he pleases, as for tiding up best left, it will be a great site for insects and birds [/quote]

I suspect that its more of the latter and I also suspect that you're right and that he'll be able to carry on if he wants to. As for the "best left" over the clearance, have you any idea what the risk of fire is like in these parts? Lightning can and does strike and set fire to living trees, let alone tinder dry 'small stuff'. We've had two biggish fires within 2 kms in the last nine years, both of which have needed water bombers. Believe me, there's plenty enough insects around as it is and the birds' habitat is being wiped away by whats going on.

[quote user="basquesteve"]Things are always changing and not always the way we would like them, I know first hand as a security guard on a number of major road bypass constructions, but in due course your tranquillity and view will return[/quote]

Not sure I've got that long!!

[Pickles]

[quote user="idun"]I wonder what more can be done. Is it possible to do some sort of porte plainte, could the Mairie do it, I know ours did it against X once, but they know who is behind this.

[/quote]

Apologies for being late into this, but isn't there a requirement to keep woodland and other territory free from dead foliage and other combustible materials in order to help combat the spread of fire? I thought that there were regulations requiring "debroussaillement"

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reglementation_du_debroussaillement_ou_debroussaillage

This might be a suitable topic to bring up at the mairie ...

[Gardian]

We had our meeting with Maire this evening.

Three of 'us', Mme le Maire, her adjoint ............... And the contractors who are doing the deboisement. For two pins, I'd have walked away when I realised that they'd been invited and thinking back, should have done. It was 'us' wanting to bring our concerns to the attention of the Mairie - nothing whatsoever to do with the contractors.

It was an hour & 40 mins of near chaos. No structure to the meeting, no apparent recording of any points of agreement or diagreement, no decisions as to where we go from here. Loads of emotion!!

I asked some questions of the Maire which my neighbour tried to answer for her and I had to tell him to "Button it" and allow her to answer!

The bottom line is that the Mairie is powerless to intervene - they can do what they like. I'm going to contact the pompiers and get them to come for their view on the small dry stuff that's been left behind. We'll see, but I sensed some unease on the part of the contractors. I also asked the Maire put in writing her official position on the matter and to include the key discussion points of the meeting. Gulp !!

As many of you have said, we were almost certainly up against it. That's the way it was.

[ventodue]

Thanks for the update.  Frustrating, if not unexpected, I guess ...

Craig

[Gardian]

[quote user="Gardian"]I'm going to contact the pompiers and get them to come for their view on the small dry stuff that's been left behind. [/quote]

So, so naive on my part.

I rang the 'Service Departmentale d'Incendie et de Secours' this afternoon. This is one of the numbers printed in the little brochure covering 'Prevention des Feux de Foret'.  Spoke to a nice lady who said that it wasn't really them, but really best to ring Les Pompiers on '17'.

So I rang them, told them straightaway that it wasn't an emergency and asked for their advice and whether somebody could come out and have a look to give an opinion as to whether they shared our view as to the serious fire risk .

"Hmmmm - well, if there's a fire, then we'll come out of course, but until then .................. Non".  "Best ring the Gendarmerie - they're the ones to give a ruling as to whether there's a problem".

Rang the Gendarmerie - by now, not expecting much. Certainly didn't get much, in fact nothing. "Hmmmmm - well, if there's a fire, then after the Pompiers have put it out, then it's the land owner's fault and responsibility".

He didn't seem overly enamoured with my reply that we & our property might well be in cinders while they discussed fault & responsibility!

Onwards and upwards.

 

    

[Cendrillon]

Soooo frustrating Gardian, I really feel for you.

[idun]

I would contact your Prefecture as I found this on Yahoo France, so other prefectures should have something in place.

http://www.isere.gouv.fr/Politiques-publiques/Agriculture-foret-et-developpement-rural/Foret/Prevention-contre-les-incendies-de-forets/Plan-Departemental-de-Protection-des-Forets-contre-l-Incendie

I also found this too.

http://www.ofme.org/documents/textesdfci/Autoprotection_partie_2.pdf

[Gardian]

[quote user="idun"]I would contact your Prefecture as I found this on Yahoo France, so other prefectures should have something in place.


http://www.isere.gouv.fr/Politiques-publiques/Agriculture-foret-et-developpement-rural/Foret/Prevention-contre-les-incendies-de-forets/Plan-Departemental-de-Protection-des-Forets-contre-l-Incendie

I also found this too.

http://www.ofme.org/documents/textesdfci/Autoprotection_partie_2.pdf


[/quote]

Sorry for the delay in responding Idun.  Thanks for those links.

Yes, I've found loads of material on the Gard site and I think that we've got enough to go back and beat up our Maire over all this. Well, at least try!!

One of the attendees from our 'side' has done an excellent set of minutes from the meeting last Friday and we're going to send it off to the Mairie with some supporting documentation (particularly over the fire risk).

I really do think that the Maire's stance over this has been politically inept. How much better to have said something along these lines?  "I sympathise greatly with the problem and I will commit to making enquiries with the Prefecture over the issues you have raised. All such matters are difficult and I would urge you not to raise your hopes too high. However, I will get back to you ASAP." 

 

[idun]

You have my most sincere sympathy. In some ways it seems to be a good idea that some things are done on a very local level, but when it boils down to it many Maires are as much use as chocolate fireguards. Why too many of them don't try,  even flex their muscles a little, use common sense, find out the rules and do something about them when they are being flouted, I have no idea. 

You are quite right, a letter as you have suggested would have been a good thing to write, but they didn't, shame on them.

[Frederick]

Would the local newspapers be likely to do a few lines on the situation in the way of getting information out to the wider population who may object to the loss of the wood .

[Gardian]

That's certainly a possibility Frederick and one that has been mentioned.

It's sort-of unsaid that it would be a last resort ........... we'd simply alienate the Mairie totally and what we really want to do is present them with a case that they have to pursue legally.

In the meantime, we're busy lighting fires (so to speak) all over the Commune.