Those Greves

[idun]

I was talking to my DIL tonight about the strikes and for all she has not usually got much time for Macron, hopes that he holds out. She want France bringing into the 21st Century, properly.

She is furious with, well, I won't use the expletives she used to describe the grevistes from the SNCF and what she perceives as their greed. Their whining about unsocial hours blah di blah!

 As she has done more than her fair share of those for the SMIC as it happens, and my son actually works really anti social hours. I have, his Dad has. Lots of people do.

And then after we had put the world to rights, I put french news on, and the grevistes are going to harden their strike and I actually heard someone say, like a grave warning for ALL of France, that IF they did not win, then it would be catastrophic for France, and would affect everyone for the worse.

And that keeps turning round in my head, the idea that France as she stands, would find herself ruined, in a calamintous situation if the modernisation goes through.

I readily accept that changes do not always go through smoothly, but usually things sort themselves out in the end, but would things really end up that bad.

Maybe for some, ie: if many fonctionnaires actually found themselves au chomage, and who would care, really, would would, because many fonctionnaires are considered very privileged in France anyway, and once in, are there for life, or have been.

As it is, my son has to get to and from work and uses the train regularly and it is a nightmare at the moment. Going off to do his anti social hours, but only the cheminots count!

I do hope that Macron holds his ground, but I won't hold my breath either.

[Lehaut]

Our youngest is also at the mercy of SNCF (though it does not make much difference if they are on strike or not sometimes!!) to get home from Uni for the weekends. I agree that reforms are necessary.

The endless quest to pay less but get more, be it from the private or public sector does not work. There seems to be downward spiral of "service" everywhere. UK/France commerce are keen to take your money, but if you pull aside the curtain when it comes to sorting a problem out afterward, you see what lack of people results in.

I too hope Macron holds his ground on this and University reforms too. Though sorting the resulting problems out will be just as hard.

[Judith]

From what I understand, that whilst Macron may not be universally popular, and that there are fears that he is pushing too hard, it is also true that the strikers are not that well supported this time, even by the other unions, who have their own axes to grind.

As far as France is concerned, anyone with any level of comprehension understands that things have to change, and it is not, in the SNCF case that they will change conditions for the exiting staff, but only the new ones, as far as I have heard.  So what, that is progress, and needs must in this modern world.  How, anyone thinks that when a company is loosing so much money every year they can continue to support that is beyond my understanding of economics.

The miners strike and what happened to the mines and their jobs after it springs to mind (whether I supported it or not, the example is there), so if I were a striker I would very much be wary of eventually having no job at all if they continue along the path they seem to want to tread

Tough love and justice, but c'est la vie!

[Harnser]

Macron is an EU cheerleader. He is also a confidant of the international banking elite.

The EU wants to de-nationalise SNCF and open up the French rail network to "competition" - and their man Macron is the man to do it.

That means he wants it to end up something resembling the mess that the rail franchises are in the UK.

The worldwide financial elite see SNCF as a cash cow that is ripe to be milked - think Virgin trains in the UK!

Macron's current policy of taking on the rail unions to reduce the future benefits and hence the costs of any new staff joining is a cost reduction measure to pave the way for the future privatisation of SNCF, maybe not during his presidential term but that's what he wants to do - as sure as eggs is eggs.

[woolybanana]

Rollocks???

[andyh4]

Harnser wrote

..........................The EU wants to de-nationalise SNCF and open up the French rail network to "competition" - and their man Macron is the man to do it.

That means he wants it to end up something resembling the mess that the rail franchises are in the UK.

The worldwide financial elite see SNCF as a cash cow that is ripe to be milked - think Virgin trains in the UK!

Where is your evidence that Macron wants to follow the UK model of denationalisation?

There are other models and DB AG is doing very well thank you. Yes they too do suffer some strikes but nothing like SNCF.

[Harnser]

[quote user="andyh4"]Harnser wrote

..........................The EU wants to de-nationalise SNCF and open up the French rail network to "competition" - and their man Macron is the man to do it.

That means he wants it to end up something resembling the mess that the rail franchises are in the UK.

The worldwide financial elite see SNCF as a cash cow that is ripe to be milked - think Virgin trains in the UK!

Where is your evidence that Macron wants to follow the UK model of denationalisation?

There are other models and DB AG is doing very well thank you. Yes they too do suffer some strikes but nothing like SNCF.[/quote]

Macron will follow whichever privatisation model his banker chums want - ie whichever makes them the most in fees, interest, franchise sales etc.

[woolybanana]

Rollocks, yet again

[Gardian]

One could argue about privatisation of the railways in the UK until the cows come home !

Most rational observers would say though that it has been good - some successes, some failures. The problem of the last 20 years has been the enormous rise in passenger journeys vs an infrastructure that had had little investment.

But over to SNCF. Network TGV - fabulous. Fast, comfortable, etc. The rest of the network - decidedly iffy. Overall, a massive annual operating loss which would have led any ‘private’ company to have filed for bankruptcy years ago. It cannot continue and (it has to be said) this is what the British Govt said when it invited Beeching to review BR some 55 years ago.

The situation isn’t anywhere near the same. UK back then - an unrealistic route structure. France now - an unrealistic & unsustainable overhead.

The Unions won’t win & they know it. Its just a question of who blinks first. Lots of agony for all before that though.

[idun]

Apart from the greves there have been problems with the infrastructure for a long time now. Well, certainly where my son lives, there has.

Great that so much has been spent on TGV lines and all associated costs.

And yet lots needs fixing.?

[lindal1000]

I don't detect any great support in this area for the strikers. There have been so many strikes over the years that most people who are dependent on the services have other plans for getting to work (working from home, driving, car shares). The farmers haven't got much time for the strikers here because they have their own issues. My colleagues were a bit cynical of Macron when he first got in, but on the whole they are quite positive now.

[Lehaut]

Since SNCF was formed in 1947 there has never been a year when they have not been on strike!

[Harnser]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Rollocks, yet again[/quote]

Rather than knee-jerk ripostes - what are your reasons for rejecting what I think is inevitable?

[woolybanana]

Harsner, it was the knee jerk, lefty, rather unthought through nature of your posts which I reacted to.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Macron is in thrall to bankers or that he has the slightest intention of privatizing the SNCF.

But he is obliged by European dictat to bring a degree of competition to the railways by introducing dual services on some lines. To do this the SNCF needs to be efficient and cost effective which it aint at present. It is hugely overstaffed and anarchic in its contracts, procedures and efficiency.

Frankly, given their inability to run some rural and regional lines, a partnership between the local authorities, the SNCF and private enterprise might be the best way forward.

Already these local lines are heavily subsidized by local taxpayers, but run by an efficient state controlled staff who can think of noth8ng better than running buses instead of trains.

Plus, the taxpayer cannot go on subsidizing the lifestyle of the railways, it is just costing too much, including servicng the huge debt.

All the above are holding back much needed investment in upgrading the often archaic system.

The Germans are making a good fist of public private on the railways, why not the French?

Please note that I am not comparing with the UK system!

[richard51]

http://www.young-germany.de/topic/live/travel-location/derailing-the-train-how-intercity-buses-are-changing-the-way-we-travel-in

Seems as if buses are now used a lot in Germany too!!!!.

Whilst improvements do need to be made to SNCF and indeed other extreme French positions your anti-left viewpoint does cloud your judgement somewhat.

Giving monies to the already rich, as is your mantra, is equally, if not more, stupid.

Train services should be for the benefit of society ie a public service and not, dare I say, for the few - be it rail staff or CEOs of private companies.

[woolybanana]

Never suggested giving monies to the rich, Richard, but if the SNCF can be made efficient by a partial dose of services privatisation or competition, where the harm as the SNCF would benefit as well, as would the taxpayer.

Do not forget that it is the taxpayer who pays the bills so mantras like ‘public services’ actually means services paid for to a greater or lesser extent by the taxpayer. It is the duty of the State, an act of trust, if you like, to use that money well. The current waste of cash on the SNCF is not responsible use.

[richard51]

Why not keep it state owned and tell the workers to accept reasonable pay - including managers..

Simples.

[andyh4]

Perhaps because it is contra-EU rules on open access to the rail network.

This all centres on showing that there are no hidden subsidies for indigenous operators.

[richard51]

But isn't it a "security" issue.

[andyh4]

Security? What security?

The only thing that is secure is that there will be strikes at some time or other over a lesser or greater issue - and where CGT Marseille is concerned more often than not, lesser.

[woolybanana]

The John Lewis model has always seemed appropriate to me, but can it be adapted the state sector? Perhaps a system of envelope financing might work.

Unfortunately, with the union management structure UK and France have, I am not sure it could be implemented.